045 - Invite the Right People Into Your Birth Space (with Katie Clay)

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Sometimes in our naivety, we make decisions that, with more information, we wouldn’t have. And those decisions can lead to unfortunate experiences, especially when it comes to our births. Listen as Katie explains each of her three birth stories, two in the hospital and one at a birth center, and how she learned to have faith that God designed her body to deliver these babies, and that she absolutely could.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hello, everybody.

Happy Independence Day week, Happy Fourth of July week.

Whatever day you're listening to this, it is the week of our nation's birthday.

We're excited every single Fourth of July.

I think we started about five years ago.

We take a trip to, and it's the only trip actually that we definitely take every year.

We don't take very many trips.

But we take a trip every year to go see my grandparents in West Virginia.

I still have three of my four living grandparents, and they live within like five minutes of each other.

So we go see my granny and my grandpa, and then we go see my papa.

And they are in their 80s and 90s and just live in life, and it's so much fun.

And so we go and stay at their house, and we go to this great ice cream place called the Dairy Cream Corner, and we go every night because we only go once a year.

So it just seems fitting that we go every night.

We eat great pizza.

There's a pizza place called Calasasino's.

It's delicious.

It's absolutely phenomenal.

Like super thick crust, like deep dish pizza.

It's really good.

Fairmont is also like the hot dog capital of the world.

So there's always like a hot dog stop.

There's like all these hot dog shops everywhere, which is kind of funny because you definitely have don't have that here in North Carolina.

And they're also known for pepperoni rolls, which is like exactly what it sounds like.

It's like pepperoni rolled up inside of a roll.

And it's absolutely delicious.

Maybe not if you have prosmia, but it is absolutely delicious.

And so it's like we go and we hang out.

And my granny and grandpa have this front porch that I've grown up on.

And they have this porch swing that's been there ever since I was born.

And that's what we do.

We sit on the porch and we talk and we have coffee and the kids play.

And we just have so much fun.

And we always go for the Fourth of July.

So there's fireworks that you can see right from their house.

And we sometimes go, I have an aunt and uncle there who have like a boat and some stuff on the river there.

So sometimes we go there.

They have a big wave pool called Wave Tech, which is the pool I grew up taking swimming lessons at and going when I used to live there when I was born.

And we have such a blast.

We take the kids there.

They love it.

It's just this annual really fun trip that we look forward to every single year.

And we will keep going as long as they're there.

We will be there every 4th of July.

So I'm really excited to do that.

But I'm also really excited to introduce this week's episode.

Sometimes in our naivety, we make decisions that, with more information, we wouldn't have.

And those decisions can lead to unfortunate experiences, especially when it comes to our births.

Listen as Katie explains each of her three birth stories, two in the hospital, and one at a birth center, and how she learned to have faith that God designed her body to deliver these babies and that she absolutely could.

Well, welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I am excited to have Katie with me today.

Katie, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself.

Tell us a little bit about you and your family and your life.

So my name is Katie.

My husband's name is Adam.

We got married in 2017.

He was actually a family friend of my brother-in-law, and that is how we met, and the rest is history.

We have four beautiful children.

I was blessed to have, I have a bonus daughter.

She is 13 now, but she was 5 when we started dating.

And then we have three more beautiful kids.

After that, Titus is 5 and a half, Rowan is 3, she just turned 3, and Murphy, little baby Murphy is 9 months.

And Adam is a high school English teacher and football coach.

I work full time in the construction industry.

I serve on the worship team at our church.

I love that.

It's a big part of ministry for me and serving, and I love doing that.

So that is us.

And I love seeing you there.

We go to the same church, so that's always fun.

For a long time, we've both been there.

You know, a really long time.

I'm going on almost two decades now, not quite.

We're at 17 years and counting.

I know.

Time passes by so quickly, somehow.

Okay.

But we're here to talk about your birth stories today, which I'm so excited about.

So tell me about getting pregnant for the first time.

How did that go?

How did you find out?

What was that like?

Oh, gosh.

Well, I'll start with this, that I don't think we were planning on getting pregnant quite as fast as we did after we got married.

I, you know, like most young people do when they get married, I got on birth control, right?

And only like a few months before the wedding did I get on birth control.

It took a little bit, but it was a hormonal birth control, but it took a little bit to set in.

But I started to realize this is not it.

This is affecting me.

It is really changing my hormones.

It's just, it's making me a little bit crazy.

And I really just did not like the way that it affected me.

We started this conversation three-ish months into our marriage of, okay, I don't want to have to be on birth control.

What other methods can we do until we're ready to have a baby?

But in the back of my head, important to note that I had also been diagnosed with endometriosis and a very mild case of PCOS as well.

So doctors had told me when it's time, when we're having these birth control conversations, they've told me, hey, it probably will be hard for you to conceive.

It might take a little while for you to conceive because my period was very irregular.

I didn't have a set cycle.

And they just told me, you probably don't ovulate regularly either.

It's probably going to be hard to capture that.

And it might take a few months or more for you to conceive.

And I guess they were just trying to set my expectations correctly.

So that's in the back of my head.

The birth control thing is not affecting me.

That's in the back of my head.

So we're prayerfully having discussions over this.

Maybe we just get off birth control, and maybe we just say we're trying, but we're not really trying.

We're just kind of leaving our hands open type thing.

Because who knows?

What if it takes months and months?

What if it takes a year?

What if it takes more than a year for me to get pregnant?

Because what had been told?

So I didn't want to wait a year after our marriage and then try, and then it takes forever.

So I was trying to think of all these things.

And so we just decided we were going to leave it in the Lord's hands, because who are we to decide when we have kids?

Anyways, obviously, being responsible, of course.

But we were fine if we got pregnant earlier as well.

We were very excited to have kids.

So we decided to get off birth control, I think, a couple weeks before that my like period had come that month.

Had my period off birth control that month.

The next month came and my period did not come.

The next month?

The next month.

So I remember just being elated, like so elated, because I just thought it would take forever.

I don't know why it just stuck with me that it was going to take a long time.

And that's just how it was going to be for me.

And I needed to wrap my head around that.

And the Lord is like, you're going to have this baby right now.

And so that was five months into our marriage.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

And mind you, we had Cadence already, who at this time she had just turned seven, and she was so excited to have a baby.

So yeah, we were so excited when we found out.

Five months into marriage.

Well, you know, it'll just strengthen your marriage and bring you closer together.

And it did.

It did.

And I've known several couples who that is their story, and they have a beautiful family.

So, okay, so how did that pregnancy go then?

How did you feel?

Were there any like hiccups or bumps in the road, or was it pretty smooth?

Yeah, the pregnancy, I would say health-wise, was fine.

It was good.

We had no major health concerns, at least with Titus's development.

He was great.

I quickly learned I was going to be sick.

I was not going to be one of the blessed ones.

That does not get sick.

I was very, very, very sick.

But my sister was pregnant at the same time, and she actually had just found out about Dicolleges, but it wasn't covered by her insurance.

We didn't want to pay out of pocket.

So, of course, then it led to finding the trick of the Unisom and B6.

So I quickly started that, and game changer.

It didn't obviously take away all of my nausea, but definitely made a difference for me when I took that combination at night.

If I did not take it, I could feel it the next day.

So as far as my prenatal care, at this point, I wasn't quite as natural, holistic living as I am now.

I was just starting out my eye-opening to the world moment at that time.

And I had always seen the same OB, OB-2IN, that actually my mother went to when we moved here, and my parents moved here.

She started going to an OB in High Point, and so we just always went there, me and my sisters.

And so that's who I just went to for prenatal care, and it was good.

I didn't really know anything different, but there was the rotation of doctors, and I remember going to those appointments as a new mom, and I've been surrounded by kids for a long time.

So I kind of had this feeling like, oh, I know, I don't need to ask questions.

I know what I'm doing.

But then I would sit in the appointments, and I remember them not being very informative appointments, like sitting there being like, and they would say, do you have any questions?

That dreaded question of, do you have any questions?

And I'm like, what am I supposed to be asking?

I feel like you should be telling me stuff.

I feel like there's more.

I don't know, I guess I'm fine.

I remember one appointment, I did have horrible back pain, back pain and also sciatic nerve pain.

I would have these spasms.

Oh my gosh.

Sometimes they would like send me to the floor.

That was really bad.

And I remember asking like, what can I do about that?

