044 - Birth Before and After Finding God (with Christine Hollis)

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SHOW NOTES:

When you’re not in relationship with the Lord, and you’re going through something as life changing as birth for the first time, things can seem pretty scary, especially if you’re navigating something as serious as postpartum psychosis, but God can and still uses these incredibly emotional situations in our lives to draw us closer to Him. Hear how God was able to work through Christine’s first birth and postpartum by calling her to Him through the darkest period of her life, and then how He was able to give her supernatural peace during her second son’s birth as she chose to trust and surrender to Him.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hey, everyone.

Hope you're having a wonderful day.

I hope June is going smoothly for you.

Hope summer is just off to a great start for you.

I know our family has been, our kids have been playing in the little, I guess you call it a kiddie pool or inflatable pool that we have on our back porch pretty much every day.

It's one of, we got it from Costco, one of those like eight by ten inflatable pools, and they just have a blast in there.

And honestly, I feel like as soon as I finally take them to a public pool, they're going to be like, we don't want to play in that pool anymore.

So I'm holding on to it for as long as the thrill is there, but so far so good.

I think we've more than gotten our money's worth out of it for sure.

And it helps because, you know, with little kids and ones who aren't great swimmers yet, it's nice to not be able to have to work or not to have to worry about, you know, drowning.

So it's great.

Hang out on the back porch, have snacks, they play in the pool.

It's a great, a great time.

Upcoming, I wanted to let you know, we do have our upcoming childbirth class soon.

So always do one per season for due dates for the next season.

So like four times a year.

So we're doing one at the end of the summer for fall babies.

So if you are due September, October, November or December, we have a class at the end of the summer.

So it's going to be July 28th is the first class on a Sunday, and all the classes will be on Sunday evenings.

There are five classes, and it goes straight in a row.

So July 28th through August 25th, every Sunday evening in there, from 5 to 7.30 at Definition Church in Greensboro.

So if you are local, please come join us for that class.

Send me a message.

Let me know you're interested or share this information with someone who you think might be interested.

That is our next group class.

I'm super excited about it.

I love, love, love teaching childbirth classes.

It's probably my favorite thing to do.

Maybe besides dancing or baking sourdough.

I don't know.

I have a lot of things I love to do, but I absolutely love teaching this class.

So it's the first time we've made it five classes.

It used to be four, but time and time again, I just feel like there's not enough time, and there's so much information, and we have to go a little too fast.

So we're spreading it out into five classes, and hopefully that will help with the pacing, which will be good.

So yeah, let me know if you're interested, or if someone's interested.

We would love to have you join that class with, you know, other groups of parents who are going through the same thing that y'all are going through.

Now let's get in to this week's episode.

When you're not in relationship with the Lord, and you're going through something as life-changing as birth for the first time, things can seem pretty scary, especially if you're navigating something as serious as postpartum psychosis.

But God can and still uses these incredibly emotional situations in our lives to draw us closer to Him.

Hear how God was able to work through Christine's first birth in postpartum by calling her to Him through the darkest period of her life.

And then how He was able to give her supernatural peace during her second son's birth as she chose to trust and surrender to Him.

Welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I'm going to have my guest introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her and her family and her life.

Great.

Hey, Kayla.

I'm so excited to be here.

I'm just really honored.

And we were talking a little bit prior to recording about just hoping that this message that I'm sharing, and I think what you're creating here is to glorify God and just open the door to the amazing, wonderful God that we serve and just bring people to Christ.

So hopefully, I do that in my story.

So yeah, I'm Christine Hollis.

I was born in Greensboro and currently live in Kernersville with my husband and two kids.

I have two boys, three and a half year old son named Sterling and a 15 month old named Eli.

They keep me very busy, very busy.

I'm definitely full-blown boy mom.

I stay at home full time with them, and we are always in the mud or in the creek or playing in water or riding our bikes.

We're a very active family.

And prior to having kids, I worked at Lululemon and really enjoyed my time there.

And I was also a CrossFit coach at various gyms in Greensboro.

Oh, cool.

That's fun.

I'm a boy mom too.

I have four boys.

So I'm right there with you.

I mean, we're in the season of baths every single night.

Yeah, it's always dirt somewhere.

Dirt, sweat, mud, yeah, all the things.

Well, I'm excited to hear about these stories of your two boys.

So why don't you go ahead and start by telling us about your first pregnancy?

How did you find out?

What was that like?

So my first pregnancy was in 2020.

