051 - How Home Birth Can Offer Freedom and Peace Of Mind (with Jeni and John Davis)

LISTEN TODAY:

Click Here to Listen on Apple Podcasts
Click Here to Listen on Spotify

The Surrendered Birth Stories Podcast is available anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can also scroll to the bottom of this page for an embedded podcast player.

SHOW NOTES:

A last minute 66 hour induction at 37 weeks is not exactly what John and Jeni had planned for their daughter’s birth, but their naïvety of being young, first-time parents got the better of them. From the moment they got home from their nearly week long stay at the hospital, Jeni was already planning the redemptive second birth she knew God had for her, but this time, with open hands for His will to be done and not hers. Hear how their son’s birth was a complete one-eighty from their daughter’s, and why choosing to have him at home was what they feel like God intended for them all along.

Mentioned in this episode:
The Business of Being Born (Documentary)
Real Food For Pregnancy (Book)

Want to connect with us? Have a question?
Shoot us a DM at @surrenderedbirthservices on Instagram, and give us a follow while you're there!

TRANSCRIPT:

As soon as I got to the hospital, they kept saying, you have preeclampsia, you have preeclampsia, you need to start the induction process now.

Going through all these things, well, then afterwards, I looked it up and realized, you know, in order for them to say I have preeclampsia, they have to do a urine test, they have to do a blood test.

They should have done an at-home blood pressure monitoring.

They didn't do any of that.

I went back and looked at the insurance paperwork just a few months ago, and the insurance paperwork, what they said that I was induced for, was morbid obesity.

Hi, and welcome to another episode of surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth stories, birth education, and the pursuit of surrendering it all to God.

Let's get started.

Hey y'all, doing my typical Sunday night intro recording.

We actually spent the weekend at our friend's house in Holly Springs, and took all the kids there.

They're really, really close friends, so we called them, you know, their aunt, uncle, and cousins, and the kids got to play with their cousins, and the adults got to hang out with each other after kids were in bed, which we thought would have been great all this time, you know, uninterrupted from kids to hang out.

But it turned into a lot of interruptions, because between our baby and our three-year-old, they just kind of, I think, knew they were in a weird place, and just kept waking up, but it was still fun.

We still got to play a game and hang out, eat some snacks, and talk late into the night.

And, you know, we definitely did not get enough sleep, but that's usually the case when we're there.

It's always a sleepless time, but always a good time, which is well worth it, in my opinion, to have family sleepovers with your friends, because when you have kids that are all small, sometimes family sleepovers are the only way that you can chit chat, hang out without your kids around is after they go to bed.

This week's review of the week comes from Jen Carr 21.

She says, five out of five.

One of my favorite podcasts to listen to every week.

I typically have it playing while cleaning the house.

Although I am not a mom yet, the birth stories and hearing couples discuss their decisions about starting to have children and choosing care providers are incredibly helpful.

It makes me so much more hopeful for when we do have children.

I love the education and empowerment for women that they can have a beautiful natural birth experience and don't have to just follow the hospital or traditional route that some doctors might suggest.

Kayla's personal stories along with the emphasis on our relationship with God and surrendering to him not only in birth but throughout all areas of life are truly inspiring.

Thank you, Kayla and Chris, for all the effort, time, and prayers you put into this podcast.

It really is incredible.

Well, thank you, Jen Carr 21.

We do put a lot of time and effort into this podcast, and it means so much to us that it means so much to you.

I hope you guys will leave a review just like Jen did.

When you guys leave reviews, it really helps get this show in front of more people, and that means more moms and dads being educated about birth and more moms and dads being lifted in their faith and the love of Jesus.

Something exciting I wanted to get on y'all's radar is the fact that our one year anniversary of this podcast is coming up in just three weeks.

Somehow it has already been a whole year of the surrendered Birth Stories podcast, which is like crazy to believe because sometimes it feels like yesterday that we were just talking about doing this podcast in the first place.

And other times it feels like we've been doing it much longer because it is a lot of work, but it is, I think, so incredibly worth it.

And I hope you think so too.

So I wanted to tell you to be on the lookout.

Not only is our one year episode going to be in three weeks, but on Instagram over on surrendered Birth Stories, we are going to be doing a giveaway for our one year anniversary.

It'll be a fun one.

I'm not telling yet, but I'll announce it next week.

But we are going to be doing a giveaway for our one year anniversary.

And we've never done a giveaway before.

So just be on the lookout for that.

I'm excited.

Just really looking forward to this huge, huge milestone in the life of this podcast.

Now, let's jump in to this week's episode.

A last minute 66 hour induction at 37 weeks is not exactly what John and Jeni had planned for their daughter's birth.

But their naivety of being young first time parents got the better of them.

From the moment they got home from their nearly week long stay at the hospital, Jeni was already planning the redemptive birth she knew God had for her.

But this time, with open hands for his will to be done and not hers.

Hear how their son's birth was a complete 180 from their daughters and why choosing to have him at home was what they feel like God intended for them all along.

Welcome to another episode of surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater.

And today, I have a husband and wife duo with me, which I'm excited about because we've done a few episodes like that.

And I've gotten really good feedback about it.

So anytime the husband is able to join, I'm like, yes, please, please join.

I would love to hear your perspective.

So I'm going to have you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves.

Tell us your names, who you are, a little bit about you and your family and your life.

We're John and Jeni Davis.

And the Lord brought us together almost five years ago, is when we met.

And then we got married October of 2021.

And very shortly after, we found out that we were pregnant with our first.

You know, being newlyweds and not really knowing how to navigate life.

I had just graduated college.

I had no idea what I was doing with myself.

And here I am about to be a mother.

And when we first found out that we were pregnant, obviously, we were ecstatic.

I really wanted a baby, and we didn't really care if it was a boy or a girl.

We were just so excited to have this blessing the whole time.

You know, having a honeymoon baby, people are like, not necessarily judgmental, but they're like, are you sure you know what you're doing?

And our verse for when we announced her birth, we said that she was our arrow, as arrows are in the hands of a mighty man.

That's why I have you here.

Psalm 27.

Yeah.

And so we wanted to make sure that people knew that this was our blessing from the Lord.

I was due the middle of July, which I do not recommend.

If you can plan a pregnancy, do not ever be due in the summer.

That was miserable.

But I was due in July, and I had already had a gynecologist from right before we were getting married.

I wanted to make sure that whenever we did have a baby, because I knew, more than likely, it would be shortly after we got married, I wanted to already have that relationship with a doctor.

And so I was going to this particular practice, and the lady that I was going to, she couldn't just outright say that she was a Christian, but you could tell that she was a Christian and that she was encouraging to me, and I loved it so much.

And I told John, I said, I'm so excited to be able to use this lady.

But what I didn't realize in being naive was that she was not going to be the person delivering my baby.

She was only a gynecologist, so she couldn't do any type of pregnancy stuff.

So I saw her at that very first appointment when they confirmed my pregnancy, but then I never saw her again.

And there was a lot going on in that practice that they overlooked because it's the hospital minded.