Was there something I can do about back pain?

And I'll never forget the doctor that was in that appointment.

His advice was to have the baby.

What?

Yeah, for my back pain to go away.

He said, yeah, most I can tell you about that is just to have the baby.

I was like, you're not even going to tell me to go to the chiropractor?

Like the obvious answer that the obvious answer.

So anyways, but how far along were you?

Oh, that was pretty late.

And the brain tells big, like, I mean, not not late, but 30, 31 weeks.

Oh, yeah.

OK, so later, but not like that.

Not like the end.

No, no.

I remember being like, well, that is defeating.

Like, I'm not like three weeks away where it's just make it to the end.

Maybe maybe instead of them saying, do you have any questions?

We should all go into those appointments saying, do you have any answers?

Would you like to tell me anything?

Oh, that's funny.

OK, like new moms just like don't know what they don't know.

It's true.

You don't know what you don't know.

That was kind of the pregnancy.

All right.

So by the end, I'm sure you're really uncomfortable.

I mean, I'm short.

I'm 5'1, very small.

You are short.

And so I remember like my feeling just like everything was pushed and squeezed.

My lungs, I never can breathe during pregnancy.

And he was his, you know, he's born in August.

So I was really big, really hot as well.

And from like that 31-week mark to the end, his foot was up behind, like digging into my rib cage on the right side, just like the whole time.

I know he's head down.

But I mean, his foot is killing me.

I would like try to push it down.

Yeah, it's funny.

Okay, so we're at the end.

How does labor start and when?

Like how far along are you?

Yeah.

Okay, so the day before my due date, the night before, I start feeling things.

And I can tell they're just like little cramps here and there.

And so I'm not really thinking much of it.

I'm just like, okay, we're just going to go to bed.

It's fine.

So go to bed and sleep.

Nothing keeps me up at night.

They just kind of go away, those little feelings.

Then I wake up about 5 a.m.

Like it was early.

I was woken up with more painful, just I can tell more intense feelings.

And they don't go away.

They're never like 30 minutes apart.

They are coming every 10, 15 minutes apart.

So in my head, I'm like, okay, this is it.

We're starting.

This is great.

I do that for a little bit.

I let Adam sleep.

I go through it.

I get up, you know, whatever.

Walking around, Adam wakes up, and he doesn't go to work.

We're just like chilling.

We watch a movie.

And just hanging out, and I'm just in my head.

I'm like, I'm in labor.

This is great.

I'm happy.

I still can talk through them.

You know, they're not like super painful.

This is on my due date.

And he was born.

Well, that was a Tuesday.

So I actually had a standing appointment.

You know, they schedule you for an appointment on your due date.

And it was later in the afternoon.

So I actually went ahead and called right when they opened at like 8 and said, Hey, I've been having contractions.

They're about 10 minutes apart right now.

What do you want me to do?

They were like, Oh, just come on in.

Like maybe mid morning, give a couple hours and just come on into the office.

Oh, like before your appointment?

Right.

So they didn't make me wait till the appointment time.

And so I'm like, okay, that's great.

So I get ready.

They start to get closer together.

They're like three minutes apart at this point.

So I'm actually tracking them.

I'm like, I'm a little app.

I'm timing them because I'm kind of like, I'm very data oriented.

I don't want to seem like, oh, I'm just assuming they're three minutes apart.

Like I want to know that they're three minutes apart.

So I'm not, I don't go in and I'm like, I'm making this up, you know, even though they would never say, are you sure?

But they might, you know.

So I was like, I have this to show you.

Anyway, so I go in, they're saying about, I write like a low to medium, I would say on my threshold of where I thought pain scale or intensity scale.

And so I go in, the doctor checks me, and I am a one.

He's like, you're barely a one.

And very, service very thick, you know.

And so I was like, okay, I was expecting that.

I probably didn't even need to come in, like, but who knows?

This is two or three hours after I started labor.

So, and it's my first baby, who knows if I'm going to move quickly or not or whatever.

So he's like, just go home, eat some spicy food, take a walk, you know, whatever.

So I was like, okay.

So we leave, we go home, we get some food.

I don't want to walk around outside because it's so hot.

So we go to Target, we walk around at Target, we go back home.

And they had told me that morning, they were like, you know, if things keep going, give us a call before we close, like our actual office closes, and we'll check you again this afternoon so we can get an update on where you are rather than you going right to the hospital.

And I was just like, okay, cool.

Hopefully, I'll be like in active labor and be admitted by them.

But that's cool.

We'll do that.

So I make it and they do not they do not waiver from the three minutes to there between two to three minutes apart.

I can tell they're getting more intense.

I'm having to stop.

I can't walk through them.

I'm like, okay, these are good signs.

So we make it to about four o'clock for 15.

So I call.

I do what they told me to do and call and say, you know, they have not gone away.

They're still happening, blah, blah.

And the nurse there is like, oh, actually, you know, the doctor is over at the hospital right now.

And so let me try to get in touch with them.

So puts me on hold, wait.

And she comes back and says, actually, I told him, you know, what you told me about your updates.

And he just said, just go to the hospital.

It's like, I can already see where this is going.

The writing is on the wall.

But, you know, at the time, I just didn't know.

I didn't know.

Right.

I wasn't prepared.

I just was like, OK, they told me to go to the hospital.

I'm going to go to the hospital.

So we go and we bring all of our stuff.

We're like, this is it.

We're going to go have a baby.

This is great.

You know, I've been in what I'm calling labor.

You know, I'm having contractions, whatever, since 5 a.m.

this morning.

And they've been consistent in clothes together since 8 a.m.

this morning.

Like, this is a lot of time, I feel like.

And I am tired.

Like, I'm already worn out.

Those are a lot of hours, you know.

So we go to the hospital, get in.

I will never forget the look on the lady's face when I told her that I was there to see the OB, that was there to be checked, because that's what they told me, go to get checked.

And she looked at me, like I had three heads, and was like, well, you can't just come to the hospital to be checked.

What are you talking about?

Well, we have to admit you for you to be checked.

And she was really treating me not very nicely.

And I had to stop her.

I was like, no, no, I called the office.

They told me to come here.

Like, I'm not just walking in blindly, thinking, oh, I'm in labor, I'm just going to come.

They told me to come.

So then she's like, oh, okay.

Well, if they told, okay, all right.

And so then she changed her tune a little bit, but she still was like, well, we have to admit you.

So I had to get in full hospital gown, do the whole thing, and get in to a room on the bed.

They check me, or the doctor comes in, he checks me.

Where was I?

Still a one.

Still a one.

So I was still a one.

I was pretty devastated.

And I don't say that lightly.

Sadly, that is a reoccurring theme of this birth story, is that I went through a lot of emotions, but a lot of them were just disappointment.

And that was the start of it, because he said my cervix is a little bit thinner, so it looked like there had been a little bit of process, but not anywhere near where I thought I would be after hours and hours of contractions.

And I was tired.

I was, you know, just mentally, physically tired.

But he said, you know what, Lent, why don't you go home, try to get some rest if you can.

I'm sure that this will pick up, and we will see you back in a few hours.

Now, this part of the story is a little bit odd.

I don't want to say anything incorrectly, but that check when he checked me at the hospital, it was very painful, very painful.

And looking back now after my other stories that I'll get into, but looking back now, I can probably assume or I can wonder, have a good idea that he probably stripped my membranes a little bit.

While he was checking you, yeah.

In the moment, I did not know.

I just thought this is a painful check because I'm in labor and this feels different.

But looking back, I'm pretty sure that's what happened and why he was so confident to say, You'll be back in a few hours.

Yeah, you're gonna have this baby and be great, you know, trying to be all part of.

But I will, this is important to know, I forgot to say during the, when I was thinking about the rotation of doctors.

So at this office, I really liked mostly all of the doctors.

There was one in particular though that I remember me and Adam when we went to appointments were like, You know, he's nice and all.

But we probably would prefer somebody else be on call when we go into labor, because we are fine.

We like to just laugh at the best of things and stay positive.

Yeah, and that was just not the vibe we were getting from him.

His bedside manner was just very dry, very, I don't know, not conversational.

And we were like, you know, we'll be okay if it's him.

I'm sure it'll be fine, but we just kind of don't want him.

And he, of course, was the next doctor on call after this doctor.

Yeah.

Which this doctor that was on call, he actually delivered my youngest.