I think I found out late February of 2020 and was not super shocked.

My husband and I had been intentional about trying to start our family for probably about a year.

In late February, I just was feeling a little off, so I took a pregnancy test, came out positive.

We were both so excited.

And then as we all know, three weeks or so later, the whole world shut down and it was just like we were in the twilight zone.

My husband and I kept like over the course of 2020, we're just like, what is happening right now?

So many things just got flipped on their heads in our lives, as well as so many others that we know.

And yeah, pregnancy was my first, was filled with the unknown about whether or not he would be allowed in the hospital.

I mean, policies were changing all the time.

Just anxiety about the world in general, so much was changing.

And then through that, there was also a silver lining of it bringing us closer together, because I was still working at Lululemon at the time, and it was such a blessing.

They provided us with our full income during that time.

We were staying at home, and then eventually we went back in the stores at a limited capacity.

Yeah, it just was like very restful.

And Chris was working from home as well, and it just brought us so close.

I think that out of all the chaos of that year, that was such a silver lining for us, going into such a big change for us with the birth of our first kid.

So your husband's name is Chris and your name is Christine?

I know.

I joke that we're C squared.

That's cute.

My husband's name is Chris too.

Oh, sweet.

Chris is a good one.

Yes, it is.

So how did that pregnancy go physically then?

Was it pretty smooth or were there any issues or bumps or anything?

So it was a pretty smooth pregnancy.

I was really active prior to getting pregnant and was still able to maintain some level of fitness, although it looked different having to work out at home instead of at the gym or going on runs.

So it just modified a bit.

But eventually the CrossFit gym, I was going to open back up and we were working out outside.

And so I was able to do exercises, felt really energized, didn't really have any sickness.

I started to experience podromal labor pretty early, which I'll go into the whole birth story later.

But around 36 weeks, I started to get some podromal labor, maybe even earlier than that.

But yeah, pregnancy was great.

And it was the same way with my second one, too.

Just felt really energized and didn't have much sickness at all, except for, I guess, the first trimester fatigue.

But it could have been a lot worse.

Yeah.

Well, that's such a blessing.

That's wonderful.

So then how did you go about choosing your care for that pregnancy?

Was it something you had thought about or researched ahead of time, or is that something you kind of had to do on the spot once you were pregnant?

Yeah, I definitely was more in the camp of figuring out on the spot.

For the first pregnancy, I knew I wanted a doula, and I stayed with my OB-GYN that I was with.

So I was out of practice in Greensboro, did the rounds at all the physicians throughout the pregnancy.

My doula actually was my high school Spanish teacher.

Oh, that's so fun.

So it was really sweet to have her there at the birth, and she knew me too, which I felt like was really cool, especially with COVID being so limited with the interactions that you get with people.

That's really cool.

So were you planning a natural birth because you had a doula, or were you just trying to have her there for any kind of support, and you were just kind of going to see what happened?

Yeah, so I had planned for a natural birth in the sense of unmedicated.

I was thinking having a doula would be kind of like having a coach for something.

If you're going to run your first marathon or you're going to go try something brand new, you're probably going to want to coach for that, somebody that's more knowledgeable than you to help guide you through it.

And so that's why I wanted to get a doula.

I think that's wise.

I think that's very wise.

Okay, so then how far along were you then when you did go into labor?

What did that look like?

Yeah, so I mentioned the Padroma labor.

I had Padroma labor, the Braxton Hicks pretty early on, and being the first, I didn't really understand what it felt like to truly go into labor.

And so I was always like, oh, this is it.

This is it.

I'm having those contractions.

And I finally went into labor, I guess, around 39 weeks and six days.

So I was pretty much full term at that point.

Yeah, the birth just was my first.

Night and day different than my second for a lot of reasons.

But with that first, first of all, I think I should mention that my husband and I had had conversations about our faith up till that point.

We grew up going to church, but I think we kind of fell away.

And at some point, we felt very apathetic towards towards Christ and towards the church in general and didn't really have a desire to to revisit that until we were ready to start a family.

And we realized like this pulling of our heart to try to figure out like what's missing and really just like the heart of what we want to bring into our family.

Like what do we value?

And so we had started to have some conversations around faith prior to Sterling being born.

So to bring it back to that birth story, I started to have some consistent contractions.

And at that point, being 39-ish weeks, I was already four centimeters dilated, fully effaced.

And so again, like thinking, whoa, like I could really go into labor at any point now.

And also with like the guidance of the doctors that I was saying, they were saying the same things too.

