055 - From Intervention to Independence: A Story of Healing, Restoration, and Deeper Faith (with Cursty Mae)
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When you hire a midwife you expect to get more holistic care than when you hire an OB/GYN, but when your midwife is part of a hospital medical system, that’s not always the case. So next time you hire a midwife at a birth center, but even then, you’re still handing your care and responsibility over to another system that may or may not have your best interest at heart. So what do you do after two traumatic birth experiences at the hands of others? You have a wild pregnancy and a free birth, but you do it in connection with and guidance from God, a pivotal piece of the puzzle, if not THE biggest piece of it all. This is only a glimmer of Cursty’s story, tune in as she shares all four of her birth experiences among other life events that dramatically affected them all. Grab the tissues, this episode is a tear-jerking treasure.
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TRANSCRIPT:
055 - Cursty Mae
Cursty: [00:00:00] So I labored at home for three hours and then five hours at the birth center. I was sitting on the toilet and, you know, trying to work baby down. Another cervical check and the midwife, she was like, you're only at a four. And I can't believe that. I thought I was hearing something. Um, but she told me, she was like, I need to leave for vacation in a few hours and we need to have this baby.
What? And I broke down.
Kayla: Hi, I'm Kayla Heeter, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of five children, Christian childbirth educator and doula, and your host of the Surrendered Birth Stories podcast, where we share God centered birth stories, evidence based birth education, and our pursuit of surrendering our birth plans to God.
Let's get started. Hey, everyone. I'm going to [00:01:00] attempt my best. to not sound as tired as I actually am. Ooh, Indy is cutting two more teeth right now and he's my one child so far who does not handle teething well, but. We're doing some of the earthly teeth tamer and a lot of nursing and you know, we're doing our best But anyways, excuse me if I don't sound as peppy maybe as I usually do I also had a big weekend myself and um some bridesmaids and a friend all got to throw my sister's And I got to take my sister her bridal shower this weekend, so that was fun.
My sister is getting married in October, and we got to throw her a shower and hopefully help her to feel loved and adored and excited for marriage. So, that was really fun. And, uh, the weather, can you believe? Well, I don't know. It depends on where you're [00:02:00] listening to. But if you are in central North Carolina, we have been having some beautiful.
beautiful weather, just like mid seventies, maybe low eighties at the most as the high cool, crisp mornings and no rain. And just, oh, this is my favorite. This has just been the best. I absolutely love. My birthday's also in September, so I think that helps, but, oh man, bring on more September. We're here for it.
Last week was our big one year anniversary episode. I hope y'all got a chance to check that out with, uh, our walk through the first year of parenthood. If you haven't, go back and check it out. It was fun. I always love doing episodes with my husband as my husband. Uh, he's more of a co host than a guest, I guess, at that point, but that's always a good time.
And, um, but today we have our first birth story of season two, cause you know, that's what we're mostly here for are these surrendered birth stories. And I [00:03:00] am excited. extra, extra excited about this story in particular as, um, we've actually, in all of season one and all of last year, we didn't have a single free birth story.
So I'm excited to have one here today and let's go ahead and introduce this week's episode. When you hire a midwife. You expect to get more holistic care than when you hire an OB GYN. But when your midwife is part of a hospital medical system, that's not always the case. So next time, you hire a midwife at a birth center.
But even then, you're still handing your care and responsibility over to yet another system, bound by policies, that may or may not have your best interest at heart. So what do you do after two traumatic birth experiences at the hands of others? You have a wild pregnancy and a free birth, but [00:04:00]you do it in connection with and guidance from God.
And this is only the tip of Kirstie's story. Tune in as she shares all four of her birth experiences among other life events that dramatically affected them all. Grab the tissues. This episode is a tear jerking treasure.
Welcome to another episode of the Surrendered Birth Stories podcast. I am your host, Kayla Heeter, and I am excited to have our guest on today. I'm going to let you go ahead and introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about yourself, your family, your life. Let us get a picture into who you are and what your day to day is like.
Cursty: Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. This is so sweet. My name is Kirstie. I live in Madison, North Carolina. Um, my husband and I, we have been married for [00:05:00] 11 years. We have four children. Three boys and one girl, uh, ages 10, 7, 3, and then a little 16 year, or not 16, 16 month, um, month old. And yeah, we love home.
We do everything at home, pretty much. We love traveling and love, you know, exploring, but home is like always our safety net, always our home base. So we homeschool, a home birth. Uh, we have homesteaded in the past. We have a home garden. We love all things home. And it's really just like our comfort net. Um, my husband's a teacher and it was his idea for us to homeschool.
He was like, no way are kids, you know, going into certain systems. And, uh, so that's what started it. We've been homeschooling the whole time. And just really enjoying it. I love to garden. I love iced coffee. Uh, I [00:06:00] love a good farmer's market. And yeah, just like trips with the family. Just day trips out to different playgrounds, different museums.
Yeah, so that's, a little bit about us.
Kayla: Oh, that's wonderful. That sounds really very similar to us. I mean, my husband's not a teacher. He's a worship pastor, but everything else you said, I'm like, oh yeah. So do y'all have family here? You said moving back here. So did you live here before? Yes.
Cursty: Yeah. I grew up here.
I grew up in Eden and half of my childhood was spent in Eden, half in Thomasville in the Wahlberg area. Okay. And my husband and I met at High Point University He's from Rhode Island, and, but we met in college, and we lived here, we lived in Greensboro, we've lived in Eden, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and finally just bought a house in Madison, and I am hoping we are here for a while.
Uh, we are, we are We've been together 11 years and have moved [00:07:00] 11 times. Wow. And we are done for a while, hopefully, if the Lord, the Lord willing. Yeah.
Kayla: Wow. That's, that's exciting. And that is fun. And I'm glad that you are in a place where you feel like you can put some roots down and settle for a bit. Yes.
Yeah. I'm hoping so. Let's talk about your birth stories. Let's talk about your pregnancies. You've got four kiddos. So let's start with the first one. Um, what was it like finding out you were pregnant for the first time?
Cursty: Well, I was ecstatic. I was just so over the moon. I have always wanted to be a wife and a mom.
Like that was top priority for me, wife and mom. And my husband and I It took us just a few months to get married. Um, on our very first date, which we were friends before, but on our very first date, I told him, I was like, I think we're going to get married. And I want at least five kids. And he was like, yeah, let's do [00:08:00] that.
So we got married in such a rush and we were so ready to be parents. Uh, so I got, I got pregnant with Zaylin. Three months after we got married. And I thought in those three months that something was wrong with me. I was like, I'm not getting pregnant. I'm tracking everything. Why is it taking this long?
And I remember being so upset those first two months when. All the tests were negative. Uh, and then my, my cycle would come on. And then the third month, which is crazy looking back at it, because sometimes it just takes time. But the third month I took the test and I could not wait to tell Zach. He was out.
Um, he, it was in the morning. So he was off at work and. I, like, I wanted to do the surprise. I wanted to surprise Aime. And I could not wait. I was so happy. And yeah, it was sweet. It was, it was sweet.
Kayla: So knowing that you wanted [00:09:00] to, you know, get married and have kids, um, like right away, did you know like what kind of birth you wanted to have or what kind of care you wanted to seek ahead of time?
Or was that something you learned? While you were pregnant.
Cursty: Yeah, it was beforehand. I wanted a home birth and I had kind of already dove into the world of the holistic living and My husband had gotten sick when I was pregnant and that's what really sent me into that world. And so I knew right off the bat, I definitely want to have a home birth, but I was so young.