Oh, so there's some family history there.

23 years ago.

Still practicing.

And that's kind of the biggest reason we were even at the office.

So I felt good about him, and he was kind of our number one the whole time because he just was so nice and family ties and whatever.

But I knew he was leaving and probably would not see him, but that was fine.

So go home from the hospital after apparently being admitted, in quotes.

It's very simple to be admitted.

And at this point, my mom comes over offering support, and we just are working through contractions.

I have solely, exclusively, back labor.

And that is not for the faint of heart.

And they just continued, continued, continued.

They never died down.

I could not sleep.

I tried to lay down, could not.

So during that time, I was just laboring.

I did the mild circuit.

Of course, Adam was applying a lot of back pressure, or counter pressure.

And I made it until about midnight before I said, okay, I don't know if I can do this.

Did you have like a birth plan?

Like, did you have a way that you were trying to birth, going into this birth, or was it just sort of like fly by the seat of our pants, we'll see what happens?

One of those.

Sadly, yeah, I think I went into it more, way more confidently than I should have with being as unprepared as I was.

I totally, I totally think you should go into birth very confidently, but you also need to be prepared to have that confidence.

And I was not, like I was not prepared, I don't think, but I thought I was.

I think I thought, like most new moms do, just they're going to take care of me, and they're going to tell me what I need to do.

Looking back, like where I am now in my life, I hate that I even had that thought, but we go through things and we learn things.

I just, I do wish that I would have spent more time developing that birth plan, developing the do's and the don'ts, the wants, the vision for my birth.

Because I really didn't.

I just, I didn't.

I did, you know, like I said, this is the beginning of my more natural journey, so I knew I wanted to if I could go without pain medication.

I knew I wanted if I could go without intervention, but I definitely wasn't like as opposed, probably as I am now.

I was more open to the idea.

So, but around midnight, that is when I think my mind started going to, I don't know how much longer I can do this, and I'm not getting anywhere.

Like, why is it not working?

I thought it was me.

Like, what am I doing?

Am I tensing up?

Am I not breathing?

Right.

What am I not doing?

And I remember being so upset, frustrated with myself because I was like, I didn't do anything beforehand to teach myself how to go through labor.

I just thought my body would do it.

And now it is my fault.

Now I'm not progressing because of something I'm doing.

What's going on?

It was just such a mental battle.

But anyway, so that real midnight, we decided to go back to the hospital, and that was going to be it.

I was like, no matter what, we're going to go to the hospital and have this baby.

Do you think they were any more intense at home after he supposedly stripped your membranes, or do you think...

Yes.

Just checking.

Yeah, I would say they got to that medium range.

We revved up.

Yeah, revved up definitely a little bit.

But it's hard to tell too, because I was having them for so long at that point.

I was like, are they just getting more painful because my pain threshold is dying down because I've been having them for so long?

Yeah, like you're tired and...

Yeah.

But anyways...

So you're back at the hospital.

Yeah, around 12.30, and do the whole process of getting checked in and into a bed.

And yeah, the nurses' face, I will not ever forget.

So you know how some nurses and doctors, when they check you, some of them seem far away from you when they check you?

Some of them seem very close and kind of hover over you while they do it a little bit.

This nurse was a hoverer.

And that's important because I felt like she was two inches from my face.

I'm sure she was not.

While she's checking you.

Yes.

I felt like she was so close to me.

And I remember having all this pent up worry and anxiety, this impending doom because of this check.

She starts the check, and I can just see it on her face.

She looks at me two inches from my face and says, Oh, honey, you're a one.

And I immediately lose it.

I'm just in tears.

I'm like, what is going on?

What is wrong with me?

All of these thoughts are just...

I for sure was like, I can't do this anymore.

Nope, not going to do it.

This isn't working.

My body's broken.

So I just felt like giving up.

But I had my moment, came back, and I was so nervous that they were going to send me home.

I didn't know what the next step was.

But I told her it was in the middle of the night, and I was like, I'm not going home.

I don't know what to do.

This isn't going away.

It's been this long.

If it were to stop, I feel like it would...

If it were to die down and come back, if this wasn't real, I feel like it would have done that by now.

But what did I know?

Anyways, we made a decision to stay, and they allowed us to stay, even though it wasn't necessarily policy, because I was only one centimeter dilated.

But they started me on pitocin.

Or after you opted for an epidural.

Before.

Yeah, that was the first.

I'm holding my uterus right now for you.

Well, that was the first step, was the pitocin, because I was like, I do want to try to go as long as I can without it.

And I still was holding my guns on that.

And it did not take long.

I think by the second contraction that I felt after they started the pitocin, I said, I'm going to need that epidural now.

I need that now.

Yeah, I changed my mind.

So I had that moment of surrender in that way, because I was like, I can't do it.

And got the epidural in the middle of the night.

And then I slept.

I was like, thank the Lord, I can sleep.

Yeah.

So I slept till the morning.

I remember my epidural kind of wearing off in the morning.

And we got the day going.

You know, they're monitoring.

Everything seems fine.

They think I'm moving and progressing along.

So in the morning, shift comes in.

They're like, okay, is it okay if we check you?

Sure, let's see where we're at.

Because it's just such a shift when you have an epidural, because it's like, are you going to move faster?

What's going to happen?

But I had the ptoasent.

But I've been in labor for so long, so I don't know what's going to happen.

And so they check me in the morning.

And I'm a three.

At least you made progress that time.

Exactly.

Yeah, just hearing a different number other than one.

I mean, that number will always haunt me now.

But anyway, so we keep going.

We try different positions.

I'm flipping over like different positions with an up girl.

That's funny, but I like going one side.

And we try the peanut ball.

And that really helped.

But I can kind of like fast forward through the day because it took all day.

Like, it was getting checked every so often.

And the peanut ball was really like the biggest thing.

So, you know, that separation of my legs and opening up my pelvis really helped once I got going.

I remember being happy as a clam.

I remember Adam got food because he was really hungry.

He like didn't even eat.

And I was starving too.

And of course, you know, they're like, don't eat.

And I remember not even caring that I couldn't eat because I couldn't feel the contractions.

I was like, you have a great time.

I just am happy I can't feel these contractions.

So in the day, and then it was going so slowly.

So I was like, I'm bored.

And so Adam had his dad bring, because he was coming, because we thought we were having a baby.

So he came into town.

He lives like an hour and a half away.

He brought cards and we played spades around the hospital bed.

Yeah, we played cards.

And we were just waiting, you know, we were just waiting.

And it was just funny, you know, it's just so different.

It's just so different, but it was fine.

But yeah, so it lasted all day.

My sisters ended up coming, and my mom after, you know, the workday ended around five or six o'clock.

And we had decided previously that was just going to be me and Adam in the room when I actually delivered the baby.

So they had just come in to offer support, hang out for a little bit.

And during that visit, when they were in there, around the five or six o'clock mark, I started to get extremely nauseous.

I was like, something is wrong.

I am really, really nauseous.

And then I also got the shakes, really bad shakes.

And I did not like that.

I did not like not being in control of my body.

The epidural was already hard enough because I couldn't feel.

And then I started shaking uncontrollably, and I just was in turmoil.

I was like, I have to stop this.

I have to get control.

But I just couldn't.

And I remember a few nurses coming in during that time, doing some stuff, but there were a lot of people in the room.

And they had been taking my vitals.

So it didn't seem odd that they wanted to take my temperature, but they did.

And I wasn't paying attention.

I was like that throw up and shaking.

And I was facing my mom, and I remember seeing a look of like horror on her face, basically, after they took my temperature.

And it's sticking out to me like, what, I mean, I meant to know what's going on, like what.

And then next thing you know, the doctor comes in, and it was the doctor, if you remember, that we didn't want, and he came in as dry as he could be.

And told, he sat down on the bed actually, as I'm going through it, you know, and he's actually being very patient.

He was calm, which he always seemed calm, but he was calm, and informed me that I had 103 degree fever, and I had a uterine infection, and that we were going to need to deliver the baby as soon as possible.

Well, I could say about that, but I'm going to refrain.

You can't.

But your water hadn't broken yet, right?

Oh, you know what?

I forgot that point.

They broke my water after they gave me the epidural.

Okay.

So it still hadn't been broken for that long, though.

Mm-hmm.

Only like during the day.

The reason that I'm pinpointing that infection was because I had been checked, like, a thousand times at that point.