And so I wait at home for a little bit and then start to feel anxious about not making it to the hospital in time.

And I think there's like a control that I was still holding on to of like my time.

Like I can have control over the time of when this baby is going to be born, like not really releasing it.

And so I get to the hospital.

Our doula is like, well, just text me if they admit you, because I don't know if this is, you know, real labor or not.

We'll just see what they say whenever you get there.

And I get there and they have a tough time finding my cervix because it's far back behind the baby's head because he's so down in my pelvis.

And they're like, you're seven centimeters dilated.

And I'm just like talking to them like I am to you.

And I'm like, really?

I don't think, I don't know.

How long had you been laboring at home for?

Not long, only for maybe like four hours.

And how close together were your contractions?

They were only like, I would say probably four to five minutes.

Wow.

And yeah, so I get to the hospital, they finally find cervix and say that I'm seven centimeters dilated.

And they admit me and we get really excited.

And our doula comes and she helps me continue to labor and progress it.

And then at some point, it stalls.

And so we've been there basically all night.

And now I think it's morning time.

And they're like, we probably could break your water in order to have the baby come faster in order to progress.

And I was really nervous to get that and the feeling of breaking the water because the cervical exam was so painful.

And just a lot of fear about getting them to break my water and having to experience that pain again.

And so I ended up getting an epidural, which was not part of my original plan and hope.

And so get my water broken and after the epidural.

And then things just kind of are a standstill and just slowly moving along at that point.

So did you stall at a seven then and stay at a seven like all night long?

Yeah, so I hadn't moved past a seven.

I think until, and it's all kind of like fuzzy, because at that point, I'm just tired.

And so at some point, I am able to push.

Sterling's heartbeat starts getting a little funky.

It's like going up and down, and my husband notices it and is asking the nurses what they think.

And they're like, oh, yeah, maybe we should keep an eye on that.

Like during contractions?

Yeah, during contractions.

And then Jessica's like, I can, or I'm sorry, that was my doula.

She's amazing.

So she's like, I think I see baby's head.

Like, let's push.

Or do you feel like you need to push?

Because she's trying to help me tap into that feeling of an intuitive, like, let's let your body do what it's supposed to do.

And this was your doula.

Who could see the baby's head?

Yes.

And so she's helping me, guiding me through all this process too.

And all along, she's asking me, like, is this what you want to do?

She's still trying to keep me on track, but also being very respectful of what I want in that moment too.

So what time of day is this now?

Just so I can get a picture.

I think it's at like 12 o'clock at PM.

So I get to the hospital at 12 AM, and then they admit me, and now it's 12 PM.

It's like 12 hours.

Yes.

Had anyone checked you at this point?

I mean, I assume you're complete, considering she could see his head.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think at that point, he was starting to crown.

I remember them saying that the doctor was in a C-section, and that I needed to wait in order to finish pushing.

And then...

I think that's hilarious when people say that.

Like, I'm sorry.

Your natural body is going to have to wait in this moment, because this other person who we want to deliver your baby is not there.

I know, I know.

And really, I'll get to this later, but with the second pregnancy, there was just so much more knowledge I had behind so many things, planning and then with the birth for that second one.

But yeah, so they eventually...

I'm pushing, and then his heart rate goes down really quickly, and they end up using a vacuum, and she's like, you have one push to get him out, or else we're going to have to go for a C-section.

And so I pushed with all my might, and he comes out, and I just remember this feeling of disassociation.

I'm just not connected to this baby that came out in that moment in the way that I thought I would be.

My body feels way out of control.

There's a million nurses in the room that have just swarmed in suddenly at the last second, which thank God they did, because there are a lot of things that can happen in that moment, and they're all there to support at that point.

And so, yeah, there's just feeling very, very confused.

And for the next, like, three days, just feeling very confused, like, postpartum in general.

Where do you think that stemmed from?

Well, I think lack of sleep, one.

I think, two, just not really trusting God.

Like, I didn't have that relationship with him at that point.

I didn't have him to rest on.

And I think a lot of it was also being very naive.

I had a lot of people that would tell me, because I was active prior to getting pregnant, that birth would be fine.

Like, you're fit, you're, like, in shape.

You've got some, you know, you're able to push through workouts.

Like, you can definitely have a natural birth.

And I think that fitness helps you in a lot of ways through pregnancy and through birth, but I think that there's a piece of that that's not true.

That just because you're in shape doesn't mean you'll get the birth that you desire.