I was 23 years old and, you know, had everyone around me of like, home birth is dangerous. And like the baby's going to die and you're going to die, like all of this fear. So this is my first time doing it. And then being in North Carolina as well, I just thought, Oh, like home births are illegal, uh, which [00:10:00] is not the case, but on the outside, never knowing anybody who had home birth, not ever having that experience, I thought that that was the case.
So I decided to, I definitely wanted to be with, uh, a midwife. So we found a midwife in Greensboro and she was great, uh, during my pregnancy, you know, it was in office, but during my pregnancy, we didn't do what Anything that was recommended and she was totally on board. She was like, yeah, like your body, your baby, like, we're just here to support you.
You know, I can give you feedback, but ultimately, ultimately it's your choice. And she was great the whole pregnancy. Uh, and then we had decided At the time, Women's Hospital had had the birthing pool and kind of had like the mother's suite, so it wasn't just like this completely sterile environment. So that was our plan until I was past [00:11:00] 40 weeks, which I was with all of my babies, and the midwife got a little pushy of, you know, the baby's too big.
You're not big enough to birth this baby. I'm only 5'2 And she was saying they, they'd done an ultrasound and measured him at 11 pounds and which he was chunky. He was almost 10 pounds, but he was not 11. And so she was like, I was 40 weeks and six days. And I went in the office for, like, the not, like, the stress test.
Non stress test. Yeah, the non stress test. And she had, you know, I was, the baby was too big. I was too little. The baby wasn't moving as much in my belly as she wanted him to. Which of course he wasn't because he was so squished in there and I hadn't felt a single contraction. There was no Braxton Hicks.
There, there was no sign of anything, no dilation, no mucus, like [00:12:00] nothing. So she told me, she was like, you know, we need to get this baby out. And only because he was big, he was big. Yeah. And he wasn't moving. Yeah. She was like, you know, he, what, he's not moving as much. Yeah. Um, and so it kind of scared me. I was like, okay, you know, is, am I really putting my baby at risk?
And, um, you know, and she wasn't, she was very kind with it. She was like, you know, listen, we can either get you to the hospital and do a C section like right now to get him out. Or, I can start you on Pitocin, but you're a first time mom, and you have no contractions. You have nothing that tells me that, you know, your body's starting labor.
And so we can do the Pitocin, and it's going to really hurt. The contractions are going to hurt. It's going to take probably at least 24 hours, [00:13:00] and you'll probably end up with a C section anyways. The midwife said all of this? A medical midwife. Yes. Yeah. And wow. So yeah. And, and now I know there is a difference there.
There, yeah. You know, so here I am, like I just turned 24 and, and I'm anxious for this baby. Like I am like waiting day and night for this baby. And I think just like the fear from her mixed with like the fear from my family and the excitement of wanting him so bad. I was like, yeah, well, the Pitocin sounds like a really horrible experience.
So let's do the C section. And I agreed to that. And we went to the hospital and he was in my arms like an hour later. Wow. Like it was very fast. And, um, and we actually, we had a nice. hospital stay. Like it wasn't bad. Um, everyone was very respectful of, you know, what we wanted to do, what we didn't want to do.
[00:14:00] And I was so overjoyed with this baby, like having my baby that, I mean, I was just on cloud nine and it didn't even matter who said what or who did what it was. I was just so busy in the, the newness of it and the excitement of it.
Kayla: Wow. I mean, I don't know your birth story. So I'm just like, Whoa, we went from planning a home birth to a hospital to a C section in like an hour.
Cursty: Yeah, no, it was very, it was very quick. And I think maybe if I had sat on it a little bit longer and if I was more knowledgeable about it, and if I had someone in my corner saying your baby isn't, you're not putting your baby at risk. May you know, maybe I would have chosen like, okay, let me just get something to eat and go home and I'll think about this.
Yeah, but it, it really sounded, it was like the nurse in the midwife for very much [00:15:00] like your baby's not moving. Your baby's too big. You can't birth your baby. And then the Pitocin scared me to death. Like I never wanted any of that. That. like completely terrified me. So to me, the lesser of two evils was just going with the c section.
And yeah, so it was completely different than I thought. I didn't prepare whatsoever. Uh, looking back now, I wish I would have known, you know, to do like the vaginal swabbing after the baby was born for the baby, like to be put on my skin, not on a, Cold table with all these lights and strangers around. So I would have done things a little bit different, but a C section wasn't even in my mind.
I was so healthy, had the best pregnancy. Um, baby was healthy. So to me it was like, well, I don't even need to think about a C section. So I never researched it. I, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know that they did like a spinal. I didn't know you had to drink something. I [00:16:00] had no idea. Yeah. And yeah, it was, it was like a shock.
It, I think I was just kind of thrown into that and which I did choose the C section versus the Pitocin and now I know I could have said no to both, but being so young and first time mom, I just didn't know, you know, I had a, a voice like that.
Kayla: Yeah. I mean, I know you said you were so happy like to have your son, but how do you feel like any of that played into your postpartum at all or did your postpartum go pretty smoothly?
Cursty: Absolutely. It played. My postpartum was rough. Like in the hospital, we were surrounded by all of the family. They were there day and night and we had help with Salem. Like everyone was holding him. Um, I did not bond with him. It took a few months for me to really bond with him. It felt like So many people were holding him, not me.
I had a hard time breastfeeding, even with the lactation consultant. [00:17:00] Uh, the lactation consultant offered me formula. The pediatrician offered me formula. My doctor, of course, it's like the newness, it's the hormones, everything. I was just handed over like, Hey, you need to see someone and get a depression medicine.
And It didn't feel right. Like it didn't feel like this is what it's supposed to feel like, but I didn't know, I just didn't know better. And so I did all the things. I breastfed fine the first like two weeks and then it just. Completely went downhill and we switched a formula and also I don't think my body didn't even know like he was being taken via a C section.
So my body was just like, you know, nourishing this baby, protecting this baby, baby's out. And I don't, I don't think it, well, I know it took a while for my body to catch up for my hormones and my mind really to, to [00:18:00] adjust to that. And I was so in disbelief that someone would let me take home a baby. Like we did the parenting classes.
Um, I, I was an older sibling, so I always took care of my siblings growing up. I knew the basics of a baby, but as far as like connecting with this baby and really knowing what to do, like my husband and I, we, we, it's so silly now, but looking back, we thought that someone had to be awake with the baby at all times.
We didn't know that we could sleep with the baby, like sleep while the baby's sleeping. So we took these shifts. And like two to three hours shifts. So our sleep is completely broken. My husband was also sick at the time. He is let his liver failed. And so he was so tired. He was so exhausted. And then we had my in law staying with us in this really tiny house.
We had, it was a revolving [00:19:00] door of people in and out friends, family. And I wasn't nourishing myself. And it was rough. It was really rough. And probably two to three months in, it just felt like, who is this baby? And is this really mine? And are, did someone really let me have my baby? And it was, it was pretty rough.
And I'd say probably like, you know, maybe six to eight weeks. I kind of evened out a little bit and then it was like the excitement again of like he's mine and no one's ever taken him and you know what a gift he is and I don't know what that past two to three months was that was crazy it was wild but like now like I can start being the mother that I've always wanted to be so it did take a little while to adjust.
Kayla: Yeah I'm sure I mean all those factors you throw them all together and that's gonna be. A difficult, postpartum, a difficult bonding [00:20:00] experience for sure. Yeah! So, now, he's a few months old. And you said you wanted five kids, um, so, so how long, um, did y'all go in between your first and second child?
Cursty: So Zalen, he was a little over a year old.