They think that the only solution to high blood pressure or to preeclampsia is delivering the baby.

That's their first goal, is they just want to deliver the baby.

So they didn't mention that I was at risk for preeclampsia.

They didn't mention that my high blood pressure was a problem, and it wasn't even crazy high.

My blood pressure right now is higher than it was when they induced me.

But at 37 weeks, I went to this normal checkup appointment, thinking everything's perfectly fine, and she takes my blood pressure.

And keep in mind, this was during COVID, so we had to wear a mask.

I was super swollen.

I wasn't taking care of myself.

I was eating all the junk food.

That was my excuse, because I was pregnant and eating for two, so eating all the junk food.

So I wasn't healthy.

But walking from the lobby to back where they took my blood pressure, it was, I mean, it was high, because I can't breathe, I'm overweight.

And they said, we're going to take your blood pressure again in about 10 minutes.

And if it's not significantly lower and in the normal range, then you're going to go straight to the hospital, and we're going to induce you, and you're going to have a baby today.

Was high blood pressure the only symptom that you had?

Well, you said swelling.

But did you have protein in your urine?

No.

So it was just high blood pressure.

It was not like preeclampsia.

The second time I took my blood pressure, it was 140 over 90, which is still not high.

No, I would consider that like the beginning of being high, not like too high.

Exactly.

And the main thing about what was concerning to me was the amount of weight that she had gained, and they had never really even said anything.

They were more along the lines of encouraging it, saying that it's a good thing that she's gaining.

Can I ask how much you gained?

It was about 80 pounds total.

Yeah.

But when I asked about the swelling, I think it was 35 or 36 weeks, I asked them and the doctor looked me in the eyes and said, you're swelling is a good thing, because that means that you won't need an IV during labor and delivery.

What?

That's correct.

Exactly.

And I'm a first time mom, I'm 22 years old, I don't know what I'm doing.

Okay, I'm gonna stop you right there.

I'm listening now, like, okay, I have so much to say right now.

So yeah, 80 pounds is a lot to gain, for sure.

Now, I mean, I've gained 50 or 60 with mine, so it's not like astronomical, but it's more than the average for sure.

I find it irritating that sometimes at the offices like that, the one like one that you're describing, and this is what I teach in my class, I teach students in my class who are getting ready to have babies, this exactly, I say, when you go to your appointments, and they take your urine, and they take your blood pressure, and they weigh you, you need to ask them, you need to say, what were my urine results?

What was in it?

Am I spilling any glucose, or am I spilling any proteins, or ketones, or anything into my urine?

Do I need to start changing my diet?

How's my blood pressure?

Is it okay?

Because typically at offices like that, they don't say anything until there is a problem.

Even though there are warning signs leading up to it, that if you changed course and change diet and exercise and supplements, and lifestyle changes, you can prevent them from getting worse, or even get them better, rather than just waiting for things to get bad, and then suddenly intervening medically at the end, instead of early intervention with diet and lifestyle changes.

In hindsight, knowing what I know now, it breaks my heart for the other moms that are like me that had no idea.

I know of two right here off the bat just thinking they were going to the OB, everything was fine, and then one of them, you have the cascade of interventions and ended up in a C-section, and then you have another one that had what they said was high blood pressure.

And I don't think that it was pre-eclampsia, but I mean, obviously, I can't say that because I'm not a doctor, but seeing how the offices just aren't taking care of the patients and actually keeping the patients a priority.

Well, or educating either.

And also another thing is that being first-time parents, and you're going to these offices, you're putting your trust in their decisions and their ideas and their opinions on how to take care of yourself.

And when they say everything's fine, and they don't mention anything, then young parents, they just take it as, I can keep doing what I'm doing.

Yeah, everything's fine.

And then then at the point, like you said before, is they don't deal with it until they have to deal with it.

And it's become a problem.

And now this thing that God has made natural as birth and to have children now is turned into an emergency.

And it's turned into, all right, we're just going to do it the easy way to get y'all out, in and out, to have C-sections.

And I understand there's certain circumstances where C-sections are needed, but that shouldn't even be on your mindset unless the baby is at an issue or mom is at an issue.

Now looking back, again, knowing what I know now, I was induced at 37 weeks, which was the 4th of July weekend.

And they had failed to tell me all these things.

Then as soon as I got to the hospital, they kept saying, you have preeclampsia, you have preeclampsia, you need to start the induction process now.

Going through all these things, well, then afterwards, I looked it up and realized, you know, in order for them to say I have preeclampsia, they have to do a urine test, they have to do a blood test.

They should have done an at-home blood pressure monitoring.

They didn't do any of that.

I went back and looked at the insurance paperwork just a few months ago, and the insurance paperwork, what they said that I was induced for, was morbid obesity.

Nothing about preeclampsia, nothing.

And that was hard on me, because I'm thinking, you know, I could have had, I wanted a natural birth so badly.

It was my first, I did not want an epidural.

I've seen the business of being born, so I know what epidurals do.

I know what pitocin does.

I did not want that.

And so I made them go through this entire big process.

And I will say that that OB did not realize that they were picking the wrong person to try and induce on the fourth of July weekend.

Because on my birth plan, I even said, you're going to do this, this, this, and this before you even talk about a C-section.

And if you try to give me a C-section, I want a signed document from two different doctors saying that that's the only way to save my life or my child's life.

You're not going to just take the easy way out on this.

You were ready to advocate for yourself.

Yes.

Well, and she had went over the paperwork, and that's something that first time parents need to really have somebody that's a planner.

And I'm thankful my wife is the planner of all planners.

I'll tell you what.

And she has everything laid out.

She had it stuck to the refrigerator for months and months.

There's probably one over there right now that we haven't taken down from our son.

But she had it laid out, and she explained to me because in that state, I'm her advocate.

I know what she wants.

And that's something that first time parents need to do if they're going that route, to have those stand up guards that way they don't get taken out so quickly and so easily.

And it's sad to say that the health care system failed us in this on our first child, so to speak, because it could have all been prevented.

I watched my wife walk around in utter discomfort for a month, her feet swollen, she's barely moving around.

It's obviously 95 degrees outside too.

And I don't remember our baby shower.

The baby shower that we had for our first born, I don't remember it, because I was so swollen, I was so miserable.

I have pictures that I could not tell you anything about it, other than the pictures I've seen.

I just want to ask a couple clarifying questions.

So, you were young parents, honeymoon baby, but you wanted children, and children are a blessing, this is great.

But going into pregnancy with the OB-GYN, because that's who you already see in the gynecologist there, because I'm interested in to what made you want to have a natural birth in the first place.

Like what led you to that decision of wanting like an unmedicated birth?

So, I think there's something that clicks in, I won't say every parent, but in most moms, that when they get pregnant, they really start to look at things.

And for me, that was me doing more research on, like for instance, vaccinations, do research on the food dyes and artificial fragrances, and just really seeing, hey, there's something out there that's different than how I grew up, and just wanting better for my child than I had for myself.

And then when I started down the rabbit hole, it just kind of grew and grew and grew.