There's other pieces there.

Oh, yeah.

And just because you're in shape doesn't mean it's going to be easy, especially if you're, you know, focusing on what you're feeling.

I'll say it has a lot less to do with your physical shape than it does like where you are mentally during labor.

Absolutely.

So you're feeling disconnected from him.

You're not feeling that instant bond, which also, you know, birth education background, epidurals can do that too.

Like block all those hormones that are released when your baby is born.

Like you're still receiving the hormones, but your brain is not interpreting the way it would if you didn't have the epidural because it's blocking that.

And so your hormones can't be used to your advantage in terms of bonding with the baby in that moment.

Not to say that if you get an epidural, you're not going to be able to bond with your baby.

Not at all.

Because I had an epidural my first time, and I definitely bonded with her.

But I was just saying that could be just another piece of the puzzle that seems to be multiple factors here.

Yeah, absolutely.

I could see that.

So how did that affect then the rest of your postpartum?

So lack of sleep from that birth experience, and then just continuing to not be able to sleep while I was in the hospital, feeling unable to control my emotions, feeling extremely weepy and weak, and a lot of anxiety about not being able to walk.

I think I stayed in bed probably for that whole first day afterwards as well, and just felt extremely weak.

And yeah, the sleep thing was the biggest thing.

I had such an anxiety about sleeping, and I don't know if it necessarily stemmed from my worry that if I was sleeping, that Sterling wouldn't be taken care of, or worry about that necessarily.

I think I just was so filled with cortisol and stress and just overall anxiety from probably the last 2020, the whole year of just anxiety being an underlying feeling.

And yeah, forgot to sleep basically for three days.

That bled into eight weeks of honestly hell.

It was awful.

So those first three days, didn't sleep.

I ended up going back to the Behavioral Health Center from Women's Hospital.

Okay, so let me back up.

So we get discharged from Women's Hospital, and then we go home.

I try to fall asleep in my bed, and I tell my husband that I'm starting to have really dark thoughts.

And I'm able to rationalize, like, I'm not sleeping.

I know I just had a baby.

My hormones are out of control.

So these aren't true thoughts that I would ever act on, but I'm having them.

And I'm really nervous.

I'm really worried.

And so my sister-in-law, who's a paramedic, and my other sister-in-law, who's in Charlotte, they immediately come in in order to help support us, so that way I can go back to Women's Hospital.

And then they end up admitting me over to the Behavioral Health Center.

And at that point, I'm going on probably four days of no sleep, and I'm very confused as to what is happening.

Why am I here feeling like a prisoner at the Behavioral Health Center and just like at a loss for words and in an extremely dark place?

And it was like God that pulled me through that.

And I just throughout the next couple of weeks, I kept going to like a dark place, and I just had this visual of like a golden lasso pulling me forward.

That was like the only thing whenever I was in those dark times that was moving me, was this like golden lasso of hope coming from God to just say like, I've got you.

I know this is scary, but I need you to rely on me.

And so that's like that brought me to Him.

I love that.

I love the visual of that, like pictures like when God gives us images and speaks to us through visions like that.

When you went there three days postpartum back to the hospital, was your husband with you or were you by yourself?

So he was with me.

He drove me to the hospital, and my sister-in-law stayed with Sterling.

And it was so funny.

I was like so worried about his sleep.

I was like, he hasn't gotten any sleep either.

Go home.

I'm fine.

I'm here at the hospital now.

They'll take care of me thinking they'd probably give me an ambient or something.

Yeah, to help you sleep.

To help me out.

And so he ends up leaving, and then I stay.

So your sister-in-law's are with your baby.

So then were you doing any sort of like pumping or nursing, or what was your feeding journey like?

So I remember the lactation consultants coming in at the hospital.

Sterling was latching great.

I had milk that was coming out.

I couldn't really comprehend what they were saying about nursing and when the milk would come in and all of that because of just the state I was in.

And so when I'm at the Behavioral Health Center, my boobs start to feel really hard, and I'm like extremely sweaty.

And I think one of the nurses was like, I think your milk is coming in.

And then I was like, okay, I'll call my husband, and he can bring a pump.

And so he ends up bringing me my pump, and I'm just there pumping, not really sure how to do it or what to expect whenever the milk is coming out, how much to expect, and just trying to pump as much as I can while I'm there.

Okay, so how long were you there for, and did they give you some sort of diagnosis, or were you like...

So I was there for only probably less than a day.

So I got admitted, I slept there that next night.