I'd probably say maybe 15 months. I found out I was pregnant again and was So crazy over the moon again, like just so excited. And a few weeks later, even before I had gotten care, um, I ended up bleeding and I just thought, you know, I looked it up online, like, can you have a period when you're pregnant?
And you know, online is like, you know, sure you can have a period or you can spot, but it was a very intense. period. A lot of cramping and I was in a [00:21:00] very stressful family situation during this time, um, which I think contributed to it. But it was very intense. A lot of cramping, a lot of blood, like big chunks of blood.
And it hit me that that wasn't a period. Like that's when it hit of like, That's my baby. And, and yeah, but it was, it was so fast and I was in such a stressful situation, um, staying with different family members while we were in transition for a move. And I kind of just stuffed it down. Like, you know, my, my husband and I talked about it and, and yeah, I don't.
I don't really like talk about it still, like if people ask me, you know, how many kids do you have, like I have four, like that was the, if we found out we were pregnant, you know, I was pregnant and then I think it was like three or four weeks later was this [00:22:00] miscarriage and so that like that was tough, but I don't think I really dealt with it until years afterwards.
Kayla: Yeah. Was it just something that came up all of a sudden several years later, or was it something that you gradually worked on over the years?
Cursty: Uh, I think it, it maybe just came on all of a sudden. Cause it was, we were in the transition of a move. We were, it was so busy. It was such a busy time. Such a, a stressful time.
I mean, I was. so stressed out. And I think that, well, I know that that's what contributed to it. And yeah, but I think we, I kind of just like stuffed it down and was just like, okay, well the baby was just a few weeks old, you know? And I didn't like, I didn't see anything and it wasn't like I went into the hospital, my belly wasn't showing.
And so [00:23:00] yeah, I kind of just like wrote it off and didn't really grieve. Like that was a baby. Like that was a My child, my baby, until years later, when, when I really sat with it and, and processed that.
Kayla: I'm glad you were able to process that eventually. Yeah. Years later. Okay. So then after the miscarriage, I mean, you ended up getting pregnant again.
How, how old was your son at that point then?
Cursty: Yeah. He was. He, he was two. So he was, when my second son Abram was born, Zalen was three years and two months. Um, so he was, he would have been two when I found out I was pregnant.
Kayla: And so were these pregnancies ones that you were planning or were they just sort of like, they just kind of happened?
Cursty: Yeah, well, we were not doing anything to stop any pregnancy and, you know, and I was looking forward to being [00:24:00] pregnant again. I was very, very happy to be pregnant again. And so, yeah,
Kayla: we
Cursty: were
Kayla: active in that. So then, knowing what happened the first time, did you do anything differently the second time in terms of like seeking care or?
knowing like where you wanted to deliver what you wanted to do?
Cursty: Yep, so we were back in North Carolina at that time and I knew I did not want a c section. I absolutely knew I wanted a VBAC and I did not want it to be in a hospital but I was also still unsure about the legalities of a home birth and at the time I did not know that like Facebook home birth groups existed.
I didn't know anybody who had had a home birth. All I could read was what was online, which is, you know, home birth is illegal here, which we know it's not, but just reading what's on Google, um, [00:25:00] I still didn't feel like I had a chance with that. So we looked up a birth center and that's what we had planned.
And, and I still wanted a midwife. I wanted care, but I still didn't, At that point, it still didn't even register that I had had a miscarriage. Um, it, it was such a short window between finding out and the loss. And like I said, I just kind of stuffed it down. It, it didn't really like hit me what had happened.
And, so yeah, we had sought out a midwife and we ended up at a, a birth center in, in North Carolina.
Kayla: Which birth center? Because this would have been seven years ago? Yeah, he just turned seven,
Cursty: uh, yesterday, or two days ago. Um, yeah, so it was, uh, natural beginnings.
Kayla: Okay, and were they allowed to do VBACs back then?
They were. Yes. Okay. Well, that's good because I think that has changed in the [00:26:00] recent years. I believe so.
Cursty: Mm hmm.
Kayla: So, how was your care and your pregnancy and your experience like with the birth center midwife versus when you had the hospital midwife, especially when you went over 40 weeks? Sure.
Cursty: Well, the care really wasn't, you know, that off.
It was, it was very similar. There was one midwife that I loved, like absolutely loved, and there you have to switch around. You have to see them all. There were two that I was not crazy about, and one I definitely did not want to birth with, but the other one, it was just like, well, you know, we don't really see eye to eye, but I can, like, she can be there.
That's fine. Yeah, the care was the same, pretty much, uh, they were very respectful of our wishes during pregnancy, during birth, and yeah, yeah, the care was really nice.
Kayla: [00:27:00] So then, how late into the pregnancy did you end up going before you went into labor?
Cursty: So I was 41 weeks and 5 days, and they would not allow me to birth past 42 weeks.
So at that point, you know, we were, I didn't do anything. I just did a lot of walking and like squatting. Um, I didn't know about like cocktails or all like midwife's brew. I was just like, well, I'll walk. Like baby has to come out. Uh, but we were getting closer and I was getting a little anxious of like, okay, what's going to happen if I go past 42 weeks?
Cause I definitely did not want to be in a hospital again, but it was 41 weeks and five days and I, the day before we started, or I started contractions and knew that that was it. And I was at home most of the time. I felt so good [00:28:00] at home. Like I felt like I could just birth the baby. We had some family over.
I was in contact with my doula about it, and it was a really bad storm. We were an hour away from the birth center. One of the worst storms I have ever experienced to still to this day, my husband is like half blind without glasses, , and he had to drive. So it was at night. It was maybe. Maybe midnight, whenever we decided to go in.
So here we are, I am in like full on labor and the passenger seat, giving my husband directions through the rain, like through the storm. And it took us a long time to get there, but we ended up getting there. And that's when things shifted for me. That's when I started feeling pain and I was not prepared for [00:29:00] that.
Like I. Looking back, I'm like, what was I doing the whole pregnancy? Cause I didn't know that it was going to be so intense and so painful. I just thought like, Oh, women do it. Women give birth. Like I can give birth. And that's crazy to say after, you know, on my second child that I still didn't even know what to expect.
Kayla: Really. Had you taken any classes or read any books or anything?
Cursty: Oh yeah. No, we have read the books and you know, I heard that, you know, the, that there would be pain. But to me, it was just like, Oh, it's just going to be pain. I did not know it was like a whole body, like completely crushing experience. And I did not ever lean into the spiritual side of it.
Uh, the emotional, the mental, I was just like, Oh, this is body. Like, I can just deal with the body thing.
Kayla: And
Cursty: which is crazy. Like, it's,
Kayla: I thought I was prepared and I was not. [00:30:00] I mean, I think the mental, emotional, and spiritual side is like 90 percent of it. And the body is like 10 percent of it.
Cursty: It is. It's so true.
It really is. And looking back, you know, after four, it, I can definitely say that is the truth. But yeah, once we got to the birth center, I shut down. One of the midwives that I wasn't bond of was there. And there was like three or four nurses. I don't even remember that. I don't even remember ever seeing in practice.
Like they were so new. So I'm trying, I'm like in labor land, like trying to stay there, work the baby down. There were so many cervical checks and like, I just kept getting pulled out of labor land and into the room and so many questions. So much talking and I could, I, I was just completely pulled out of it.
I think this was at like five [00:31:00] in the morning. So I labored at home for three hours and then five hours at the birth center. I was sitting on the toilet. And, you know, trying to work baby down another cervical check and the midwife, she was like, you're only at a four. And I can't believe that I thought I was hearing something.