And when I heard about the business of being born and I watched it, it was so eye-opening that especially in America, they just want their money.

They want to build insurance for as much as they can.

And so I think that that really solidified my decisions, that we can't trust the healthcare system with everything.

You know, I think that they're a blessing and God specifically has given us people that have the knowledge to be doctors and nurses, and they're so beneficial.

But also to some extent, you need to do your own research and determine what's best for you and your family because your doctor doesn't know you.

They don't live with you.

They don't know what's best for your family.

And I think that's also the charge that God has given parents to determine what's best for your children and your family.

You know, that's my responsibility as a mother to, when I'm cooking, am I going to cook with vegetable oil or coconut oil?

You know, what am I going to do to make things healthier and to be the steward of my family?

You're speaking my language over here.

So, when do you think or what made you shift from I'm pregnant, I'm eating for two, I can eat whatever I want, all the pregnancy cravings, to I need to, you know, watch what I'm putting in my body and, you know, like you said, with the food dyes and the seed oils and stuff like that.

Like, when did you see that shift take place?

I don't think it ever quite clicked in my brain that what I'm eating, the baby's eating.

So, I mean, I was eating whatever I wanted up until delivery.

It was more of once the baby's born and is not in my little cocoon of safety that I'm giving her.

What am I going to do at that point?

And so, because the doctors, like I said, they never mentioned, hey, you should be eating healthier.

You need to eat protein.

You're starting to get high blood pressure.

Have you heard of the Brewer's Diet?

I'm not sure they have heard of the Brewer's Diet.

I really don't think they have.

At least not that one.

And also, and that's one thing with her about the Brewer's Diet, it just didn't work for her because of the amount of food that she had to consume day in and day out.

Her body style, I don't think, really acclimated well with it because, I mean, she gained more weight.

But it was still good weight.

It was good weight, but.

She gained more weight, and we were skeptical about it because that was what the first problem was.

So she began to just follow and make sure she was getting proteins instead of carbohydrates and sugar, pretty much.

Instead of eating a bunch of honey buns, she was eating eggs and cheese and stuff like that.

All the cheese.

Yeah, let's take a minute, and we'll just clarify real quick.

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, so the brewer's diet, there's a man named Dr.

Brewer, and he went to an area that had really high cases of preeclampsia and was actually able to basically eradicate it with diet changes for them.

And if you look it up online, I mean, as soon as you Google the brewer's diet, like it'll come up immediately.

And it's basically just this dietary guideline to follow while you're pregnant that will in essence prevent preeclampsia for, I would say, like 99% of people.

It focuses on protein, lots and lots and lots of protein, actually a lot of dairy as well, and lots of good fruits and vegetables and stuff, not so many grains, not so many carbs.

Like you can still have them, but just not to the extent.

And lots of good eggs and steak, and we do want the red meat and that kind of stuff, and salting to taste, because a lot of people will say, oh, you need to eliminate salt from your diet if you're swelling, but actually it's just the type of salt that you are consuming.

You want to be consuming that real salt with the minerals in it, instead of the processed table salt.

It's just like sodium and water retention.

Anyway, so you guys can look that up, but I will say, yes, it is.

Because if you look at the guidelines, he's like, oh, this much dairy a day, and this many eggs a day, and this much protein a day, it is a lot of food.

And so it'll make anyone gain weight, if you eat that much food.

But I think maybe less than eating the exact amount of food it's telling you to is more so making sure that the foods that you are choosing to eat are kind of within those guidelines, focusing on the proteins and focusing on the healthy, clean, whole foods, rather than the processed junk.

And making sure that you're truly nourishing your body and therefore your baby with nutrients and not, like you said, sugar and oils and white flour and stuff like that.

But I can attest, she didn't really follow the brewer's diet.

To a tea.

To a tea, like you were saying.

It's just focusing on and getting the idea and grasping the program, so to speak.

Of eating the proteins and the eggs and the dairy.

And that's what she did for the majority.

For the second time around.

Yeah, second baby.

This is what she did.

She still gained about 60 pounds.

So it wasn't as much as the first time.

But I can tell you, she was able to move around and she went pretty much full term.

And you probably felt better too.

Yeah.

And she wasn't always flush, you know, her feet.

She could actually wear her sandals.

We didn't have to buy her a little pair of sandals every couple of weeks or whatever.

And she was actually able to walk around, enjoy the pregnancy.

And it also put me at ease because I know mama's fine.

And so now I can kind of sit back and not have too many thoughts or worries about the next pregnancy.

Because that was a stipulation after having Jubilee in the hospital and just having such a traumatic birth for her.

Now, I ended up having to have pitocin because I wasn't progressing after three days.

I was in labor for 66 hours.

You know, after not progressing, I had to have pitocin.

Well, because that pain was so unbearable, I ended up asking for pain medication and that knocked me out because they added something else with it.

I was going to say, usually, they end up doing the anti-nausea meds with the pain medication because they make you so nauseous and then those make y'all sleepy and it's, yeah.

It was the spade all and the finnergun that they put together.

Oh yeah, that'll knock you right out.

Well, while I was asleep, they went in, because my mom was there, thankfully.

I don't know what I would have done if he had not been there the entire time and then my mom being there just for the mental comfort because I got my emotional comfort and then mental comfort.

And while I was asleep, the doctors came in and asked John and my mom if they could up the amount of potassium above the max that they were allowed to give.

So instead of the 30, I think it's 30 milligrams or something like that, they up to 35.

Whoa.

All I had had was the stay at all.

So that was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life.

I could not handle it.

And that's where I asked for the epidural.

And this is another just a God thing.

While I was in the middle of a contraction, they were sticking the epidural in my back.

And I was writhing in pain the entire time.

I was just bawling my eyes out in so much pain, because I would wake up in the middle of a contraction and then get knocked right back out.

And then I'd ask for the epidural.

And the whole time I'm sitting there, and John and my mom both are watching the screen showing that I'm having contraction.

But I'm sitting there praying, reciting verses of scripture to myself, trying to sing.

I was singing Count Your Many Blessings, which I can't even hear that song now, without thinking of a contraction.

A hymnal that goes, Count Your Blessings, name them one by one.

Count Your Blessings, name them one by one.

And she was just singing that, and now every time we're at church and they sing that song, we both look at each other like...

That's a contraction.

That's a contraction moment.

But I was in so much pain, and it was like God just put a blanket of comfort and peace all over me, because that was the one and only time that I did not feel a contraction was when, even though it was, from what they said on the screen, was the biggest one I'd had yet.

I could not feel it because I knew I could not move with the epidural being placed on my back.

And it was like the Lord just held me still and took the pain away for that contraction.

And then she was born the next morning.

We were in the hospital again for two more days after that, before they would let us go home.

And I remember telling John, almost as soon as we got home, I said, I want to have another kid.

And this time is going to heal the trauma that we had been through.

After she was born, I felt so disconnected to her that she didn't feel like my child.

I didn't have that, you know, if people say when your baby's first born, you have that instant love, and I didn't have that with her.

It was like that broken connection.

And I mean, it took about three months before she really started becoming my child.