And all this is happening in the course of like five days, from the birth to the behavioral health center.

And so I only stayed there one night, because the next day, I get a little bit of sleep that night.

The next day, I feel a little bit better.

But yeah, I go to see there, like you should go see some of the psychiatrists that are here.

And so I talked to them, and I'm like, here's like my full history of everything that is like my life.

Here's what I just went through.

I got admitted because I was having like these dark thoughts, and I would never act on them.

Like I don't truly want any of those things.

I just was fearful because of even having these thoughts.

So the psychiatrist there wanted me to stay longer, but I was like, I need to be at home with my baby.

And my husband was, he was supportive of whatever I felt like I needed, but he was encouraging me to come home too.

Like, I think that you need to be around us.

I think that we can find you some care here at the home so that you can be with Sterling, you can be with your baby.

And so through that encouragement, I ended up advocating for myself to leave after spending the night there for one night.

So you felt confident after that night of sleep that you knew it was the lack of sleep and the hormones.

And it sounds like you're pretty level-headed about what you were thinking about.

And just to give some clarity for people out there who are listening who might be confused, it's very normal for most women to experience something called the baby blues, which is just where your hormones are going crazy.

You just had a baby, they're trying to leave your system, milk's coming in, all these things are happening, and you end up having really strong emotions and getting really sad, sometimes really anxious, really angry, things like that, just temporarily.

But they don't stop you from living your life and you still really love your baby, everything's really great.

But when something like that gets worse and lasts longer, like more than the first couple days or first couple weeks, and gets more intense and starts interfering with your ability to live your daily life, that's when it stems into postpartum depression or postpartum rage or postpartum anxiety, things that are just affecting you.

You're not able to go about normal activities because of all of those feelings.

But what you are describing with the dark thoughts, and you don't have to name those dark thoughts either.

We can probably assume in our head maybe what some of those were.

But when you get to that point, that's where it is a borderline postpartum psychosis, is what they call it.

And you guys did the right thing by getting help, by going and seeking help if you're having thoughts like that.

Now, thankfully, you know that it was hormones and lack of sleep affecting that.

But had you not gone and gotten help, had you not gone and gotten sleep, that could have easily gotten worse very quickly.

And so you did the right thing by going and getting help.

And I think that's great so that it didn't turn into full-blown postpartum psychosis where you're having completely irrational thoughts of doing things to yourself or your baby that would be detrimental and fatal and permanent.

And so for those people out there, postpartum psychosis is not anything to ever mess with.

And if you feel like, even for a little bit, that you have something, that is something where you want to go seek help immediately.

But it sounds like you did, and you got some sleep, and you got help that you needed, and you had that level head.

And then you were able to then feel good enough, both you and your husband, about coming home and kind of reuniting and starting to bond with Sterling.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that was my big worry was postpartum psychosis.

And it was a term I hadn't heard before.

My doula mentioned it because I told her what was happening.

And so I had a really big fear of that because it's scary.

Going to go to the Behavioral Health Center was absolutely the right thing.

As traumatic as it was, it was the right thing to do.

And eventually, I was able to get on an antidepressant.

And my husband and I felt like we were able to have resources, thankfully, that we could help support to kind of bring me out of that spot.

So going to therapy, going and getting on the antidepressant.

I listened to a lot of prayer at that time too through the Christian Hypnobirthing app.

And yeah, I mean, through all that, I was able to call my way out of that darkness.

How long did that go on for?

It went on for about eight weeks until things started to turn the corner.

I'm glad you were able to get that help that you needed.

That's wonderful.

I'm glad that you guys took advantage of the resources at your disposal, because I feel like a lot of women don't realize, A, that they need help, or B, that there are resources out there to help them.

Yeah, and I think that there's a lot of shame that's felt around it, at least I did, of shame and embarrassment.

Like, I can't believe I'm going through this, and not really wanting to speak about it, because, yeah, just like fear of what others might think.

Yeah, I think just like, again, just those feelings of shame and embarrassment.

Yeah.

And then, like I said, the birth story for my second was so night and day different.

It was just very redemptive, very healing.

So then, how did you and your husband go about deciding to have number two?

Yeah, so with number two, we were...

I was really nervous to get pregnant again, and I got pregnant again at 18 months with Eli.

So Sterling was 18 months.

Eli was conceived around like April.

And we found out right after my sister got married in May.

And yeah, I was very nervous getting pregnant with a second.

Nervous that something like that would happen again throughout that year.