Um, but she told me, she was like, I need to leave for vacation in a few hours and we need to have this baby. I broke down, I broke down, like scream crying. I was like, just take me to the hospital. I don't even care. Like I just want the baby out. I can't be here anymore. So my husband took me to the hospital and it's, you know, it's right by there.
Um, and. So he drove me. As soon as we get there, the midwife that I loved met us there at the door of the ER. Like, she got there within five minutes. My water broke, and we got back [00:32:00] to the, the birthing unit, and the doctor comes in. And he's like, well, your baby's, it was another cervical check, and he was like, well, your baby is here, but he's stuck, so they needed, he said they needed to use the vacuum.
Kayla: Wait, so you went from four centimeters to your water breaking to the baby being like right there, were you completely dilated?
Cursty: Yeah, yeah, he was like totally there.
Kayla: Um, wow. With just
Cursty: a few minutes, yeah. And, which is crazy because that's how my other births went. Dilation was very, very fast. But yeah, I, so I really couldn't believe That, that's what I kind of questioned.
Like, did she just say that? Like, you know, did that really just happen?
Kayla: Um. And that plays into the mental game of birth. Like, then, now you have all this pressure on you because now it seems like someone else needs you to have your baby for, like, for their [00:33:00] convenience. Yeah. And. The pressure that that adds to the situation already.
I just, I'm, I'm astounded. Well, we will show her grace and say that she made a mistake and hopefully has not done that ever since, but that I'm sure that had like an everlasting impact on you.
Cursty: It did. Yeah. And I, you know, I worked through it and it was what it was. And I think that having the birth that I did in the hospital went on to give my other children a different birth.
So, I mean, it all worked out. And yeah, it was just crazy at the time. It was a pretty big deal. Uh, intense whirlwind.
Kayla: So you're at the hospital, and you're with the midwife and the midwife you love, and you're with the doctor, and he says, well, your baby's right here. But he's stuck. Yeah, he was like, he's right here.
He's just stuck. Had you started pushing?
Cursty: No. [00:34:00] No. There was no pushing. So how did he know
Kayla: he was stuck?
Cursty: Yeah. I don't know if it was like a lip or like the cervical lip or something. But yeah, he did a cervical check and baby was like right there. Um, and this is a lot of my husband. I, I don't even remember, like, I remember being there, but I don't remember anything that was like in that moment.
There was so much pain. It was so intense. I've got so many people around me, the bright lights, and I just want this baby out. Um, and I, I was kind of just like, take me in. I'll have a C section if I'm not dilating. Uh, but my, my water broke literally as soon as I stepped out of the vehicle. And, um, and the, the midwife met me right there at the, the ER doors.
They wheeled me back and the doctor came in, did the check and he was like, baby stuck. And I think they got, they got me to try to push. So I'm like on my back [00:35:00] trying to push, but I think it was like just a minute maybe. And he was like, we need to use the vacuum. So they did the vacuum. And even then I had no idea what that was, because it wasn't even anything that I thought I needed to prepare for.
And so they did that. Um, I pushed maybe another minute, like it, it was very quick. It happened very, very quick. From the time I got there to had him was like five minutes. Wow. It was, it was all very, very quick and intense. Um. So he came out and again, they didn't, I don't know if it was like his breathing or because of the vacuum.
I left that hospital and like never looked back. I never looked at charts. I never asked questions. We just needed to get out of there. But looking back, they didn't give him to me right away, which is what I wanted. Wanted, but the nurse was being very rough with him. Like she was like tossing [00:36:00]him almost, um, like laying him on the table, lifting him up to check him.
And I just remember, because I was crying at this point. I'm like, like, I just need my baby. Like what just happened? Give me my baby. So I'm like, like, be easy, be gentle, be gentle. And she just snaps at me. And it's like, I've been doing this a lot longer than you have. And so my doula's there, my midwife's there, like, they're like calming me down.
And the midwife did step in and she was like, no, like give her her baby. So she ended up giving me the baby and the, the hospital stay was rough. Like I. I was fine. Baby was fine. They did all the checks, but I wanted to get out of there. I didn't feel good there. I did not feel safe there. The nurses were rude.
Um, one questioned why I wasn't wearing clothes. The same day that I gave birth, uh, I just stayed naked in the bed. And she told me, she was like, you know, you can put a bra on or like you can [00:37:00] put a top on. And, and here I am like, I've never given birth before. Uh, this is all brand new to me. I've just had a C section and, which is a form of birth, but I've never physically pushed out a baby.
And. I wanted to breastfeed so bad, like so bad because my previous relationship with breastfeeding wasn't well. And I was like, well, you know, baby has to be on my boob. Like, why would I put a bra on? And then the pediatrician was like, awful, like so awful. And he was like, the choices you're making are the worst choices you'll ever make.
Very condescending. And I told my, and we were about to move again. We moved through when he was three weeks old. So I told my husband, I was like, we have got to get out of this hospital. Like you need to get us our discharge papers. And we did, they did let us leave a day early than what they would have kept us.
But, um, I, there [00:38:00] was some days I even turned my phone off because I was like, they're coming to get my baby. The pediatrician didn't like what I was doing. The nurses didn't like what I was doing. They're coming to get my baby. What are
Kayla: they not like that you were doing?
Cursty: Well, the clothes. Like, the clothes for this one nurse was very, like Like,
Kayla: the fact that you were naked because you just gave birth and you wanted to lay skin to skin with your baby with a blanket over you?
Cursty: Yes. Yeah. And that was, like, it was so hard. It was so hard because I I don't
Kayla: put clothes on for, like, the first three days after I give birth.
Cursty: Yeah, and it was, uh, it was just a scary situation, you know, we had declined certain things and the pediatrician was just like, well, why? Well, why? Well, what's your reasoning?
Well, you know, you're going to hurt your baby. Well, if you don't do this, you're going to hurt your baby. And his final words were like, what you're doing is the worst decision you'll ever make. And that was the point where I was [00:39:00] like, I don't feel like me and my baby are safe here. And, uh, so yeah, we ended up leaving and I like turned my phone off.
Um, cause I was like, they're going to call, they're going to find out where we live. I thought about like going to space with someone for three weeks. Like I, my mind was, A storm. Like an absolute storm. Uh, and then we ended up moving three weeks later, uh, to Rhode Island. And once I got there, you know, I was able to, to mellow out a little bit.
But those, those first few weeks were, again, pretty, pretty rough.
Kayla: Gosh. I am, I am so sorry that happened to you. Yeah, thank you. I can't. Just, I mean, you, you literally just went through one of the most. Like, transformative experiences someone can go through in life, and it's such a sacred time and [00:40:00] space, and that first minute, that first hour, that first day, that first week, it's like.
It goes by so fast and so slow at the same time because it's just such a surreal experience and to know that you were having to defend yourself and advocate for yourself and combat people the whole time and I'm just I'm so sorry that that happened Thank
Cursty: you. Yeah, it, it, it, it was a huge lesson, though, a very huge lesson because when we, when I had gotten pregnant my, the next time, I was like, no way.
Like no way is anyone ever hurting me or my baby, or ruining. So like, the most sacred experience in life here on earth, no one's taken that away again. And so that's what led me to my, for my third baby, uh, I had a wild [00:41:00] pregnancy and a free birth at home and it was the most beautiful, like single most healing experience of my entire life.
Kayla: Wow. Tell me, tell us all about it. Tell, first of all, explain, cause some people don't know. What a wild pregnancy or a free birth is. So can you go ahead and tell them what that is just so everyone's on the same page and then I want to hear every detail.