All day the day before, multiple times, and throughout the day that day.

So...

Well, also epidurals, that's a risk of epidurals, too, is maternal fever.

Okay, so what was their plan then for getting you delivered as soon as possible?

So, I also skipped a point.

I'm so sorry.

Right before they took my temperature, and everybody came in, they actually did a check, and that was like that five or six o'clock mark, and it was eight.

That was eight centimeters.

And I remember being so rejoiceful.

Like, we're almost there.

This is awesome.

So then, 30, 40 minutes go by, and that's when all the high temperature happened, and we're sure I had a uterine infection.

But also, nausea and shaking is just, those are symptoms of transition as well, as like you transitioning into pushing, not necessarily, you know, fever.

Just, yeah.

Well, which makes sense because he, when he came in, and it had only been 30, 40 minutes, and he's telling me, okay, this is an emergency now, took that as, if you are not ready to push right now, if you're not 10 centimeters dilated, we're about to go to the Oval.

Right.

And so he sat down and was checking me, and he says, the good news, you're 10 centimeters.

So to think that I was in transit, like that makes perfect sense.

Yeah.

But he is telling me, okay, we're going to need to get this baby out.

And he's just being very stern.

And in the moment, I was taking everything he was saying.

I was like, yeah, there's real danger right now.

I need to get my baby out.

I need to be serious right now.

And I need to get my baby out as fast as possible.

I need to push well.

And so I think the Lord just knows what we need in moments where we don't think we know.

Because throughout my whole pregnancy, I was like, I don't really want this guy because I don't want to take things too seriously.

And then in that moment when it switched to, oh, actually, we need to be a little bit serious right now.

We need to take this situation and handle it properly.

And he, I think, did a good job of preparing me for that in that moment when we thought that there was a need to get the baby out pretty quickly.

And it prepared me in my mental state to kind of, okay, shift gear, get him out.

Yeah.

Have you felt the urge to push yet?

No.

No.

Yeah.

I guess I felt pressure, but with the epidural, like, honestly, it was hard.

Yeah.

It was hard to know and to, like, really be in tune with anything that was going on.

And I hate that, but that's what it was.

So anyways, they got the table, as they say, this infamous table, that they always say in the hospital, like, get the table with all of their, like, stuff on it.

So they get the table and bring it over, and we're ready.

We moved down, and this is about 7, 10-ish.

And I pushed during contractions.

I think it took three total pushes, and he was out.

What?

And you hadn't felt pressure before then?

That's wild.

So I don't know, maybe I was supposed to be feeling pressure, and I just did it.

The epidurals usually don't take the pressure away.

They usually just take the pain away.

That is true.

And I may be just forgetting.

Or maybe you're just like a rock star of a pusher, too.

I don't know.

I think my mindset was like, I have to get this baby out now.

Well, I'm not going to scream.

I'm not going to waste my energy right now.

Because I thought he was baking in there, basically, is what he described to me.

He was fine, but yeah.

My temperature is 103.

I'm like, this is bad.

My whole uterus is inflamed and infected.

I need to get him out of there.

That was my mindset.

So, about three pushes, he was out.

I was, of course, on my back and on the bed, and held right away, which was great.

We did not have anything in place for that third stage.

I was already on potassium, but we didn't have anything really clean, and I didn't quite know about delayed cord clamping at that time.

So, everything was pretty normal as far as that goes.

So, then, how was your recovery and postpartum and breastfeeding and all of that journey?

I totally forgot to mention, by the way, after my first push, totally forgot this.

This is important.

After my first push, he actually did do an episiotomy.

That's a huge, important thing to say.

I know.

I know.

I totally forgot that.

Sorry.

That would also play a factor into why he came out so quickly, but why did he feel the need to do an episiotomy?

He said, and he did tell me before, I said, Did he ask you?

Okay, tell me his exact words, if you remember.

I think it was between an ask and a tell.

Like, hey, I can see that you're starting to tear.

You're going to tear in a very undesirable way.

Do you want me to control it with an episiotomy?

Oh, the manipulation that just happened in that sentence.

Yeah, I remember agreeing because I was like, Oh yeah, I mean, I don't want to tear sideways.

You know what I mean?

I just don't know.

Okay, so let's just pause and sit with that for a minute.

Okay, because it's like, I tell people sometimes the hardest part of doing this podcast is not jumping on my soapbox every time someone says something that either they don't know isn't right.

You know what I mean?

It's just hard for me to sit back and just listen sometimes, but I really do my best to just let people tell their stories.

But I also don't want people to think that's okay or that's normal or that should be expected or that's fine.

So there are things that I let slip by, and I'm like, okay, all right, that's great.

I want you to tell your story, this is great, but I cannot let that one slip by.

So what he just did there...

I'm fine with it because there are a lot of things in my first two stories that are infuriating to me when I think back about it, infuriating.

Well, this is probably one of them.

Him telling you you're going to tear in an undesirable way is first of all absolutely ridiculous because let's just talk about how the vagina, how God...

I know this sounds weird to say in a sentence, but how God designed the vagina to stretch.

It was designed to stretch, and if torn, it was designed to heal.

So it's not something that needs to be intervened.

So when he says undesirable to tear, that means undesirable for him to repair is what that was code for.

And I can tell you from a mom's perspective, tearing naturally and maybe having a few stitches after versus tearing surgically, like being cut open and then being stitched up, those are two totally different healing processes.

It takes a lot longer to recover and to heal from a surgical tear.

It's not a tear, it's a cut from a surgical cut than it does if you tear naturally.

And it's a lot more painful, and the recovery time is a lot longer.

And it leads you prone to future issues down the line for future babies when you've been cut in that way than if you were to have just torn naturally.

And it does such a disservice, the only person it helps is the obstetrician.

Because if baby is not in true distress, which it does not sound like baby was in true distress, it just sounds like you're pushing your baby out and here he comes.

But it's very normal for it to take a long time to push your first baby out, especially on your back with an epidural.

Like it's expected to take a long time.

And so I think, I truly think from what you've told me, that he did it out of convenience for himself and himself alone, which is infuriating because of the fact that it's your body, not his body.

And that was completely unnecessary.

And I tell in my class, this is one of the things I teach in my childbirth class, is that if somebody is asking you for an episiotomy, and it's not going to sound like, do you want an episiotomy?

They're never going to say it like that.

They're going to say things like what he said, or they'll say things like, if I just make a little cut right here, I can have your baby out to you in your next contraction.

If they're putting it in that way, it is not necessary, and you do not want it.

Like, it's not.

And a lot of moms have no idea.

And they're feeling so vulnerable, because all they're thinking of is wanting their baby and wanting it to be over, and wanting to move forward.

And it's, oh, it hurts.

I was in no place mentally to make that call, have that decision.

And going in, I just blindly trusted that it was only going to happen if it needed to happen.

And if it needs to happen, then they'll tell me, and it'll be fine.

Not like in the moment I'm going to make this call, because you think it's going to happen in an undesired.

Basically, it's going to be worse for you if you don't want me to do this.

That's how he presented it, and let me just tell you, if you need an episiotomy and it is a true emergency, they're not going to ask.

They are just going to do it.

Like, if they actually need to get the baby out in an emergency-style situation, there is no asking.

It is their judgment call.

But when it's not necessary, they, quote-unquote, ask, and it does not sound like an ask.

It sounds like a this-is-what-we-should-do suggestion.

Oh, okay.

All right.

We'll move on.

But I just had to say that I couldn't let that pass by and let some first-time mom out there listen, thinking that an episiotomy is perfectly normal, expected, and okay, because it's not.

And we can talk more about that maybe in a Q&A episode.

But let's...

Okay.

And also, know that going in, it could have been on my birth plan and informed to him before we even got to that point.

Right, and he never would have suggested it at that point.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

All right.

So how did that play into your recovery, Katie?

So my recovery, because of that, was really rough.

Definitely.

And I know this now because I've had other births, so I have it to compare to.

At the time, I guess I thought it was normal to not, like, to be really painful to sit up, like, all the way.

It's like, that's normal.

You're going to have pain there.

You just had a baby.

But now I know, normally, if you don't have that horrible cut down there, it actually is not that painful.

Like, you know, it might be a little sore and whatever, but that's more so internally that hurts, or you're back from the counter pressure, like, but I actually had a wound down there that was healing and had stitches, and so that was, that part was really hard.