And now we're inseparable.

But no, that's my girl.

And but it's just amazing what the difference is in the hospital versus having a natural home birth.

And when we were in the hospital, we got home.

I told him, I was like, I want another kid.

And this time I want to have a child the way that God intended.

I'm going to be healthy.

I'm going to find a midwife that will do it.

This time is going to be different.

And basically, as soon as she was born, I started preparing for kid number two.

Wow.

I love that.

And I love you too.

This is great.

I love this.

So let me ask you, because we talked all about diet and everything and the Brewer's diet and changing the way you're eating, da da da da.

Do you know about the book, Real Food for Pregnancy?

I don't think so, no.

Well, I don't know if you plan on having any other kids, but give that one a read.

A little bit.

Oh, yeah.

Two littles, back to back is a lot.

I understand completely.

But Real Food for Pregnancy, it's a great book that talks all about what you should actually be eating during pregnancy, and my midwife says, and really just in life in general.

But it definitely goes into a lot of pregnancy specific things.

But she talks about Dr.

Brewer a lot, and Weston A.

Price, does that name ring a bell?

Yeah.

So for anyone else out there who's trying to prepare in a much healthier way, that is a fantastic book.

Okay.

So tell us about, you know, you have this super, super long induction.

And I always try and tell people that when they sign up for an induction, I'm like, you could literally be there for days.

So just mentally prepare for that battle.

I'm monetarily prepared too.

Oh, right.

We're still paying.

Before we jump in to that birth story, though, before we jump in to that second pregnancy, I want to know how all of that affected everything that happened with the first, with the induction, all of that.

How did that affect breastfeeding and postpartum or did it?

Postpartum was terrible.

I had, I mean, I talk a little bit about having that disconnect with her for the first three months, like not having that instant bonding connection.

Which can be from epidurals too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now I know that too.

Yeah.

But the postpartum depression was terrible.

And I know John will probably be able to attest to that a little bit better than me because he had to deal with it.

We'll get you your happy pills.

I'll do a little insert here.

Pulsatilla homeopathy is amazing for postpartum depression.

It helps so much.

And I blew through.

I'm like crazy.

Amazon delivered them fairly often with us.

Yes.

So postpartum was very difficult.

Breastfeeding, I had every intention of nursing and then she was born with a lip tie that the hospital didn't catch.

Even when I took her to her first two, pediatrician appointments, they didn't notice it.

So I'm over here thinking, okay, well, why is she not latching right?

She wasn't nursing.

And thankfully, I had been harvesting colostrum for the past couple of weeks.

So I had a lot of syringes that she was able to use.

That's good.

But it never quite clicked in my mind that, okay, if she's eating, I need to pump.

So I went without pumping for three days after she was born.

She wouldn't latch, so there was no milk moving.

And I started pumping the day we were released from the hospital.

And I just started praying.

I was adamant, I'm not using formula for my child.

You know, I refuse, I'm gonna make this work.

And I started pumping.

And it is only by the grace of God that I still had an oversupply with her.

And I was able to exclusively pump, which is also another God thing, because I actually really enjoy pumping versus trying to nurse.

Really?

I don't enjoy it.

That's not something that I look forward to.

And the pumping, so convenient, wonderful.

And I can feed him or her at any time.

Yes.

Oh, wow.

I haven't usually heard that.

Well, I mean, I guess I've heard that aspect of it, of like someone else is able to feed, which is, you know, good.

But I've never heard a woman say that they enjoy pumping.

Yes.

I don't enjoy the cleaning.

The first time, there wasn't that enjoying, because it was a lot more, and you weren't producing as much as you do now.

Yes.

I think it was more strenuous the first time, because she didn't start off right away, like even before preparing, like, and even the doctors were like, man, you're way more prepared than most people ever could.

And I mean, the first time that we noticed that we had already went through all the colostrum that we brought with us, that they gave her a pump in the hospital, and she pumped like...

They told me to pump for 15 minutes.

But you'd pump like 30 milliliters of colostrum at once.

But that's another thing, is if you're exclusively pumping, you don't pump for 15 minutes and then cut it off.

You pump until you're empty, and you have a lactation consultant coming in telling us, don't use a pacifier, only pump for 15 minutes, you know, all these things, which now I know, if you're exclusively nursing, that's different.

And then yes, you're correct, but if you're pumping, that's not the case.

You should be pumping every three to four hours around the clock.

Now at first, every two to three hours around the clock, but that's always a little bit too much for me.

And you pump until you're empty, whether that's 15 minutes or an hour and 15 minutes.

So it really did affect our, our immediate postpartum season so much differently than our home birth did.

But I mean, we got home and I told you I was starting to plan everything and getting everything prepared for the second birth.

I started researching different midwives.

And at that point I was praying, okay, Lord, which one do you want us to have?

A big thing for me was I did not feel comfortable with the nurses and doctors coming in and telling me that they have the best interest for my child at heart, knowing that they are for abortion and they could have just murdered a baby 10 minutes before walking into my room.

And you can't tell me that.

You cannot tell me that you have the best interest of my child at heart when you agree with that and you stand for that.

And that was a big thing for me.

I wanted a Christian midwife that had the standards of I really do have your child's best interest at heart, not because this is your child, but because this is a blessing from the Lord.

This is the child that God's given you.

And this is my duty as a woman, as a child of God, to help you deliver this baby naturally in the way that God intended.

And I was praying so specifically for this.

And when I was researching midwives, there was one midwife that kept popping up, and I saw her name.

I looked her up, and I just kept getting drawn to her.

And then I mentioned it to one of my friends who had recently had a home birth just a few months before, and then come to find out that's who she used.

Then after talking to the midwife, she said that this was her ministry, is going out and being a midwife.

She wants to deliver babies, not because she wants to make money off of it, or because this or that, but because this is what she feels like she's called to do by the Lord.

And as soon as she told me that, I said, all right, well, I'm going to go ahead and sign myself up.

You know, you'll be the first person that knows I'm pregnant even before my husband, because I am going to make sure that you do not get booked up.

That's crazy.

Wait, so how many months, how old was your daughter whenever you had this meeting with this midwife and you weren't pregnant yet?

Yeah, when was that?

I think she was about five or six months old.

I had three stipulations.

As soon as we got home from the hospital and I wanted to have another kid, I had three stipulations.

I was done pumping.

She was a year old, and I was back to my pre-baby weight so that I could have a fresh start.

And I was close enough to my pre-baby weight.

I was like five pounds in that range.

That's a lot of weight to lose, too, so.

Yes.

And because I had an oversupply, I was able to quit pumping at nine months and still have enough to last her until she was 13 months when I ran out of frozen milk.

And then we were able to switch to raw milk, which she did fantastic with.

And then my third stipulation was she had to be a year old, and she was close enough to a year.

We found out that we were pregnant the week before her birthday.

So, it was close enough.

But the whole time I'm telling John, I said, you know, her birthday is coming up.

I'm wanting to have a kid pretty soon, or get pregnant pretty soon.