Cursty: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, for a wild pregnancy, it is not having any outside medicalized care, uh, or at least to me, that's what it was.
I did see a chiropractor throughout pregnancy and I did take care of myself. I took all of my measurements, uh, fundal height. weight growth, you know, checked on swelling, did the blood pressure, oxygen reading, uh, the urine sticks. I did everything myself at home and it was a perfect pregnancy. Like [00:42:00] I had not a single stress in the world.
Uh, we were living in Rhode Island. We're just at the beaches every day. It was so healing, like it was so healing. And He was my latest baby. Oh, you know, when, when didn't find out the gender, no ultrasounds and we had laid the babies down to sleep, I had him the morning I was 42 weeks and two days. So I went into labor the night before, again, had an eight hour labor and my husband and I, we laid the boys down, went out into our woods for this walk together.
under the stars, just like breathing in this fresh air. I just had on like the most relaxing muumuu and I was just like, I would stop and like hold on to his arms and there was no pain, like it was just like a tightening and it was beautiful. I was like, this is what I've wanted. Like this is it. [00:43:00] So, and this time I did prepare a lot better for like what labor is.
And this is the pregnancy that I discovered Wapio the Matrona's Holistic Stages of Labor, which it's free on YouTube to watch. The way she describes labor, I've never heard anything that comes that close to it. It is absolutely beautiful and I, I highly recommend that to any pregnant mother. Um, she, she really details and she outlines.
how labor is like climbing a mountain. And, uh, so I was ready for it. And whatever I was reading, whatever I was digesting, I read all of Heather Baker's books, um, and her podcast on, uh, unassisted home births. So I was ready for transition. I was telling my husband, I was like, during transition, I'm gonna say, I'm dying.
But I'm not. I'm just in transition. So just tell me, Kirstie, you're in transition. [00:44:00] And I was like, even if I say to call somebody, don't call them because I'm just in transition. So I went upstairs. I had the most insanely beautiful bathroom with a clawfoot tub that overlooked the back of our property. Um, I had the window open.
I had the essential oils going. the music going, I had, uh, worship music on in the background, and I was just in the tub, like, completely lost in labor land. My husband even slept the whole time, like, I needed nothing, I just wanted to be alone. And then, transition hit, and I caught my husband. And I was like, Zach, I'm dying.
And he was like, no, you said this is transition. And I'm like, no, I'm literally dying. And I'm on the edge of the tub, like screaming. I don't know how the kids stayed asleep. I am screaming. I'm hitting the tub. And I'm like, no, this isn't supposed to feel like this. I'm actually [00:45:00] dying. Like you need to call somebody.
But he was doing what I told him to do. He was like, no, I'm not going to call because you said not to call because you said you would feel like you're dying, but you're not really dying. And we were actually to get we were able to get a good laugh out of it later. But I'm like, no, this is it. Like tell the boys I love them.
I literally thought I was dying. And so he was like, okay, like maybe I should call like the ambulance. So he ended up calling the EMS and three guys like came into the door and like in the doorway, didn't even like get through the doorway. They were at the doorway and it all stopped. It was so peaceful.
And I was like, Oh, wait, that was just transition. I'm not dying. I'm going to have my baby. And the guys start, like, getting their bags out and I said, No, Lin, no, just watch me. And I felt a few waves go through in the shower. I sat on the toilet for just a few [00:46:00] waves. And it was so sweet. One of, it was an older guy and two younger guys.
And the younger guy goes, Oh, I think you're gonna push better if you're on your back. And Zach looks at him. And I, I just held my hand up and I was like, No, no, no, like, Just watch, just watch me. And then I get down on the floor, I'm leaning over the birth ball, and in the most gentlest put, it wasn't even a push, it was just like a big deep breath, Zach caught our baby and handed him to me.
And that moment was like the most healing thing. This side of heaven that I've ever, ever experienced. Um, and I got up, I walked to my bed, immediately nursed. And everyone's crying. I'm bawling. My husband's crying. Um, all three of the grown men, EMSs, are like, they are losing it. [00:47:00] And the older guy just told me, he was like, Wow.
Thank you for letting us witness that and the other two had never seen a birth before, had ever seen a birth and so that was their first experience of birth and in essence that was Zach and I's first experience of birth and, um, and they left like they were like, That was beautiful, like, take care, and they left, and I was thinking on what Wapio the Matrona is, is saying in some of her, her talks of how she as a midwife just sits back, and she's like, the mother just wants a witness.
The mother just needs a witness. She doesn't need anybody. She doesn't need anything. She just wants a witness to, to, to witness that she's doing it, that she can do it, that she's capable of doing it. And it was just such a beautiful moment that [00:48:00] even technically maybe that wasn't a free birth. I think that the free birth definition is like absolutely no one present at birth.
I think at that point, I almost slipped into just an unassisted, like there was no assistance. There was, um, there was only witnesses. And it was just so healing. It was so beautiful and so healing. And I really, I, I can't even think about that moment without getting emotional still almost four years later, um, because I was like, I did it, did it like I did what my body was created and designed to do so well and so beautifully and I can do anything like I can absolutely do anything.
And so that was our third and it. I mean, it, it completely changed me. It completely changed me. [00:49:00]
Kayla: Wow. I'm, I'm over here with all the goosebumps and just thinking about everything. You absolutely did have a free birth. That was a total free birth. And I'm, I'm just in awe of you and so happy for you and for God's redemption in that and how he was able to help orchestrate that and how everything went so smoothly.
Do you feel like throughout the pregnancy and then the labor and birth, do you feel like God was giving you peace and giving you confirmation that like, this is what you're supposed to do and this is how it's supposed to go? Like how did your, what did your prayer life look like throughout that pregnancy and birth?
Cursty: Yeah. God was in control of everything. And, and I think that that was really such a difference in that birth and in that pregnancy too, was because it was just me, because I alone was taking [00:50:00] responsibility for my birth and my pregnancy and what was going to happen. I think, or I know that I put more faith and trust in God than I had in my other two pregnancies where I.
more or less handed over responsibility and trust and faith in the midwife or the nurses or the system. And this was, it was a complete leap of faith. I mean, I had to hand it all over to him because none of it was me. None of it was my doing. Um, I was only the vessel for him to bring forth life through my body, which he designed so wonderfully and so fearfully, uh, and perfectly.
And that moment to that, you know, that jump of faith of, Hey, you know, God created me for this, like for this exact moment, this is my entire purpose is to, to be a wife and a mother and to birth, um, you [00:51:00] know, and he, he helped me the entire way through. And it was such a praise to him, such a testament to him.
And. really, like, we wanted all glory to go to him. It was none of my doing. And, you know, friends or family would, you know, tell me afterwards. So we really didn't tell that many people what we were doing. Um, you know, they told me afterwards, you know, you're so brave, or, you know, I can't believe you did that.
And for us, like our response was just, yeah, but God, but God and, you know, all glory to him for, for holding us and sustaining us through that process.
Kayla: Yeah. I don't know about you, but I, um, I had my first in hospital and then I had two at the birth center and then my fourth one, my fourth one was my first home birth and it, for me was, you know, my favorite birth experience and the best night of my [00:52:00] life and, um, just absolutely incredible.
And I feel like after that moment and after, you know, I had him and I was holding him, It was like, I could do that a hundred times.
Cursty: Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah, I had the exact same. Like, I was ready that day.
Kayla: Yeah.
Cursty: And even through transition, Zach told me it was only like 15 minutes. And I'm like, I can do anything for 15 minutes, like the rest of it was so smooth, like so smooth, not a single pain, not a single worry or fear.