But as far as, you know, nursing and that as part of the recovery, Ty's latched really easily, quickly, very well.

Strong latch, very blessed by that.

And also, you know, because of this infection, they wanted to keep us under observation at the hospital for longer, so we were there for I think three days.

And so we were, you know, I was recovering there a lot.

It was just an extended time.

They wanted the vital checks.

They wanted to make sure that Ty's didn't have any subsequent infection from that process.

And I had to do a full, like I did a round of IV antibiotics, so I had to have the IV longer than I really wanted to.

And then thinking about this now makes me cringe, but I had to have an antibiotic when my milk was coming in.

Like my milk came in when I was at the hospital, which I was not prepared for.

Like I didn't have breast pads.

I didn't have like my HAKA.

I didn't have things that I wanted, but we were there longer, so my milk just came in, and I was in court and everything in the hospital, having that hormonal shift as well.

And so it was a little crazy, a little wild.

I was nervous that something was wrong with Titus.

Like he did have an infection.

That was kind of like I was hyper aware of that.

I hated being in the hospital setting.

I didn't want the hospital food at all, so the only way to get food was somebody bringing it, which I have a large village and family, so they were awesome to bring stuff, but then, you know, at night and stuff like that, we had to send Adam out to get it, and then I was by myself, and that wasn't fun.

Yeah.

So it was a lot of emotions, very strong emotions during that time, and just pain that you don't want is unnecessary to have.

So...

I'm sorry.

I'm really sorry.

I mean, I know we don't know what we don't know, but I'm still sorry that that happened.

Yeah, for sure.

But I was happy it was over.

It was just a long process.

I mean, it sounded like it was, let's see, 5 to 7 to 36, like 38 hours beginning to end.

Yeah.

Which, for a first labor and birth, isn't insane.

It's a little more normal, but it's still, I mean, when you're going through it, it is just long and hard.

Long and hard.

So, after all that initial recovery, and things eventually went on to be smooth, and your mom, and figuring it out, how old was Titus when y'all decided, or if you decided, to have your second?

So, he was one and a half, I guess.

One and a half.

Thinking about that now, it seems like he was so really young, but I think at the time, he seemed so big and old, and we knew that we wanted to have more, and we didn't want the age difference.

We didn't want a humongous gap, and we felt ready.

Titus was still nursing.

He was a great nurser.

We were very blessed by that, but we decided to start trying around that one and a half time.

So then, I guess, how long did it take?

Oh, with Rowan, it actually took a little bit longer.

It didn't just take one month.

I think it took probably two or three months.

But I mean, I never got on birth control again.

After that, we just did natural family planning.

So it was pretty quick, which is great.

During that time, I definitely had done a lot more research.

I was like, okay, we're not going to have this same experience again.

And I had a friend who actually had good experiences with the midwives at the Women's Center in Greensboro.

And I knew in my mind, I was like, I do not want OB-GYN care.

I was like, I need to switch.

I didn't know what really that looked like for me personally, but it's like I just need it different than what we just went through.

And so from the advice of a friend, she really liked this one, midwife at one of the centers in Greensboro.

And so I was like, great, let's give her a try.

Did that.

I always felt really welcomed at that office, and I could tell immediately that their whole perspective on birth was so much different.

And even though they perform or they assist with births in a hospital setting, they still have a very different outlook.

And so that made me a lot more comfortable.

And I also, through my research and things like that, I really, really had honed in on wanting a water birth.

It was like, I really think that if I were to get in warm water, that it would help my body relax, rest in these contractions, and actually work.

Because again, I'm still thinking, okay, this is me, this is something I did, and maybe I can do something a little bit differently during the process if labor goes the same way to assist and try to dilate a little quicker.

So at the time, the new Women's Center at Cone had just opened, and I remember taking a virtual tour of the facility, like online, and seeing the new water tubs, like the birthing tubs that they had there.

And I was like, gosh, they're beautiful, and the rooms were really beautiful and new.

And so I just kind of felt led.

I was like, I think this would be the right path for us.

I didn't really consider home birth.

Adam was really not comfortable with home birth.

And honestly, I did not even think, I don't know why I didn't even think that a birth center would be the correct path for me.

I don't know why I didn't really consider it a whole lot.

And the one, the local one had recently shut down.

This was, I don't know how recent it was, but I remember.

It was 2020?

Mm-hmm.

Well, then yeah, we were, we got pregnant in the fall of 2020.

So I was like, okay, crap, that's not an option anymore.

And I didn't think to go outside of that option.

And so I just kind of rested in that decision to do it a little bit differently.

To do a lot of hospital, but a different hospital and under midwife care.

So that was the path we chose.

So then with that, did you feel like your care throughout the pregnancy was like different than with an OB, like your appointments and prenatals and stuff like that?

Definitely.

You know, I think to a degree you always get that dreaded, do you have any questions?

But there definitely was a difference of just, it's just more intention with appointments.

You know, she would sit with me and ask me about my family and my other kids and how I was feeling emotionally, which that never happened.

You know, and it was way more, I felt geared towards preparing me in an emotional and physical way than just worrying about checking boxes.

And I really, I really appreciated that.

And I felt way more comfortable to explain worries that I had about birth and from past experiences and got a lot of reassurance that that's not how a midwife is going to approach her care.

And, you know, here are some things we could do differently.

And it just, there was a lot more comfort.

So I definitely saw a big difference in that.

So then this time, going into birth, you had a plan and you wanted a water birth, and that was the goal.

So how far along were you when you went into labor this time?

It was the day before my due date.

Due date again?

Yeah.

Well, I didn't quite go into labor, but that's when I started to feel things happen.

And I was like, oh my gosh, that's so funny.

It's almost the exact same timing as the night before my due date.

I started feeling it again, little things here and there, except for this time, they didn't go away.

These lasted throughout the night.

I was able to sleep.

They started out further apart.

So we were about 20 to 30 minutes apart.

I would say mild, mild contractions or Braxton Hex, even, like, you know, just getting started.

And so I was able to sleep between them, but still gearing up mentally.

I was like, this is it.

This has got to be it.

And I had done, I would say, a little bit more preparation before this one, looking back, not nearly as much as I should have, but I tried my best.

What did you do differently to prepare?

Okay, so my friend that actually, the same friend that recommended this midwife, she was training to be a doula at the time.

You probably know who I'm talking about.

And so she offered the services for me to kind of get her training or license or whatever.

And that process, you have to have a certain amount of hours.

So she was like, let me, I want to walk you through the process.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I'd love that.

So we had a couple of meetings, and she walked me through like a birth plan template.

And a lot of stuff I had thought about already, but it was so good because there were some things that I thought I had thought about, and I hadn't.

When it really came to putting them on paper, I needed to do that.

I needed to think through it.

I wanted to talk to Adam and be like, okay, we're together on this.

I want you to be informed too on what my preferences are and make it like this isn't us thing, not just a me thing.

And so I actually had a birth plan on paper.

She walked me through a postpartum plan too, which was awesome and what that's going to look like.

And yeah, I was just really thankful for that.

So going in, I approached her a lot differently.

I definitely knew I wanted to do the water birth.

My midwife was aware of that on the front end.

I definitely obviously didn't want any pain medicine or anything like that.

I did not want to be induced, if we could avoid it.

They still had the policy of going past a week, I think it is, that on your week, 41 week mark, you would, is that what it is?

I think it's 41.

For most of these offices, but you can also, I mean, you can definitely go to 42.

You just have to make that known.

Yeah, well, thankfully we didn't get there.

We did not get there, but I didn't want any kind of other like interventions or induction or anything.

You're having contractions all night long.

Birth story, but contractions all night long.

Wake up in the morning, probably 6 a.m.

or so, and I feel them getting closer.

I mean, they were progressively getting closer throughout the night, so we've been about 10 minutes apart for a few hours at that point, and let everybody know I wasn't going to work, and just kind of moved throughout our day.

It was a Friday, and we wake up.

I have a birthing ball at home, and my mindset is this is going to be the biggest marathon of your life.

Because of the trauma that I had from going to the hospital and being in the office and being checked so many times with my previous birth, I was like, I'm not going until the very end.

I'm like, I might have this baby at home because I'm going to wait so long.

Because I knew that that would just kick the wind out of me if I went again, and I was not.

So that had been my preparation beforehand.