Like I mentioned, God was using that in order to bring me to Him.

We had started to go to church and found a great church to go to for us at that time that we were in and ended up getting baptized and started reading Scripture more and really understanding more about like His love for us and what it means to trust Him.

And we knew that we wanted a second at some point, and we wanted the kids to be close.

And so we just felt like it was the right time to try again, and we ended up getting pregnant pretty quickly.

And so yeah, I got pregnant with our second one.

And throughout that pregnancy, just really focused on like releasing control.

And I had like a scripture verse that I was using just as like a guiding light through that pregnancy.

And it was Philippians 4 verse 6.

And that was just like I said, just like a light for that pregnancy.

It was like a lantern to help guide us.

And I think he was able to bring in like me to different resources that I hadn't considered before, because again, just naive with that first pregnancy.

Philippians 4 verse 6, that's be anxious about nothing, pray about everything.

Is that that verse?

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I just loved that verse.

I think I have it.

Yeah, it's do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your request to God.

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Yeah, so that just like really spoke to me during that pregnancy.

Not only the part about don't be anxious about everything, but in every situation by prayer and petition, give thanksgiving, like just thank God and have gratitude for everything that he provides us with.

And so that was the overall scripture that was guiding me through that pregnancy.

And then we ended up switching to another church that is right in our neighborhood actually, so we get to walk to church every Sunday, which is such a blessing.

It's a close-knit community.

We immediately felt welcome as soon as we came to the first service.

And I love that it's a type of service where people can raise their hand and say, Pastor, I have a prayer request.

Do you think we could pray about this?

Or like, I have a question about what you just said about that scripture, about that sermon.

So we just felt like it was a good fit for us.

And just learning so much about God, even in this current season I'm in too, there's just such a depth to His love for us and His mercy and goodness.

And yeah, still figuring it all out too, and all the theology behind it and all that.

So anyway, second birth, all the pregnancy again felt fine physically, mentally starting to feel more and more energized and excited and just connected to Eli.

That was something that I did differently this time among other things, but really focusing on putting my hands on my belly and imagining Him, imagining me holding Him, thanking God for Him, and really trying to connect to Him as like a baby and not just this thing that's kicking me.

How do you feel like your new faith played into planning your second birth?

Do you feel like that affected your plan?

Did you guys make any changes in terms of what you were planning to do for the second birth?

So I felt like I was just much more trusting of my body, much more trusting of the Lord, but the body He gave me, and my body's ability to...

He gave me this baby, and I have the ability to birth him.

And just much more trusting of the process, and seeing like birth is this beautiful thing.

I remember watching birth videos with my first and being like, whoa!

But with my second, I was like, this is so cool.

This is just miraculous.

Like, what a miracle that we get to witness and that we get to experience.

And just being like such a celebration and excitement around the birth instead of like this anxiety that I had with the first.

I love that.

I had a similar experience.

I didn't even want to see any birth videos for my first because I was so freaked out by them.

And I just remember like the three I was forced to watch.

I was just like, oh, oh.

I don't want anything to do with that.

But yeah, I felt really similar after I had my first.

I was like, oh, this was amazing.

And I want to see all the birth videos.

Yes.

And I think that there's like, I mean, even at the root, I guess just even like at one layer of it is just a desensitization.

Right.

Like in our culture, we don't really see birth that often, except for maybe in like home ec and high school.

But it is such a natural thing.

And if you're going to go through it, then I think it makes sense to like witness it often.

Right.

Yeah.

That's because hundreds of years ago, you would have like, well, okay, at least if you were the female in the family, you know, you would have witnessed, you know, your mother, your aunt, or somebody, a cousin, you know, going through birth before you had to.

So it was a lot less, you know, scary and a lot more normal and just regular.

Yeah, absolutely.

One other thing that I was just thinking of was I still, just to mention, like, I still had some anxiety during that time too.

So I don't want to make it seem like, all right, I'm a believer now, like, no anxiety.

Because I mean, I still struggle with some anxiety and I struggled during that pregnancy.

And the difference there was I felt like a true peace and rest whenever I was talking to God about it.

And I didn't have that same thing with the first, because I didn't have a relationship with them.

Yeah, it makes such a difference.

So tell us about the second birth then.

How did it all go down?

So it went down very quick.

It started to become very similar to sterlings and the prodromal labor.

And I knew, wait as long as you can.

I had even talked to my doctors.

I switched providers at that point.

So I'm at another practice at Winston that I love.

I think it's very patient focused.