So I really want you to look at this handout that I made, you know, a whole PowerPoint presentation.

I printed out, had it spiral bound, the pros and cons of a home birth versus a hospital birth versus the birth center.

And I was really drawn to a birth center, but there's not one around us.

The closest one is about two hours away that I could find.

Where do y'all live?

Effland.

Chapel Hill, Durham, North Carolina.

Okay, right.

Because the Chapel Hill Birth Center had closed.

Okay.

And I'm like, okay, well, we can't drive two hours with me and labor.

So for me, I did not want another hospital birth.

I had so many reasons for it, but I did not want another hospital birth.

So I made this big pamphlet because he is a visual, he has to see the facts in front of him type person.

And I had been asking him about a home birth, but he kept saying, no, no, no.

So I asked him to tell me exactly what his fears were and what his concerns were.

And I actually talked to a labor and delivery nurse to see her perspective of things.

I had that included in the Spiral Bound Book and everything.

And I handed it to him.

And as soon as I handed it to him, he started getting overwhelmed.

But this is too much information.

I can't retain all of this right now.

But I handed it to him and I said, you can read this at your own pace.

I just need an answer by this date.

And I understand that you don't want me to have a home birth, but I will honor your decision regardless of what it is.

Whether you say yes or no to a home birth, I'm going to honor that decision.

But if you want me to respect that decision that you're making, I want you to read this and truly pray about it, not just say no and write it off.

So he did.

And now you can share your side of when I'm handing that to you.

Well, one thing that I would like to inform a mother that is wanting to do the home birth and her husband is not on board with it at that time and not really about it.

Oh, there's a lot of those out there.

Exactly.

And so taking that time to allow them to make the decision for themselves, and I'm thankful my wife was able to just give it to me and let me do it on my time.

Because when I think us men, when that's just geared in us, that when we're not really, we don't want to do something and somebody just like pushing us to do it, then we feel as well, we're either just going to be like, all right, well, okay, whatever, you can have it your way or we, and then we still know all in about it.

And taking that time to spend with one another in prayer and talking to each other about it.

And then also just taking that time to spend time in God's word, to be able to allow him to show you, because ultimately she couldn't convince me because she had tried.

And it was when I finally allowed the Lord to minister to me in a way in which he was saying, okay, aren't y'all one flesh?

Don't you think she's got the best mindset about this?

Don't you think she'll take this seriously if that's what she wants?

And that just reminded me, and y'all just gave me peace about it.

And I mean, the pros and cons, I began to read it.

And that's when I finally read it with a good mindset in it and really taking it.

You know, the first time I'm like, oh man, here, my wife, she's done like a huge plan like she did for our wedding.

I asked her to marry me, and a week later, she showed me a PowerPoint presentation with everything.

And so that's how she is.

And so that's what she came to me with.

So I was like, oh my.

I'm gonna need to see this PowerPoint presentation, by the way.

Oh, she's got a spiral bound booklet.

Well, if you could send me a copy, I'd appreciate it.

And the pros and cons, what got me first, and I'm sure if you ever have to go in the hospital for six days, us men have it so bad in there that we have to sleep on that little chair.

And that is an exaggeration.

Mama had the worst part of it, for sure.

But six days, and you're not in the comfort of your home, and where you're gonna be building that family, and growing that family up, why wouldn't it just start there?

And that's the way God intended it anyway, and from the beginning was right where Adam and Eve were, is where they birthed the children, and where they were gonna grow them up, you know, and it's just as natural as it could be.

And all the pros and cons, the first pro was I get to sleep in my bed when this thing gets over with, or I can go sit in my choice chair, or in my spot on the couch, you know, and be able to help mama, or do whatever I can.

I go, I don't have to drive to the store.

And like those little conveniences got my little finite mind, you know.

I'm like looking at, ooh, I'm gonna sleep in my bed, or I'm gonna be, instead of being like, well, it's probably gonna be more beneficial, and looking at all the, and I was like, I began to really think on that, and it really started clicking with me, and I saw how adamant and persuaded she was about the whole issue, and coming from how traumatic the birth was, and how much I seen my wife go through, and the pain she had to go through, and I knew that wasn't natural, and I didn't want to see her go through that again, and that was my whole outlook on it, and I remember I come back to her.

I forgot what day it was, but I came to you.

You didn't even come to me.

We were talking about it at church, because there's a group of us crunchy moms at church.

Some were scrunchy and some were crunchy.

Yeah.

Sort of crunchy and crunchy.

Her name is Crunchy Kim.

Yes, and I had had them praying for him to be receptive, and him to really come to a decision that the Lord brought him to, and not just himself.

And we were just standing around talking, because you could have started talking about home birth, and we'll talk for hours.

Can't get them out.

And he came up to us while we were talking, and just casually mentioned, oh yeah, we can have a home birth.

And he had never even come back to me with an answer.

It was just in passing.

And I think all three of us darted our heads all towards him, like, what did you just say?

Well, the Lord had to make that decision for me because in my selfishness, I wanted what I thought was best for you.

And you're the one having the baby.

And God was showing me that she's going to make a decision what's best for her baby.

And hasn't she always done that since Jubilee was born?

And you've taken care of her and done what was best for her nutritionally and physically, mentally, emotionally.

And so I couldn't refute the fact that you wouldn't think that way for the birth.

And so it was a little extreme at first.

I was like, you know, I was still at the teeter-totter, like, I said yes, but I'm still kind of iffy about this thing.

But as it progressed throughout the pregnancy, and the closer it got in the relationship, I could see the midwife beginning to build with my wife and then with me and with Jubilee and having an opportunity to see, this is the person that, when it comes, is gonna be the one.

And not just a random person.

And it settled my heart a lot more, and it gave me comfort, knowing as it went along, the ease of the strain of my mind began to lessen and lessen as the time went on.

And throughout the whole pregnancy, there was so much prayer in that, from before I even got pregnant, I put a little onesie that I found at a thrift store up beside the door, so I would see it multiple times a day, and it said, 100% natural baby.

And everybody that came over to the house would see the onesie and be like, oh, are you pregnant?

Like, no, that's just my prayer object, that whenever I do get pregnant, that this baby is gonna be 100% natural.

And just this big prayer request, and then I wanted a little boy, because we just had a little girl, and I wanted a boy.

So I found this little wooden car, and I put it up next to a sign that says, I remember the days that I prayed for what I have now.

And that was my little prayer object for a boy.

And the whole pregnancy was just engulfed in so much prayer that I would stay healthy, that I would keep my blood pressure down.

And I was taking so many supplements to keep my blood pressure down.

I mean, I was taking like 20-plus pills a day of different things just to try to keep my blood pressure down and to keep the swelling down.

And the Lord just answered prayer after prayer after prayer, first getting pregnant, first try, then having a boy that we were praying for.

And then once it got closer to the birth, I had my little affirmations post on the wall that said I would see him.

And it was things like, the Lord will strengthen with every breath.

And that was so true, even though I didn't have time to even enjoy the affirmations.

It was so fast.

But there were just so many things that you just could see God's hand intertwining everything and molding everything to be exactly what we were praying for, but then also more than that.