So we just kind of labored out the day.

My friend comes over, and she's so great, getting me water, getting me stuff.

My mom comes over, and we took Titus to daycare.

He was a daycare at the time.

And we're just having, you know, morning birth and good stuff.

I don't think I called anybody.

I don't think I warned anybody until much later.

We get about midway through the day.

And at this point, they've been two to three minutes apart.

They're picking up.

So I feel like they're about medium.

But again, it's like so funny, because when you start going into labor, you're like, are these painful?

I don't know.

I can't remember how painful they get, you know?

Do you know that, where you forget what level, like how to gauge them?

Is this intense or not?

I don't remember.

You know, because when they start, they feel intense.

So I was trying to go through that gauge pretty much all day, but they were very consistent.

I remember doing the mile circuit and just doing them as many things as I could, but also being cautious because I really didn't want to wear myself out a lot.

But at that point, I had eaten some food.

I had gone on a walk and curb walked, but I remember during that walk in the afternoon, I was not able to walk through them.

I was having to stop, breathe.

I was having to counter pressure.

100% back labor, horrible back labor still.

And I get back and I remember kind of feeling, okay, I remember praying like, Lord, I feel like I'm going to give up.

I feel like I'm going to draw the Y flag again, and I really do not want to.

I really want to make it.

And the Lord reminded me, he was like, Kate, you have not put your worship music on.

I had prepared this beautiful soundtrack because worship is such a big part of my life, and I had spent months preparing this soundtrack to play or whatever, to play during labor, and I hadn't put it on yet.

So when I got back from the walk, we put that on, and I was on the birthing ball, and Adam rubbed Clary Sage on my feet with some oil.

And, oh gosh, I just loved that moment.

I just closed my eyes, and I just sang, and I remember even my friend saying, okay, we got to remember this for next time.

Why don't we wait this long to put this music on and to rub her feet?

We should have been doing this all the time.

Because I was just at mind shift.

Anyways, we went about three hours more after that point in the labor process.

And during those three hours, I really felt like they were getting more intense.

I could notice an increase of, okay, that's a big one.

That's the painful one.

And so at that point, I remember it was like five o'clock.

And I said, okay, I want to go to the hospital.

I want to go now.

And I called the midwife a little bit before that and just told her, you know, and actually, my midwife was on call at the hospital.

That was great.

Like the one that I had actually been to, which there's a bunch of them, you know, so I had already accepted the fact that I might, there was probably a higher percentage that I was not going to get the one that I had been seeing.

So anywho, but I was so encouraged.

She was there.

And so we made our way.

And I'm thinking, this is it.

This is it.

I'm going to have a baby, bringing stuff.

And I remember also having a decision fatigue because I wanted to wait as long as I could, but now it's your second baby, and you're like, maybe things are not going to go like they did before.

And I have all the on writing, the signs, the two to three minutes apart, the gaining in intensity.

Like, I have all of those things.

I had also lost my mucus plug a couple of days before that, like, a lot.

And so I just had all these stuff.

I was like, this feels different.

This feels right.

Like, it feels good.

Yeah.

And I was like, I don't want to have...

I'm not prepared to have a baby at home, so I don't want to wait too long, because what if this is really different, you know?

So anyways, we felt peace about going to the hospital, but the checking in process there was not the best.

While I was in such a...

While you were in active labor.

While I was in labor, yeah, yeah.

And this was also during COVID.

So all of the COVID precautions and different policies were in place.

So they had to ask me a lot of questions that I did not want to answer.

That was horrible.

And when it was time, they put me in a waiting room after I got checked in, a waiting room to go to the maternity assessment unit, not even to go to the curfew.

And I get called out of the waiting room, and they tell Adam that he has to stay in the waiting room.

And mind you, I'm pretty borderline not OK if he's not doing counterpressure.

And so I kind of argue with that a little bit, and they're like, I'm sorry, this is what you have to do.

And at that point, I'm just like, oh my gosh, OK, screw it.

Let's get this done so that I can get back to my husband.

Please, I'm going to hurt everybody.

So they put me in this assessment room with basically a computer, a desk, and a table.

This is not a birthing room.

This is not a birthing room.

And they get me all checked in, gowned up.

They have to do a dreaded COVID test and touch my brain with that stick.

And I was so mad the whole time.

And I eventually had to add, like after they got me hooked up to monitors and all this stuff, I was just like, I had to ask, I said, can my husband come in here, please?

Like, what is going on?

And they're like, oh, yeah, your husband's in the waiting room.

Let me go get him.

And then I was like, did you forget?

Like, did you think I was here by myself?

What is happening?

So they finally let him back in.

And I was like, oh, thank the Lord, because it was not good.

And my midwife came in, she said hey.

And then so finally, they were like, okay, it's time to check you, see where you are, you know?

This is the next step in the process.

And they checked me, and I'm a two.

Oh, a one with your first baby, a two with your second baby.

I thought that to myself, at least you didn't say one.

So it was horrible, I felt.

So again, just really, really defeated.

Emotionally, physically just tired.

I was like, I can't do this.

It's horrible.

Why is my body doing this?

But at the same time, I was like, okay, if I could just get into the water, please, can I get into the water?

How can we do that?

But of course, with hospital policy, I can't be admitted.

Right, because you're still a two.

I can't go up to the floor to get in the tub.

I can't start my labor process.

It's just all of these hoops you have to jump through.

To combat that was really hard.

And my med-life was definitely on my side for sure, but I was having a lot of anxiety, and I could feel my heart rate rising, and it was not pleasant.

But trying to get the secrets of events correctly, because my med-wife knew, because of our extensive conversations on my first birth, that what I wanted and why I wanted it, and she was going to help me and do everything she could to get me to what I wanted.

So we had lots of conversations.

She was very cool, calm, and collected, talking to me about my options.

And all I knew is that when one of the nurses came in, she didn't mean anything by it, but when she kept telling me that I was in early labor, I just wanted to, like, oh, the anger in me.

I was like, this doesn't feel like early labor.

It doesn't feel like early labor.

And it's been, at this point, a long, long time since last night that I've been having contractions.

You know, or that doesn't seem like early labor to me.

I'm not no expert, but please stop telling you that I'm in early labor.

She said it like 20 times, like, trying to be nice, like, oh, honey, you're good.

Like, you just need to go home.

And that was the trigger of, like, she said, I need to go home.

And in my head, I'm not going home.

That's not happening.

I'm at this hospital.

I'm having my baby.

And so shortly after that, they took my vitals one more time, and my blood pressure was high, very high for me, at least.

I was, like, in the 140s over, I don't know what it was over, but in the 140s.

And so my midwife came in with an idea, and she wanted to renovate me.

She said, listen, like, I can't, we can't admit you, but we just took your blood pressure, and I'm sure you saw, but it was high.

And if we are saying we're evaluating you for gestational hypertension, then we can admit you.

Then we can admit you.

There you go.

And you're probably, you know, your blood pressure is high because of all the anxiety that you're having.

Exactly, exactly, yes.

But here's the kicker.

And she said, she told me this in the moment, she said, but I don't know if that's what you want because they have all of these rules and regulations again about when you can and cannot get in the pool.

Right, if your blood pressure is high, you can't get in the tub.

Can't get in the tub.

And she said, at this point, it's already been high once.

If we check it again and it's high, then it's a no go for the tub anyways.

So this is something I can put on paper to get you admitted, to start the process, if that's where you are.

But it does mean no water birth.

And Kayla, I mean, I just was in such a bad headspace anyways, that I was like, it's not going how I wanted it to go already.

I'm not going to get what I want.

Fine.

I just don't want to go home.

I just can't go home.

And looking back, I definitely wish I would have made a different decision.

I wish I would have gotten in my own dang tub at home.

Right.

I was going to ask if you had done any water stuff at home.

I hadn't.

I kick myself when I think about that, because it's so frustrating.

But you live and you learn.

But looking back, I'm like, why didn't I just make that decision to get in that tub at home and labor there?

Because I just didn't know.

I was like, but what if I move quicker, and what if I'm further along?

Then I'll just go there, and I want to be settled.

I don't want to have to think, oh, I'm in the bath here, and then I'm going to have to get out.

And when it feels intense, and you travel to the hospital, it is what it is, which I hope this is encouraging somebody to do a home birth.