It was just that 15 minutes transition. And then even like the, the birth process of him coming out was like, I tore a little bit, but it was, I mean, holding him and, and seeing what my body had just done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None of that mattered whatsoever. It was all completely gone. Um, [00:53:00] and I find that comparison to with the salvation through Christ of, you know, we have this, this old life and, but when we decide to accept Christ as our savior, um, and believe and have faith in him.
That, that old life is completely wiped away. It's completely forgiven. And, you know, everything we've done is thrown as far as the east is from the west. And, and I think birth is, is, has a similar parallel to salvation. Whatever we have now, it doesn't even matter what was in the past because look how beautiful, like this thing is right here in front of us.
Kayla: Oh, I love that. I love that analogy. So then I imagine your next pregnancy was at home.
Cursty: Oh, yeah.
Kayla: Oh, yeah. So, okay. So tell us about that one. Tell us about baby number four.
Cursty: Yeah, baby number four. [00:54:00] Um, it was a little bit different. Um, my sister had just died at 29 years old and I was in the absolute thickest of the worst type of grief and my husband and I had really our marriage had died like completely died and We were in the process of moving back to North Carolina.
We were still in Rhode Island at this point, and we had planned on really separating, like once we got here, we would live separate and, you know, and just try it out, you know, maybe just try to date again, or maybe just try to be friends again. And then I found out I was pregnant. And I, I wasn't excited at first.
It really, I was excited like that same day. Um, but at the beginning, whenever I first initially found out, I was like, What am I going to [00:55:00] do as a single mom of four? Like what? Like, I can't do that. I can't do that. Like I have to have him, you know, we have to make this work. And I kind of freaked out. I definitely freaked out.
Um, I, I wasn't sure how I would handle it, you know, and all, all sorts of thoughts popped up of, you know, I can just live with family or I can just, you know, ask for this or I'll get help this way. And I was going to make it work, but I was just scared. And so the first few weeks of pregnancy, you know, I did get very excited before this baby.
I, you know, it was a baby, it was a gift. And how, how would I ever turn away a gift from the Lord? They are, they are so precious. But after a few weeks that, that kind of fear mixed with like, I don't know what I'm doing mixed with excitement turned into hope. Like, okay, If I wasn't pregnant with this baby, my husband and I would have [00:56:00] separated.
And, you know, it might've not been permanent, but it would have at least been temporary, uh, but there's hope. Like we have this baby, like we have to stay together. We're married and, you know, we, we built this family and because of this baby, we decided to stay together. And, and it was hard. And two years later, it's still, you know, we're still on the up and on the healing from that, but I felt such hope, like such hope of like, okay, like we can do, like, we can make the marriage work.
We're just two people and we hit a hard time, but like, we've got this. And then we have this new life and we're both so excited for it. And like this baby, she was almost the glue. Like the, the glue to keeping everything just so whole, but because of the grief of the death of my sister and the grief of the death of my marriage mixed with wanting to rebuild my marriage and trying that [00:57:00] also with a 700 mile move with three kids, I was like, I need some support.
My family did not want another home birth. Like they were very adamant about that. Being away for, for five years. We move back almost with like no real connections or friendships. We've had to rebuild those over, over being here. Uh, so I didn't have a support system and that's what led me to choose a midwife.
So we found a home birth midwife and she was phenomenal. Her care was incredible, absolutely incredible. And it wasn't only just care for the baby. It was care for me. And care for our marriage. Like she was completely praying over our marriage. And every time we saw each other, you know, what's going on, how are you today?
How is he today? She would even talk to my husband and I felt like I could really be. raw with her and [00:58:00] vulnerable. And she had a team praying for us. She was completely rooting us on and, uh, and just loved me and loved our, our marriage and our family. And so it was a really nice fit. And I'm really glad I decided to get that support during this pregnancy and birth.
Kayla: Wow. Okay. So you are pregnant with your fourth. You just moved back home ish but are reestablishing, you know, connections. You have three small children. You are rebuilding your marriage. You're in grief over the death of your sister. Like, that is so many things that Yeah. are just like stacked on top of each other.
And yet this pregnancy is such a blessing and such a joy and such like the thing that feels like God used to get you through that time and to push you forward and to save your [00:59:00] marriage. So then how did it all go down? How far along were you when you went into labor and How did everything unfold?
Cursty: Yeah, so I was 40 weeks and six days whenever I had our fourth baby.
It was a Sunday morning. 12 36 is right after midnight and it was a beautiful labor. Absolutely beautiful labor. We had a hot tub set up. Uh, we didn't have the heat going, but like the bubbles, like it was all there. My husband took the kids to a birthday party and I felt like going, I was a little crampy.
But all my babies had been so late. I wasn't expecting this baby. I was like, Oh, you know, don't get in my head. I still have like two weeks left. Um, but I was, I was pretty crampy. So I told my husband, I was like, you know, I think I'm just going to stay here. And I would go two hours without a contraction and then would have [01:00:00] two or three that were five minutes apart.
Like, it never progressed. It was just so random. And I was updating my midwife, and in all of her experience, I mean, she'd been doing this as long as I'd been alive, and she was like, oh, you know, we still have time. They're not really picking up. But I told her, you know, I, you know, I have a feeling it's going to be soon, you know, within the next few days, but I'm just going to keep you updated.
And then at eight 30 that night, I had two that were two minutes apart and I had to stop and like, hold on to a chair. So I told my husband, I think this is it, but I don't want her to drive 40 minutes for it to not be it. Uh, but we ended up updating her anyways, and she was like, you know, I'll just come over just in case it's not a big deal.
So she ends up coming over. And my sister came over, my other sister, um, she lived a few houses down on the same road. [01:01:00] So she ended up coming over to help me get the kids in bed. She was helping just get towels ready, like get those things ready just in case. But I still in my mind, I was like, this is all false.
Like this isn't, I'm not having this baby, um, or at least not tonight. And then so we were all just talking. The midwife asked to do a cervical check and I love that she asked. I love that it wasn't just assumed if we need to do a cervical check. She was, she was just curious, you know, where, where are you?
You know, what are we doing? Um, this was at 11 o'clock. I was dilated to a four and she was like, okay, you know, we still have all night. We have all morning. You'll probably have this baby like tomorrow afternoon, tomorrow evening. And I had a contraction that almost put me to my knees. And I was like, okay, that was, that was big.
That was a big contraction. I'm just going to get in the water. So get in the water [01:02:00] completely in labor land, like just so lost in that. And there It was maybe, Zach said it was probably about a five minute time period where I was in a deeper moan, and before then there was zero pain, um, a little like tightening, a little discomfort, but again like zero pain, but there, There, he said about five minutes of me like really like moaning and I thought I was screaming, I thought I was like yelling, but he was like none of us heard that, like you were just like you know had this heavy moan.
And this is one of the most beautiful experiences again. I'm leaning over the tub, I have no idea that this tub even has handles. Um, but I needed something to grab onto. I'm grabbing onto my counter. Um, I'm trying to grab onto the tub, but it's so big. I can't like grab onto anything and I'm feeling like pressure.
And I'm like, [01:03:00] I just need something to hold. Like I need something to hold. And in labor land, completely lost there. I see this vision of Jesus is knelt down. on my left side and he's holding his hand out and I can see the hole where they pierce his hands. Like it was so real to me, Kayla. It was so real.
And on my right side, I see my sister knelt down and she's holding her hand out and I grabbed both of their hands. And when I did that, I grabbed two handles on the outside of the tub and I, I hiked my leg up and my, I heard my husband, he was like, baby's coming. And my midwife said, no, she still has like hours left.