So I was praying, not necessarily for a fast birth, but I didn't want it to be 66 hours long.

And we also had a 20-month-old, or she would be 20 months old, and she freaks out anytime anybody's touching me or getting near me.

You know, she is so protective over me.

And I'm thinking, okay, this child is either going to try to get in the birth pool with me, or she's going to be screaming her eyes out because people are touching me and all over me.

So that was another big prayer of mine, was that she would be calm or be asleep during the whole thing.

And I was so worried about that.

But come Wednesday, I was 39 weeks, and I was so done with being pregnant.

I was miserable.

I couldn't sleep at night.

I was sleeping for maybe an hour and a half, two hours a night, just because I was so uncomfortable.

I couldn't sleep.

The pajama labor had started the middle of February, and then early labor started the end of February.

And I was so just worn out, men's sleep physically, every time I would start to call the midwife and be like, okay, it's real.

Come on.

As soon as I would pull my phone out, the contractions stopped.

It's because she didn't know what it was supposed to feel like.

Right, because you have pitocin contractions before.

And she never really went in with her water broke or any reason.

She just went in and they just, all right, we're going to start this thing artificially.

And so she didn't know.

And so it was like a whole new pregnancy.

Like we're first-time parents.

And I'm worried because I'm going to work and I'm like, I'm going to keep both of my phones, so call both of my work phone and my cell phone.

If you can't reach me, you can look me up on Life360, find somebody to come get me.

And so I could tell how she was going through this time.

It was more false alarm, so to speak.

And she didn't really know how it was going because obviously she didn't know how it is naturally.

And I can remember, like it was yesterday, the pains that she was having, the contractions she was having naturally, weren't even compared to what I saw when she was just three centimeters dilated on the pitocin.

It was bending, like the pitocin would literally cringe her up where she would hold her breath and be in agonizing pain that I've ever seen her in the whole time we've known each other.

And the contractions she was having when she was ten centimeters dilated, she just kind of bent over, like, catch her breath, and she'd stand back up.

And she wasn't even, it wasn't, and she didn't even know she was fully dilated.

I didn't know I was in labor.

Okay, so tell us the story then.

So, how did it start?

And you said it goes fast, so I'm interested to see what happened.

Well, it's probably my fault that it went quite so fast, but I think it was perfect.

So, Wednesday night, I was 39 weeks, so, and I was done.

So I started eating the core of a pineapple.

I started drinking all...

Well, I was drinking red raspberry leaf tea.

And I know that there's a lot of iffy thoughts about castor oil, but I was desperate.

And...

But the amount you drank was too much.

No, it worked perfect.

Yeah.

But I started on Wednesday, and I would have a few contractions here and there.

I tried power bumping, nothing.

So then Thursday comes along, I tried walking him out.

That didn't work.

I mean, I tried everything.

Friday, same.

Saturday, same.

And then Sunday, we have the privilege of going out and picking up bus kids on Sunday mornings for church.

And I woke up to a super intense contraction about six o'clock.

And so I got up, started power pumping, trying to get things going, and nothing.

And I'm thinking, okay, every single time I get my phone up to call somebody, my mom had taken two days off of work so that she could be here with me thinking that he'd be born.

And it just kept false alarm, false alarm.

And-

Like father of the bride, too.

Have you ever seen that?

And so I was just so, so done.

But I knew we needed to go pick up the bus kids, but I didn't want to have a contraction in the middle of it and look like I'm having an exorcism.

And so I was like, well, you go ahead and you go pick up the kids.

Call pastor, and I can go get them, and I'll just go to church, and I'll stay in the nursery, so I can watch the service on the screen, tell them I'm not a distraction to anybody.

And the whole time, I feel sorry for the security man that was back there watching the cameras in the nursery, because I'm over there doing the side squats, and the deep lunges, and everything, trying to get them out in the church, and still nothing.

So am I okay?

Well, I want Mexican for church.

We're gonna go, and I'm gonna get me some fresh jalapenos.

That's the only thing we haven't tried yet.

So we go and get my fresh jalapenos in my half order of ACP, and I still don't have any contractions.

My dad's sitting there across from us, and he's like, well, you're not having the baby today.

It'll probably be Tuesday or Wednesday before you have this baby.

All right, thanks.

I'm like, oh, thanks.

So we got home.

I went to go put my 20-month-old in the bed.

And-

And your 35-year-old was in the bed.

Yeah, and you were taking a nap.

And while I'm rocking her to sleep, I get a sharp contraction like pain.

And I think, okay, well, you know, maybe this is gonna be something.

So I start timing it.

And as I'm timing it, there's another one.

It's about three and a half minutes apart.

Oh, there's another one, another one about three and a half minutes apart.

And it just keeps going.

So I'm able to finish rocking her to sleep.

And I savored every moment looking at her face as possibly the last time I'm looking at her as my only child.

And so that I'm texting Crunchy Kim back and forth like, okay, this might be something that might not be.

And I told her how often they were coming.

And she said, girl, you need to wake John up because you don't want to give birth to his son while he's asleep on the couch.

So I went and woke him up.

I told him to go ahead and start filling the pool just in case.

I had his help to call the midwife because I couldn't talk through the contractions.

And they were coming so close together.

Her helper came.

And she was like, well, I'm dropping my son off in Greensboro.

So it's going to be a little bit before I can get there.

But I'll send my apprentice to go down there.

And I said, OK, I don't care.

Thankfully, I had bonded already with her and her apprentice.

So I was perfectly fine with her coming.

And she got here.

I called my mom, told my mom to get here.

And she's like, well, you know, I got to drop your brother and sister off at church, but then I'll get there as soon as I can.

So I'm sitting there feeling contractions, thinking, OK, well, it's doing something, but it's not nearly as painful as it was when Jubilee was born.

So it must not be that far dilated yet.

So I'm over there.

He finally gets the pool filled up.

And I get in, I'm like, oh, this is amazing.

And then I was like, well, go ahead and check me just to see.

I want to know if I'm like one centimeter or five centimeters.

I said, but either I'm going to be all the way or I'm not going to be dilated at all.

There's no in between.

And she checked me, and I'm fully thinking, I'm like maybe one or two centimeters.

And I'm just being dramatic about the pain.

And she checks me, she says, oh, well, there's the baby's head.

That's what you want to use a bath on.

Oh, that's new.

Yeah.

She had my mom go check and told John to make sure that the baby wasn't in the toilet when I got out of the bathroom because she realized how close together they were.

So then I get in the water and it's so calming.

And almost as soon as I sat down, I felt the urge to push.

And I'm thinking, okay, I didn't get to enjoy my affirmations.

I didn't get to enjoy my fairy lights.

I didn't even get to enjoy the pool water.

Straight from the hot water heater.

Yes.

Straight into the pool.

And it was so nice.

I didn't even get to enjoy it.

And but from the time I was sitting at the Mexican restaurant, eating my ACP without a single contraction, that was about 330.

He was born at 722.

Wow.

And I pushed for I think about 30 minutes.

About 45.