Because looking back, I'm just like, if I was just planning on being at home and in my own space to begin with, I wouldn't have had to do all of these things and hear the word policy or regulation or anything.

I don't want to hear any of that.

I just want to have my baby and do the best thing that's going to support my body to have my baby.

But I didn't feel like I could do that.

So anyways, we get through that conversation, and I just say, you know, let's do it.

I have to be officially diagnosed with that, to be admitted.

I have to stay in that assessment room for four hours.

That's the rule.

You have to have high blood pressure consecutively for four hours.

You had to stay in that little tiny room for four hours?

That was the plan.

That was the plan that I knew I was going to have to do.

So she came in about the time.

This was like seven or so o'clock, a little bit after.

She told me the big news at this point.

There's some big news that I did not know.

I don't know if it was this particular Friday night or if it's something in the hospital.

I haven't looked, but there was no midwife on call Friday night.

So it was just going to be like a resident OB?

Mm-hmm.

So this is the news that she gives me.

So at that point, did you want to go home?

Yeah, exactly.

Adam, could you look some YouTube videos?

We're going to go home and have a free meal.

But anyway, so that was the big news.

I was just like, are you kidding me?

Who was ever going to tell me that?

What is going on?

How can I have midwife care my whole entire pregnancy?

And then you drop this bomb on me, and of course I go into labor, and I'm going to have my baby on a Friday night.

Of course that would happen to me.

How could this go any more wrong than I thought it was going to go?

Oh, it's so frustrating.

Anyways, she tells me that around that point.

And also part of my birth plan was very much, I was like, I do not want to be checked.

Do not check me.

Other than that, check to get into the hospital?

Right, exactly.

I wanted to go as long as possible without being checked, largely because of the infection or whatever with Titus' birth.

So they didn't want to check me, but she also said, you know, if you want me to do one more thing, to get things moving, to ensure that we're having progression, if you want me to, I could strip your membranes.

And we talked about that, because I think she checked me at the same.

Like she said, I'm going to check you, and if you want me to, I can.

You know, it was kind of like a depending on where you're at type thing.

And it had been a couple hours.

And so she checked me, and I was a three, I think.

And I was really nervous that I was going to stop or I was in a stall or it wasn't going to move forward because I still was in the mindset, I'm going to do this thing naturally.

And so I did say, I did agree, agree to have her do that.

And that was so painful.

So painful.

I remember just like crawling up the table trying to like get away.

Get away.

Yeah, and she told me, she said, this is going to hurt really badly, and it's going to make your contractions way more intense.

And I thought they were already intense, you know?

And so I agreed, I said, let's do it.

We got to get this thing moving, let's do it.

So she does that.

I have a few more pretty intense contractions.

We go throughout that process.

And something about that made my contractions a lot, I think, just felt different.

They felt like they were in the front and the back.

They felt just different.

And to the point where I was verbalizing a lot.

And when she tagged me, I was three, I think.

Did I say that?

You said three.

Yeah.

And then I'm thinking, okay, this is just, hopefully they're doing something now, hopefully they're moving, we're going to get going, we're going to get progress here.

So she leaves, we say goodbye.

I'm like, I don't know who's going to take care of me the rest of the night, but we'll see you later, I guess.

And then at the end of the four hour mark, so it had been two hours or so since that, at the end of that four hour mark, they come to check my blood pressure again.

It's still high.

And I guess that's a good thing because they're going to admit me.

And then something happened, I can't remember exactly why, but maybe it was because of how vocal I was being or how much pain I seemed to be in.

Or maybe they just want to check me one last time before they admitted me.

I don't really know, but for some reason they checked me during that time as well.

And she was checking me and I had a contraction basically.

And I was in pain, I was moving a little bit, but this nurse, I remember, said, Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, we got to get you upstairs.

And starts like this very urgent, like, memento.

And I was like, okay, all right, we got to get me upstairs.

She's like, you're a six, you're a six, we got to get you upstairs.

I don't know, there was just this urgent thing.

And to this day, I don't know why, because even if I was six, that's not...

That's not urgent.

It's not urgent.

And maybe it was because I went from a three to a six so fast, so they're thinking, okay, this is moving, and we need to go.

I really honestly don't know.

But that's going to mess with your blood pressure and anxiety and everything.

Exactly.

So they will me up.

One of the nurses when I get in the room is like, get the table, call the doctor.

I'm like, what is going on?

I'm not having this baby right now.

Is there something they're not telling me?

And anyway, so we're waiting for the doctor.

I kind of get cooled down.

This nurse, I remember she was just so, so sweet and calm, and she was the nurse for emergency, like intake on the floor.

I can't remember what they're called.

But anyway, so she was the one to come and help us get settled in the room.

And because I thought it was like we were rushed.

And so then she checks me.

Again.

This is what I'm saying.

I don't know why I'm being checked so many times.

Yeah, I honestly don't.

But I'm not in the mindset at that point to be like, no.

So she checks me again.

She goes, okay.

She whispers at this point.

She says, okay, I don't know what has gone on right now.

But I'm going to slow us down because I think that whoever checked you was mistaken.

You are just a little bit over three right now.

Thank you.

What the heck do you mean a little over three right now?

That's not possible.

She just checked me, and I was a six.

And I told her, I said, she was checking me during a contraction.

Yeah, when it was putting more pressure on it.

Yeah, and so that definitely could have been why it seemed like that.

But I was like, what does this mean for right now?

Do I have to go back downstairs?

And she was like, no, no, we're gonna let it be, and we're gonna have this baby.

Because I looked at her and I said, because I don't know how much longer I can go without an epidural.

And that was my mindset at that point.

Sadly, I was just kind of...

I was like, if I'm at a three right now, I, mm-mm, mm-mm.

Sorry, I tried, like I tried my best, but I didn't feel like I was helping, like aiding my body along in the best way that I could.

So anywho, a little bit after that, she called for the epidural.

I remember the OB came in at the time, introduced himself to me.

He was very, very nice, very pleasant.

Just said, you know, happy laboring.

We'll see you in a little bit, which was good.

And I got the epidural.

So silly at the time.

They made Adam leave the room while the person to get the epidural came in.

I think to limit the amount of people in the room at one time.

And so the sweet nurse that was in there, when we first got up there, she came in, and I held her while they did the epidural.

And she was great.

But I was like, this should be my husband.

Like this makes no sense.

This makes no sense.

Like have her step out and him step in.

Exactly.

But we got that laid down.

And it is, you know, getting late.

It's like 11 or 12 at night.

And I'm having bloody show.

I'm having signs that I'm progressing.

We let it be.

But about an hour after the epidural, I can hear the nurse on the phone with the doctor.

And she puts the phone down and comes over and he goes, okay, so the doctors have asked me to ask you if we can start pitocin now.

Why?

And I said, and I had already told this nurse, like this is my birth plan, I'm not, I don't want this.

And I guess they thought, because I had already conceded to the epidural, that I was going to do that.

And there was literally no reason.

I was having buddy show, there was no reason other than to-

I can tell you the reason to hurry it up.

And it's nighttime.

I've noticed this theme with so many people who've told me their stories, that it's like, well, it's nighttime, let's just go ahead and-

they put everyone on pit at night.

And I'm like, what?

That's-

again, I have a lot I could say about that.

I'm not going to, I'm just going to keep talking.

But so did you say no?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I was like-

because this time I knew what I wanted, what I didn't want.

And I had that epidural.

So I was like, now I can think.

I can think for myself and I can speak, and I can tell you, heck no.

So, anywho, she told the doctor no.

And we're just progressing.

They have those monitors on me.

We're progressing.

About an hour later, the doctor calls again from here on the phone.

I don't know about this phone situation.

I don't know.

But I hear-

and I actually hear her say to the doctor on the other line, I do not think that she's going to want to do that.

This is not a part of her birth plan.

And I just was like, Yay nurse!

Oh my gosh, like you spoke up for me.

Like that was awesome.

Like thank you so much.

And she said, but I will ask her.

And she came over and I'll never-

she gave me her opinion.

You know, she said, hey, your contractions, I'm tracking them.

They're not slowing down.

You're showing great.

You know, you have bloody show, you do this, that.

I don't really see a need.

If you do not want it, you can decline it, you know.

And as if I don't already know that.

So I'm like, yeah, nope, not doing it.

Thank you, though.

Pitocin again?

That's what they're-

Like he just-

it was like an hour later, so he's trying again.

Yep.