And I was like, no, the baby is coming. And I sat back into my husband's arms. [01:04:00] And my baby was born in the water, and I just lifted baby up, and I'm crying, like, he's crying, like, here's our baby, we've, we've got this baby. And with three boys, I thought it was just gonna be another boy, I, I wasn't even, like, banking on a girl.
Um, and it was a few minutes past, and the midwife asked me, she said, did you see what you had? And And I was like, no, I didn't even think to look at the, the sex of the baby. Um, so I lifted the baby up and it's a girl, but it is a girl and we all lost it. Like, I lost it. Like, just like ugly, heavy crying that I have this girl.
And, um, and I looked up too, and my sister's there. My husband had called her and was like, Hey, I think you should be here. I had no [01:05:00] idea. I didn't plan on her to be there. Like, she left. Um, she had left from earlier. But she stayed awake and she kept her phone on. And she told me, she was like, I don't even know why I did that.
Um, but I just stayed up and kept my phone on. And my husband had called her when I was in the thick of labor land and, and she was there. So I had both of my sisters there watching me birth this baby girl with really only an hour and a half labor. Like it was, it was so fast. Um, it was so beautiful. And we just went to, you know, we laid down on the couch and, Went to bed, and they stayed in bed for a few days, and it was just, again, so healing, like, so healing, and so beautiful, and I really got to experience, like, birth, again, and, and just like you described, it's like, I could do this a hundred [01:06:00] times, like, I felt that, and I still feel that, like, I, I love it, I, I love it, um, but, but, birth is just so beautiful.
It's so beautiful. So that, that was our fourth. Uh, little Miss Mabel um, was our, our little girl.
Kayla: Aw, so what are your, all of your children's names then? Zaylin,
Cursty: Avram, Ezra, and Mabel.
Kayla: I love it. I, I have many boys as well and a girl, one girl. So. Wow.
Cursty: Okay.
Kayla: My girl came first and then I had four boys. So.
Cursty: Wow.
What a blessing that is.
Kayla: Yes. And they all, it's, it's, it's a boy house over here and the girl and I try and get away sometimes.
Cursty: Yeah, I get that. I get that.
Kayla: But wow, I love, loved every part of your story. And I mean, I'm just, I'm sitting [01:07:00]over here, like I could listen to this all day. What do you feel like God taught you through these experiences?
Maybe one experience or maybe all of them, but what do you feel like he taught you?
Cursty: Yeah, I feel like just putting my trust in him, just when I take that leap of faith. Like he, you know, he has given us this promise of of new life. He has given us this promise of, um, eternal life with him. And there was never any, any fear.
There was no fear in the two births that I really handed things to him. And I took no control over, you know, I took responsibility, but it wasn't me. leading the charge. It was handing over, you know, me and this pregnancy and this baby to him. Those were, I mean, the most incredible births. And [01:08:00] God just really taught me like he alone is my source of strength.
Uh, he alone, nobody else, no midwife, no doctor, no hospital system. No. medicine, not even myself, not even my husband. Um, no one, I can't ever find that source of strength through another outlet but him. And, and that has really reigned true in my life since those births of, of really recognizing what a weak vessel I am.
And, uh, you know, to never put my faith or trust in other people or in systems. Um, obviously, you know, if we need it, um, you know, that would be the way to, to go, but not to put my soul, my soul faith in that, you know, my strength comes from him and him alone.
Kayla: Yeah. Do you have any advice, anything [01:09:00] that you would say to a mom out there?
Or to a dad, or maybe they're expecting for the first time, maybe they're expecting for the fourth time. What would you have to say to them?
Cursty: I would, I would encourage mothers and fathers as well to, to put their faith in, in Christ and Christ alone, um, and to embrace the responsibility and embrace the, uh, the design that, that A mother's body has, you know, God designed us so fearfully, so wonderfully, and you know, we're told that in Psalms 139 that, you know, we're fearfully and wonderfully made, marvelous are thy works.
My soul knoweth that very well. And he made us to do this. This is, His design and his design is never flawed. It is never, uh, damaged. It is so pure [01:10:00] and so intentional and I would encourage mothers to really rest in that and I would encourage fathers to really trust that. I've heard of experiences of, you know, well, my husband won't let me birth this way.
My husband won't allow me to birth this way. And I am a very submissive wife. I, I follow my husband wherever he leads us. Um, unless I feel a very strong conviction. Otherwise, in which we would communicate that, but I would encourage wives, you know, definitely submit to your husband and what he desires, but also pray for the softening of his heart if he, you know, is very adamant about you birthing a different way than you.
Want or you know that that you desire. I would encourage, you know, pray to open that God would open his heart and would soften his heart. Um, because it's so beautiful and not only [01:11:00]beautiful and life changing for a woman, but also for a marriage. Um, having Mabel, it, it didn't like completely heal everything.
We are still, you know, On the up and up still, you know, things to work through, but it was such a healing moment and a very defining moment in our marriage. And it has been such a blessing to my husband to witness me in that, in those moments, in those birthing moments, and for him to catch our children and for him to be a part of that, it really is healing and beautiful.
I would also suggest to definitely learn the stages of labor and, and to really know what you're going into. Cause like you said, it is 90 percent mental and spiritual and emotional. The body is really such a small piece of it. The body is, the body is just the [01:12:00] vessel. Um, everything else is, um, spiritual and mental.
And I think it's important to know what's ahead, to know that Transition is transition, and you know, the, um, definitely the video that I recommended earlier, it's just a speech, uh, Wapioh is on a podcast, and, but it's recorded on, uh, YouTube. If you look up Wapioh, the Matrona, the holistic stages of labor and birth, and it really is the most accurate description I have ever heard.
ever heard. And I think it's important. I think it's important to, you know, know what's going on.
Kayla: Yeah. I've never heard that. I'll definitely look at that probably right after this. I'll go look at that.
Cursty: It's incredible. It really is. And I listened to it. All throughout my last two pregnancies, like I mean every week it was even sometimes multiple times a week [01:13:00] just to just to prepare myself and then I would suggest to to for mothers and fathers to keep in mind that birth is a very biologically normative event.
It is so rarely a medical event. And, and if we really leaned into, you know, the mother's body knows what to do and the, the mother isn't going to put her or her baby in risk, you know, at risk that the mother wants this, the mother desires this, the baby wants to be born that, you know, the baby doesn't want to be in there forever.
Um, you know, I think that. Keeping that in mind could negate a lot of medicalization happening.
Kayla: Yeah. I think a lot of people have a misconception in their heads just due to, you know, society and culture, but thinking that the hospital is the safest place to deliver. [01:14:00] Um, and thinking that, you know, if you're in a hospital, that means nothing bad can happen.
Yeah. When really, statistically speaking, walking into the hospital, your chances of your birth plan going awry or, or negative things happening increase significantly, rather than just leaving the mother alone and letting her body do what it needs to do, you know, outside the hospital doors that, you know, 95, 99 percent of the time, whatever stat you want to put on it, it's Things go smoothly.
It's like, I was just talking to another woman and her husband yesterday for recording, and they were going from like a hospital to a home birth situation. And, you know, she had to present information to him and. and help him to understand the risks and the benefits of actually, you know, the actual risks of birthing in a hospital versus birthing at home.
And, it was funny because I just [01:15:00] wanted to say this in the episode. He was like, oh, you mean I just get to sleep in my bed and sleep on my couch instead of on that, you know, crib? Crooked chair in the hospital. Okay. Like that sounds great. Um, I said, well, that's funny that, you know, that, that your sleeping situation convinced you more so than the statistics.