They take their time with their patients.

There's midwives mixed with OBs, and I just feel very heard and respected.

Ask them all the questions about what positions can I deliver in, because at that point, I had done tons of research about different birth positions and many other things related to birth.

So yeah, I felt very supported and trusted those providers.

And so I had that prodromal labor for a bit.

And at 40 weeks, I ended up getting a membrane sweep because my doctor again just said like, hey, you're just at like, again, four centimeters, like you're fully effaced.

You could get a membrane sweep if you want, but you don't have to.

I was just like, well, we'll just see what happens.

It could work, it could not.

And so I get it at 12 p.m.

on my due date, and he's born at 4 p.m.

Oh, my goodness.

I labor at home for about three hours.

Labor picks up fast and furious, and I get to the hospital, and I'm in that like active stage of labor.

I can't talk, I'm sweaty, I'm having to stop and moan and do my breathing exercises during contractions.

And as they're doing the check, my water breaks, and then I end up switching to getting into all fours to labor.

And then he comes out in two pushes.

And it's just incredible.

Like the doctor comes in right at the right time.

All the nurses at the hospital were just incredible.

They were so supportive.

The birthing suite that I was at had the birth tub, but I got in for two seconds and was like, I need to push, like I need to get out.

Yeah, I labored on all fours for maybe like five minutes, and then I felt like I needed to push, and definitely went through that last stage of, I don't want to do this, I don't think I can do this, get me out of here, fight or flight.

Yes, in my mind, I was like, okay, that means he's almost here.

Right.

So then, yeah, two pushes, he comes out, and they hand him to me from underneath, and I cut his umbilical cord.

And I just like, I'm able to pick him up and kiss him and hold him.

And it's just like, again, so healing, so redemptive, and just, yeah, just very, very empowering.

And, you know, God be the glory for all of that.

Like, by His grace, that was what happened, part of the plan.

So I'm just so incredibly grateful.

And it was just, again, very healing.

So then did you feel like that instant bond and connection with Him that time?

Yeah, I did.

I'm so glad.

And, I mean, I don't want to assume, but do you feel like that played into how your postpartum went the second time around?

Yeah, absolutely.

I felt so calm and so peaceful.

I even sent my husband home to go check on my son Sterling and say good night to him, leaving me at the hospital with the baby to have some cuddle time and nursing him and everything.

And then he went to go pick up Indian food for us.

And it was just, yeah, I just felt very calm and peaceful.

And it was almost like it had just happened, obviously, but it was almost like nothing had changed, except for everything had changed.

I don't know if that makes sense.

It was like I'm still the same person that I was prior.

And I think that there was some fear, of course, of the postpartum coming back.

So we had talked to our provider about that and had made sure that there were things in place, if things did go south again.

But yeah, I felt very calm afterwards, felt very much still like myself, and yes, very peaceful.

Good.

I didn't ask, so were you able to continue nursing your son the first time?

So I stopped about eight weeks because of the sleep situation.

I just really needed to prioritize sleeping.

And so I stopped nursing in order to focus on sleep.

Yeah.

For Eli, we figured out a good strategy for us in order for me to still be able to sleep, but also have success with nursing as well.

Okay.

So did you go on to nurse Eli then for a while?

I did.

Yeah, I nursed him until he was one.

Oh, cool.

I love this.

I mean, obviously, I don't love that you had the first experience that you had, but that you were pulled into a relationship with the Lord because of that experience.

And he was able to give you this other experience that helped redeem that situation and make it seem like he worked it all together for good.

So what do you feel like?

Is there anything else that you haven't mentioned that you feel like God taught you through all of these experiences?

Mm-hmm.

Well, I think I mentioned just ultimately trusting him and his plans.

And I think what else he taught me was to surrender to him, to rest in him.

And like I mentioned with the anxiety, anytime I would feel that casting that onto him would be through prayer, through scripture and meditating on that.

You know, through my young adulthood, like through college and then to early 20s, I think I've tried to find some solution to the feeling of unrest that I think we all kind of have a little bit of personal development books.

And even like dabbling in crystals kind of playfully, not even seriously, but just like I'm the solution to my own problems kind of thing.

I've just realized like we're not the solution to our problems.

We are broken in a broken world, and the only person that can redeem us and can be sufficient is Christ.

Right.

Amen.

So then going through this, mom of two, two totally different experiences, what advice do you have for other moms out there?