Yeah.

And in hindsight, if I had just waited and let my body do it without trying to push, I think it would have been a lot better.

But I had, I mean, I already told you, I was done.

I was tired of being pregnant.

He was getting out as quick as I could get them out.

And the entire time, her water had never broke.

So as she's pushing, the sack was pushing out.

I'm not a big fan of, what would, how would you call it?

Any type of bodily fluids?

Any type of bodily fluids, like just blood or any of that other stuff.

Amniotic fluid.

I'm queasy.

I'm a queasy type fella.

And the midwife was like, do you want to feel how that feels?

And it feels really crazy.

And I was like, all right, that's a little too much for me.

And the whole time, you could just feel the peace of God and just lay down in here.

I mean, the peace over Jeni, as she was going through labor, you could just see the, as she was pushing, it was just smooth and calm.

It was just as natural as it could get.

Our daughter, who doesn't like people touching mama or anything like that, she literally just sat there.

We have a picture of her.

She watched the whole time.

She patted mama's hand and held it and kissed it and was telling her shh and stuff like that.

And I mean, she just, she watched the whole entire thing.

And I was surprised.

And then she took a bath and tried to replicate giving birth to a baby in the bathtub.

She sat there in the bathtub and had her little baby and she went, uh, uh, and threw it.

Oh my gosh.

And that's exactly how he was born.

Because when her, she pushed in the sack, busted, and he come out.

My mom was supposed to catch him because we knew that he wouldn't be able to.

So you got me convinced on the home birth, but I'm not still, I'm not about catching.

Probably not.

So my mom was supposed to catch Judah when he was born.

So my mom had her watch off and everything and was getting ready, not thinking that he was going to be born right that second.

And she was getting ready.

And then when I pushed and the sack broke, and he flew out, he hit the side of the birth pool and bounced back.

Oh my gosh.

It was not catching him.

So he had his little ski mask on when the sack had popped and it was still over his face when he came out of the water.

Yeah.

And it was just so peaceful, you know.

I didn't know I was in labor, but the pushing was brutal.

The pushing made up for it.

But even still between pushes, where I'm able to catch my breath and I'm able to have that time, the Holy Spirit had just sat down all around us and it was comforting us.

And I know for me to not know I was even in labor, to have that comfort for Jubilee to be so calm as Judah was being born and not have a single problem with it, to not be jealous over him when he was born.

That's her baby.

She loves her baby.

That's her baby.

And the Lord just answered so many prayers in having the side by side of Jubilee's birth and then Judah's birth, and seeing the difference in the hospital and the home birth, the Lord willing, I will be healthy for every future child and I will never need a hospital birth.

Because if there's nothing medically urgent to have to go to the hospital for, home birth all the way.

And that's something from a dad's standpoint.

How comforting it was for me.

You know, obviously, we're not deemed as going through a lot, but what's going on through my mind is my wife's right there.

She's going through something that's very physically taxing, emotionally, mentally, and I'm caring about her entirety of her well-being, that I want her to be okay.

I want to, it's stressful in that, but not adding the stress of people coming in and out of the room every two hours, asking you and waking you up when you're already uncomfortable.

You've already been there for six days, and you're already like having to eat horrible food because you're going out and getting Taco Bell, or you're getting like some fast food, or people are bringing you food and they're bringing you Bo General's chicken boxes.

So you're eating fried food and fast food and soda, and not really having the comfort of your own home.

Like the labor, I was taking a nap.

I was able to go to church.

I wasn't stuck in a hospital all day.

I was still able to do what God's allowed us to do, pick up the kids and do and go to church, spend time with them and go eat Mexican, come back, take a nap, and then have a baby.

Wake up and have a baby.

You can't do that.

And just have the comfort that I went from literally sleeping to wake up, all right, it's time to go.

And that's what I guess men are more geared towards is, all right, we got a specific thing we got to get done, we're going to get it done.

And this, and it's like shopping with a man.

You go in and get what you came to get, and no extra type thing.

And having that luxury and the comfort that I'm going to be able to sleep in my bed, and the comfort of the man being able to be at home, and just for the whole family to be at home, is so much better.

Mama gets to heal immediately.

She went from the birth pool to our bed, that she's used to sleeping in, that she's comfortable in, that she can recuperate, and she just went through a very strenuous process, and I can relax in the comfort of what I'm normal with, instead of being in a, it's just like you go and sleep at a hotel.

You're not gonna sleep as good.

You'll sleep, but you won't sleep as good as you do at home.

And like everybody said, I can't wait to get home, and I can sleep in my own bed.

That is probably the best part about it, other than the comfort of having a normal natural birth.

But from the pros and cons standpoint, I think men would get on board just from that, from the beginning of it.

If they've ever went to the hospital for six days, I promise you, give it a shot.

Give it a try, because this is something that, in the beginning, I was skeptical about.

But now, there would be no other way, other than if it was something medically concerning.

But any other way, no.

We're doing it right here.

In the comfort of our home.

Right where we're sitting.

Yep.

under my feet.

And I will say too, for the immediate first part, the program with Judah was completely different than Jubilee, because with Judah, I had that immediate connection with him.

I had that love for him that I didn't have for Jubilee right away.

And he latched immediately, even though I let him latch for two days.

And then I said, okay, I'm back to pumping.

But he was able to latch right away.

Now, he's never slept, ever.

Even that first night when they say, oh, well, they're going to sleep the first night.

He did not sleep the first night.

But just being able to be home, and in the hospital, they don't let you co-sleep.

Right.

And I remember trying to pull myself up to get into the bassinet in the hospital with Jubilee.

And then with Judah, I had his Moses basket right beside me in the bed.

So all I have to do is just roll over.

And it was so much better recovery wise with him.

Now, I still had postpartum hormones, obviously.

But with Judah, I had postpartum rage.

And I didn't know what was wrong with me for the longest time.

And then finally, he said, you need to take some happy pills or you need to figure out something, because this is not the woman that I married.

And said, here's my little insert, advertisement, commercial, whatever you want to call it, for Pinkstork postpartum support with the ashwagandha and a bunch of other supplements in it.

It just works.

So is this like a postpartum supplement?

Yes.

It's specifically for the postpartum hormones.

And for me, that is the only thing.

I tried different homeopathy remedies.

I tried so many other things, but this is the only thing that actually helped and made me not want to wring John's neck or just scream my brains out every single day.

And, I mean, I took it the first time, and he noticed a difference in the 20 minutes.

Wow.

I don't know if that was just a placebo.

They were like, okay, I think something's working.

But eventually, within the next 24 hours, you could tell the difference in her attitude, her whole vernacular, how she was talking to people, and also with our children.

It just helped her all the way around.

And those are things that people will have to really research those things and have the ability to know that, obviously, it's not normal, but it's normal to have postpartum.

That's what your body is going through.

Pretty much when a woman's having a child, it's like they're almost dying and having the baby.

To the extent you're pushing your body to the ultimate limit to have a child, and you think your body's just gonna bounce back like that, it's not gonna happen.