Um, but I, I think what people don't understand is that like the, in America, you know, like one in three women have a C section, but it's one in three women birthing in a hospital have a C section. Whereas it's not one in three women. In the country, it's one in three women birthing in a hospital. I mean, if you are a home birth mom implanting a home birth, that statistic is, whoa, smaller.
Like, I'm not sure exactly what it is. But I know it's way less than that. It's like way less than 10 percent even, or maybe even 5%. But, um, Like, and if you look at Ina May's statistics, you know, the [01:16:00] midwife, the famous midwife in Tennessee at the farm. Yeah. Hers are like, what, like 1%? Like, 1 point something percent, 2 percent C section rate, which is like, Like unheard of, but it's just when, you know, when you leave the mom alone and, and you let her body do what God designed it to do and you don't intervene and you're not pressuring her and you're not putting a timetable on anything.
And it's just amazing what will unfold. And yes, her mental state plays the biggest factor in that, in your environment, in your preparation, they all play such a huge factor into your mental state, like. your prayer life and like just, oh, there's so many factors. There's so many contributing factors. But there
Cursty: absolutely is.
And I think too, really as a society as a whole, we don't want to take responsibility. It's so much easier for us to hand over the responsibility in case anything [01:17:00] goes wrong or goes bad. Then we can sit back and say, well, you know, That was the doctor's fault, or you know, the doctor made me do this when, you know, in reality, it's all choices we have to make.
Even if we hand over our responsibility, that's still on us that we made that choice to hand over and, um, And then so, you know, women can say, you know, well, the doctor said I had to do this. And, and I know, cause I, I have experience with that. You know, the midwife said it, you know, I needed a C section or the Pitocin, but ultimately it was me handing over that power to the midwife to begin with.
Uh, that was, you know, that was the, the first point in a long line of cascades. Um, uh, you know, the cascade of interventions. And What a powerful nation we would have, or powerful communities, if mothers really stepped into their, their design. [01:18:00] Um, you know, I, I bonded the best with my babies at home. I breastfed very well with my babies at home.
And, you know, if we all, you know, Connected with our babies that way. And if we all felt that really fierce protection over our babies and, you know, we had that connection through breastfeeding and through skin on skin and, um, you know, all of the things, what would, What would our communities look like, um, you know, if we didn't hand babies off to people and didn't hand over, you know, feeding our babies to formula, um, and, and obviously there are situations where those things are absolutely needed.
This is not a blanket statement. Um, I'm just saying, you know, the, the lack of. wanting to take responsibility over the pregnancy and over the birth. I really think that that cascades into a long line of disconnect as mothers with our [01:19:00] children.
Kayla: Yeah. I mean, I know that we've strayed from our original topics here, but I'm still liking where this conversation is going.
Um, that in our society, we, it's like we're trained from a young age to think. Your pregnancy is a medical event, the birth of your baby is the responsibility of an OBGYN. Your place of birth is supposed to be a hospital, like that's the only place people are supposed to be birthing. It is very normal and very regular to have interventions like Pitocin and even antibiotics and Epidurals and you know c sections and all the things.
It's like we're trained to to fear the pain. We're told it's going to be very painful. You're going to, you know, want all this stuff and we're scaring women. And, and it's like, when you're raised in that your whole life, it is such a hard [01:20:00] 180 to, to revert back to God's original design. And I think What people have a hard time understanding is that, and I could talk about this for hours, but I'll try and make this brief.
I
Cursty: could too.
Kayla: Is that, um, you know, less than a hundred years ago, everybody was born at home. Yeah. Like, for, since the beginning of time, everybody was born at home. And, And when you grow up that way, and when you grow up with that mentality of birth is normal, we were designed to birth babies, we birth them in our homes where we're going to raise them, like, and that is the way of life.
And when you grow up, you know, as a daughter, like, seeing your mom or seeing your sisters or your cousins or your aunts or whatever, and then having those women there who have gone through it to support you and surround you. It's not this scary medical thing. It [01:21:00] is this normal, regular part of life, circle of life, like that every woman, well, not every woman, but that most women will go through.
And it, and it's just so. As it should be, like, and it's, it's not this big scary thing. It wasn't until, sorry, male OBGYNs got involved and hospitals were built and all these, it's like, and you know, there's like a million layers to how it's become what it is today. Um, but it's like, it's like people forget.
That how, how did the human race live as long as we have without home birth? You know what I mean? It's, you know, and I, I feel like everyone always says, well, we have to caveat. Yes. Yes. There are situations. There are exceptions. There are, there are, but there's so much less than they have to be. And there's so much rarer than people make them out [01:22:00] to be.
And it really is. If you really dive into the research and you really dive in. Down the rabbit hole, if you will, of what causes all of these, you know, quote unquote poor outcomes, it is the interventions, it is the intervening, it is the ridiculous amount of monitoring of all these extra ultrasounds and all these extra heart rate checks and all these extra, it's like.
It's insane, because then everyone's scared and it's all about liability and money and getting sued and, and you look, you look better in a courtroom if you intervene than if you did nothing. Like it's just, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to get off of my pedestal now. I just, it's like, I just want women to know who don't know, you know, I want, I, and I say this in my childbirth class.
It's like, My, I mean, obviously I love birth. I love attending births. I love [01:23:00] birthing babies myself. I love talking about birth. It's obviously a huge passion of mine, but my biggest passion is probably teaching childbirth classes so that I can help these women learn these things that I didn't know my first time around that I wish I knew my first time around.
Did I have a horrible traumatic experience with my first? No. No. But could I have had a better experience? Yes. And, and especially knowing the experiences I've had now. And it's like, my heart breaks when I am with a woman after she's had that traumatic experience and she's coming to me after the fact.
And it's like, golly, I'm not God and I can't prevent anything traumatic from happening. But I know that had she been equipped with more knowledge and had she known the true risks and benefits of the choices she was making or, or if she even realized that she had choices [01:24:00] to make that the outcome could have been and likely would have been dramatically different.
And it's like, people are like, Oh, well, as long as we have healthy mom and a healthy baby, like that's all that matters. That's not all that matters. Like a mom's experience giving birth affects, like you said, the bonding with her child, the beginning of motherhood, like how she's going to parent possibly for years to come.
Like it is, it's such a bigger impact than, than I feel like the medical community makes it out to be.
Cursty: Oh, absolutely. I completely agree that, you know, we all want a safe, healthy mom. We want a safe, healthy baby, but it really is so much more than just that. a physically present baby or a physically alive mom, you know, it, it very much, I mean, it's the most sacred event a woman goes through.
I mean, the most [01:25:00] sacred and to disrupt that, uh, to have the use of chemicals running through a woman's body or, you know, the, the, the, The gaslighting or Mm-Hmm. , um, the, the taking away of, uh, the undernourishment, all of it, it affects so much and it can really affect the mother and the child for the rest of their lives.
Kayla: Mm-Hmm. .
Cursty: Um, and it really, you know, it's such a, a birth is such a sacred event that has to be. protected, that it has to be protected.
Kayla: Well, even though I know both you and I could keep talking about this. Yeah, I could. This has been great. I can't thank you enough for coming on here, sharing your stories, sharing your heart, sharing your faith, and, and then, you know, just sharing your advice and everything.
This has been wonderful. Christy.
Cursty: Yeah, so much, Kayla. I really appreciate the opportunity to, to share my stories.
Kayla: Thank you so [01:26:00] much for listening to today's episode. You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram, or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices. com. Be sure not to miss an episode by hitting the follow button.
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