I think one thing would be that if you are having a tough time in any season of pregnancy, birth, or postpartum, or trying to get pregnant and to just seek help, and I think get curious about your faith, and yeah, your relationship with God, relationship with others around you, and leaning on those that love you.

And then for the postpartum period, I think that you should plan for that as much as you plan for the birth.

So in your birth plan, and then even in just after baby comes, planning for baby, I'm going to do the nursery and all that, like all that can really wait.

It's totally fine and super cute, all the baby things, but they're very minimal, and really the priority is taking care of them obviously, but also taking care of yourself, and thinking about your postpartum plan as much as you're thinking about your birth plan.

And also talking with your partner about the expectations that you both are going to have for quality time with each other, for sleep, and thinking about the sibling too.

So one thing that Chris and I did the second time that we felt was really successful on our journey with breastfeeding was we did shifts.

So he would do, let's say, from like 8 p.m.

to 2 a.m.

of watching the baby.

So he could sleep, and I could sleep too.

That's when I would focus on sleeping.

And if the baby woke up, he would just bring him to me, to nurse, and do everything else.

So if he was crying and fussy, or if he needed a diaper change, I knew I could rely on Chris to do that, and I would go back to sleep.

And then from maybe like 2 p.m.

or 2 a.m.

to like 7 p.m.

would be my shift.

And that's when I would do what he was doing, and he knew that all he had to do was sleep.

So I think doing something like that and just thinking through the logistics of taking care of baby and making sure expectations are clear and that your needs are getting met as well.

And also eating nourishing food, too.

I read, I can't remember what it's called, something about the first 40 days, I think.

Yeah, that's exactly what it's called, the first 40 days.

That was such a good book.

The recipes are really good, too.

And I made a few of them, I froze them, I made tons of bone broth, and just didn't stick necessarily to only eating warm foods or that sort of thing, but definitely eating nourishing foods during that time.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, that's a great book.

And I can link that in the show notes, because that is a book I recommend for sure.

I actually read it for the first time this past pregnancy for my fifth, and I'm like, why didn't I read this sooner?

Wow.

Yeah, did you feel like it made a difference for you too?

Oh, yeah.

And it's funny because I don't know if this is because I read about it or if it's because I really did crave it, but this time, I really did.

And we were going into the fall, so maybe that was part of it, but I really did want just warm, home-cooked food.

I didn't want takeout.

I didn't want anything from a restaurant or anything.

I wanted whatever had to be made at home.

And it's funny because it was like, people would bring us food, which was amazing.

And my husband and kids would be off eating burgers, fries, whatever.

And I was just like, I want some really protein, fiber-packed oatmeal.

Like really hot, warm with pecans and pumpkin and all this.

It was just like, and that's all I wanted.

So it was funny that, yeah, I'm like, did the book play into that or did I really want that?

I don't know, but it worked out well.

Well, do you have anything else you want to share before we end?

I think I want to say too that I didn't have that initial connection with Sterling as a baby as soon as he was born, but we have such a solid connection now.

So I think I just want to say that too, that if you're not feeling that immediately after birth, hang in there, it'll come.

That love, you have that special bond still.

Because I was a little worried for a while that, like, oh, I let him down, he's not going to love me.

And it's just not true.

He's such a sweet kid.

And then the other thing too, I did a fitness program through my second pregnancy that I really liked, and a birth course through Mama Stay Fit.

Love, love, love their content on Instagram.

And they're in North Carolina too, but I did a birth course with them back in January.

That was just awesome.

I think that they have great resources.

So just wanted to plug that in there too.

Does it have like pregnancy fitness and like postpartum fitness and stuff like that?

Yes.

So it's a midwife and a doula.

The doula has their sisters, and the doula is also an exercise scientist as well.

And so they have resources related to pregnancy, birth, and postpartum through exercise.

And also the birth course I took was through them as well.

And so they have, I liked it because it was like, here's what's anatomically happening as the baby's like coming down and different exercises or movement patterns that you can do in order to help your pelvis move for like the outlet, the inlet, the mid pelvis.

And so that was all like new information to me.

And just to think visually seeing that and hearing that in the birth video like made so much sense prepping for the second one.

Yeah.

Yeah, like knowing the different parts of the body and how they're moving as the baby's coming out.

Yeah, something about that visual clicked.

Good.

It probably helped that you are also a fitness guru, it sounds like already.

Maybe not guru, but definitely interested in all that.

Thank you so much for having me.

Just such an honor.

Thank you for doing this.

I really, really appreciate it.

Thanks again for joining us today.

You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

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