And it's better to ask for help than to think that there is no help, because there is different things that you can do naturally with the homeopathy and different supplements and whatnot.

But just being educated on those areas, I'm glad she's educated in that, because I'm like, what do you...

She gives me these concoctions of different things, and I'm like, what in the world?

All these little sugar pills.

You could be killing me.

Yeah, she just...

I don't know what she's giving to me when I'm eating them.

And so, just being educated in those areas, and I mean, it was tremendously better once she began to take the supplements, because it's real and it happens.

But catching it and recognizing it, and not being scared to tell your spouse or your baby's mother that you're not acting right.

And not be rude about it, but be upfront and open and get it taken care of.

That way, you and your spouse can work together through that time frame.

And one could be the rock for the other, because she holds me up all the time and keeps me going.

So, it's the least I can do to help her as well, because that's the way God intended it, was the man and woman to work together as one, to achieve one goal, and that's the family.

And that's key.

Family's first, but mom was first before the babies.

She's always number one in the house.

She's number one.

Yep.

No, that's right, though, that husbands can't be afraid to talk to their wife about behavioral differences they notice in them, because that's very important.

They're the ones who are going to notice.

The husbands are the ones who are going to see how she's acting and how she's feeling like every moment of the day.

And it's important to address that and to help her if you feel like something is off, for sure, because a lot of times she can't see it in herself.

And not become combative or down degrading or something of that nature, not using it in a negative sense, but coming to her like really caring about it, like, hey, it's starting to affect me.

We need to get this thing taken care of before it gets out of hand.

Be proactive instead of reactive to catch it first instead of have to clean up the mess and then try to take care of it.

All right.

Well, I've heard y'all, you know, say a lot of different things throughout our time together.

But I'm curious, a couple more things.

What do you feel like God taught you through these experiences?

What do you feel like God spoke to you through either the first or the second or, you know, the transition between the two?

What do you feel like God said?

I know for me, specifically with Jubilee, I believe that one of the reasons that God allowed all of the things to happen and God allowed me to have a traumatic birth, not to say that was His will, but He allowed it because in my planning mind, I have it all planned out on this is how I'm going to do it, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and I had left God out of it.

And I think that the Lord allowed all of that to happen to remind me that it's nothing of my power.

I can't do anything.

The only thing that I can do is with His strength and with His allowing things to happen.

And with Jubilee, once I realized that that was my mindset and I was trying to control it all, then with Judah, I kind of gave up that control.

And I told the Lord in my many prayers, I have these plans, but it's your will, not mine.

And if this is not your will for me to have a home birth or your will for me to have all of these prayers that I've been praying, if what I want isn't what you want, then take those desires out of my heart, take that desire away, because I want this to be of you and not of myself, not of myself trying to control things.

And so I'm very, very thankful for how God had taught me through Jubilee's birth, that, you know, I can't, I can't control anything, and I can't plan everything.

It's God's will that will be done, not mine.

With me, it was more along the lines of, with the first pregnancy, God began to, it wasn't through the pregnancy, because I was just praying God helped me to be a good father, give me wisdom in it, and God just kept continually showing me His attributes and how He's a heavenly father, how He provides for His children, how He cares for His children, how He protects them.

And in the different attributes of God, being faithful to the things and looking at how He's a heavenly father, how He would give, like an earthly father would give good gifts and to His children, how much more would your heavenly father give to give some to you?

I was able to glean from that and be able to take those attributes and begin to apply them in my everyday life.

And once Jubilee was born, God used her so much just to like enlighten me in so many different areas of how much, how dependent I am upon Him.

So many times when she would cry and I'd give her what she needed and I'd be sitting there and just reflecting on and meditating on how much I cry out to God and He comes and picks me up and gives me what I need.

And that was more of learning how to be a father and how to be dependent upon God at the same time, because ultimately He's the best example.

Do I want to be a good father?

Well, I need to mimic and be a mirror image of what God is.

And I need to be as close to as He is, so I can be the father that God has designed me to be.

And with the second birth, it was more along the lines of trust in Him.

You know, He had shown himself faithful before, and it was more along the lines of I was overcoming my fear with faith and trusting God and His design, because in my mind, I couldn't wrap my mind around everything.

I couldn't, like, explain it and not have it all out.

And just like that, I'm not planning, but God reminded me that my ways are above your ways, my thoughts are above your thoughts.

And He has a better way, and I just had to trust Him.

And as I began to build that deeper trust in God and Christ, and God was like, see, I told you so.

He's just like, oh, ye.

That's our ongoing thing of, oh, ye.

Like, when God does something and will say, oh, ye, of little faith, where the Bible says, oh, ye, of little faith, we'll say, oh, ye, and be like, see, oh, ye.

And that's what God just reminded me, oh, ye, of little faith, just trust me.

And so there's so much, and I still just am relying upon that.

And as I began to get closer to Judah being born, I began to read Proverbs every day, and it mentions of my son, and then it gives a list of all these different things, and it has really helped implicate different things that I wanted to teach my son.

And it's just so much that God has really intertwined through each one of these births, and both of them were enlightening in different aspects, but I feel as if that was exactly what God wanted, because we didn't have any idea about a home birth first.

And now that God was like, He showed us the better way, and the natural way, and the way that He intended it to be, and He just allowed us to experience both of them, to see that God would make it so much better.

You haven't tried home birth.

He highly suggests trying home birth.

I'll put my signature on it.

I am with you, man.

I did too.

I mean, I know some people physically can't, for whatever reason, various reasons, but it's definitely more than 2% of people who can, that's for sure.

Any last advice, any last thoughts, any last things you guys want to say to parents out there, or just something you wanted to share that you hadn't gotten to yet, any last things before we wrap up?

I think we got, I think it's just clear from someone that has done their research, and this is not a flippant thought of what we went through.

It is something that we have experienced firsthand, and we're all for doing it the natural way, doing it the way God intended.

I love that.

Well, I thank you guys so much.

Thank you for being willing to be here and to share your stories and to share your heart and to share what the Lord has taught you through these experiences.

I've thoroughly enjoyed listening and watching because I can see you.

Well, thank you so much for having us.

I've been so excited about it, and just getting to share how the Lord used both births so differently, but in such an amazing way, and how God's so faithful to answer our prayers that we pray.

Thanks again for joining us today.

You can reach me at surrendered Birth Services on Instagram, or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

Be sure not to miss an episode by hitting subscribe.

Also, we love for you to leave a review of the show so that more people like you can hear more stories like these.

If you really enjoyed this episode in particular, please take a screenshot and post it to your Instagram story, tagging surrendered Birth Services.

If you're interested in taking my childbirth classes, birth consultations, or having me as your birth doula, please click on the link in the show notes to take you to my website for online and in-person options.

Just as a reminder, this show is not giving medical advice, so please continue to see your personal care provider as needs arise.

Also, if you'd like to be a guest on the surrendered Birth Stories podcast, please click the link in the episode show notes to get in touch with me.

We hope you have a great week.

And remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans, and then leave it in God's hands.

I've been so excited to be able to do this and share how we were used for both births so much.