Trying again.

So anywho, she told him, no, it was fine.

And it's, I guess at this point, around three o'clock in the morning, they're coming in and doing their checks, and Rowan's heartbeat starts to really decline during contractions, like, you know, in which they're like, okay, it could be her positioning or whatever.

And I totally forgot this point also, about 30 or so, 30 or 40 minutes before that, before her heart rate started dropping, I started to feel contractions again in my back.

And I was like, hmm.

She's getting lower.

Yeah, it's kind of funny because I'm like, well, once you start feeling contractions again, you start feeling it after you haven't felt it for a little while.

You're just like, I don't want to feel it.

I don't want to feel it.

So they gave me a little bit more dosage in my epidural.

And so that thing had just kicked in when her heart rate started dropping.

So I was like, okay, don't love that.

Are we close because that sucks because I just got more epidural because I thought it would be a really long time still.

So yeah, but it's okay.

And she hadn't checked me this whole time since I got up there.

And they did, after all, they hadn't checked me, which was great.

I told them, you know, no more checks.

And so when a heart rate started, they tried different positions.

They tried fluid.

They tried a couple of things.

And her heart rate still was just really lowering during those contractions.

And yeah, and so she said, you know, it was great.

She came to me and said, I know you don't want to be checked very much, but would you be OK with, you know, with what's going on to be, be checked just to see, assess where you are.

And I was like, yes, of course, that's fine.

Let's do that.

I want her to be safe, you know.

And she, I kind of scooted to the end of the bed.

She got her glove on.

And when she got to the end of the bed, saw my legs prop up, I kind of separated them a little bit.

And she says, oh, okay.

So I see your baby's head.

That's why her heart is de-sailing during contractions.

I see your baby's head.

And I'm like, what?

Oh, my goodness.

Like, I just got this more epidural and I thought it was going to be forever.

And now I could have actually birthed her and felt more.

Your nurse remained calm, which is great.

Yeah, yeah.

Good.

No freaking out.

That's great.

So we're going to have a baby.

That's great.

And it surprisingly moved a lot quicker than I thought it would, which is awesome.

I didn't need the pitot spin.

I didn't need any of that.

Like, that's my body just needed to relax.

And the epidural helped me do that.

So I was like, okay, whatever.

So, of course, she starts to call for the table, you know, the table.

She calls the doctor and the physician in at this point, since there's no midwife on call.

And it is 330-ish in the morning, and they come in and it's pretty cut and dry from there.

I began pushing.

One push, her head came out.

The other push, her body came out.

And she was there.

And they were great.

She did have a little meconium inhalation, just a little bit, like getting coughed up, and they had to suction her out a little bit.

But other than that, it was great.

No apesia.

No apesia on me, thankfully.

And I made that very clear in my birth plan ahead of time.

I did tear a tiny bit up, with of course the apesia on me is down, like backwards, you know.

I did tear a tiny bit up, and to the point where he recommended a couple of stitches.

Probably didn't need them, but I just agreed, I didn't really know.

And they did, of course, do the delayed cord clamping, everything like that.

I nursed her right away, and thankfully she latched right away too.

But other than that, I mean, world-different as far as healing goes.

I did have really bad back pain just from all the back labor.

For a long time, my back was very, very sore.

But other than that, it was okay.

Wasn't perfect, no epidural, natural, everything.

But at the end of the day, she came and she was there.

But it was a better experience than the first time.

Very, yeah, very different, but better than that.

So we're stair-stepping now.

We're like, first baby was this experience, second baby was a little bit better experience.

So then enter third baby.

Yeah, third baby.

So I had some conversations with the Lord.

I was like, what is going on?

Is it something I'm doing?

Is my pain threshold just way lower than I think it is?

And actually, I've had a lot of conversations with my mom.

My mom birthed six kids, you know, naturally.

And she has very, very similar birth experiences with just not dilating, not progressing.

And she kind of told me, well, I had never even heard of padromal labor.

I had never even heard of it.

I didn't know what it was.

Until I just started after my second birth, I was like trying to figure out what's going on.

And so my eyes started to be open.

I'm like, maybe I was just in padromal labor.

Maybe that's what was going on.

And maybe if I just waited it out, or maybe if I got in the tub at home, they would have stopped.

Like my contractions would have stopped me.

Like, it didn't feel like that.

It didn't seem like that because they were so close together.

But maybe that's the case.

So I knew I just had to approach our third baby so much differently.

And so I started the hunt of like, okay, what are we going to do?

Because I'm not stepping foot in a hospital again.

Unless it's an emergency situation.

And obviously, there's a time and place for that.

But if I can help it, I do not want for that to be my experience.

So of course, we think about the birth center route.

We start preparing a little bit more for a natural birth.

And the biggest difference that I have had in conversation, one of my sisters was pregnant at the same time as I was with Rowan, and she gave birth four weeks after I did.

Oh, no, less than that.

But she gave birth right after I did, and she had a home birth.

And she had a very quick birth, actually, and she had the baby before her midwife even got there.

And so she had just been encouraging me, like, with everything.

Your body is capable, you're able, you can do this naturally.

We just got to figure out how we're going to get you there, you know?

And so it was a big deal to me.

I invited her into our birth space, I was like, please, I want you to be there.

I want you to, like, help me along, encourage me, pray for me during the process.

I wanted my mom to be there.

I just knew, like the Lord was telling me, you've got to approach this differently.

This is a battle, and you need people there interceding on your behalf, you know?

So those were some things I did differently.

The pregnancy itself was great.

I was very, very sick.

I took my unisodium B6 every single day up into birth, because the third trimester came along, and I was like, I probably do not need to be taking this anymore.

Like, I'm not going to take it.

Let's just see what happens.

I threw up the next day.

Like, not just the next day.

Threw up.

So that was crazy, because I was like, gosh, this is not going to end.

Oh, yeah, some people take it the whole time.

Yeah, so I did the whole time, which was great, because I did notice a difference when I took it.

And a little bit different.

I did have more, probably increased, like, medical attention during pregnancy than I wanted because his kidneys were dilated.

They had some fluid in them.

Which is, you know, they assured me it was a very common thing.

Common with boys, yeah.

Yes, very common, but they still had something to watch for, you know, something to check.

And I felt okay about that, so we, you know, had a few more appointments than we normally would have.

And every time we did an ultrasound, they told me, your baby is so big.

Oh, gravy.

Yeah, and I was like, I don't think he's big, you know.

Titus was 7 pounds, 2 ounces.

Rowan was 6 pounds, 15 ounces.

I was like, those aren't big.

How big is this baby?

Yeah, I was like, I don't think.

But he was measuring ahead every time, and I was like, maybe, I don't know what's going on.

So that was kind of in the back of my head, like, oh, great.

I'm going to have the biggest baby that I've ever had, and I've got my mind set.

I am not...

I'm not having a epidural.

It's not even going to be an option.

So that was a joke because I was like, of course, on the biggest baby I'm going to have.

Hey, that's how I did it, girl.

But his kidneys were fine.

They grew and developed and they were fine.

So no real issues with that or anything.

And I will say this pregnancy at the end of the pregnancy, both of my previous ones, I really remember feeling just this horribly exhausted, pain, uncouple feeling at the end of my pregnancies.

And this one, you would think I felt that way.

He was due in July.

And you would think I felt the same way.

It was hot, uncomfortable, whatever.

But the main difference was I, every step of the way, during this birth in particular, I knew I could not do it in my own strength.

I just couldn't.

I had been relying on myself and what I felt like I knew and my confidence the whole time.

And I was uncomfortable.

I was in pain.

I had a few traumatic birthing experiences, like things happen.

And where was God?

I thought I prepared.

I thought I had invited him in.

But when I really sat down with it, I realized, okay, I didn't as much as I should have.

I didn't as much as I should have.

So at the end of this pregnancy, I felt so much better than I had before.

And I was very big.

I get really puffy and fluid filled at the end of my pregnancy.

So I looked uncomfortable.

I looked big.

But honestly, I was joyful.

I was actually so excited and looking forward to birth because I had felt really good about the birth center.

We decided to do that route.

I felt such a difference of everything there.

I mean, even when it came down to the GBS test, when I was at the birth center and they let me do it yourself when you go into the bathroom and you swab yourself, I was like, wow, what an eye-opener that they're not going to sit you on the table and do that without...

If it's not necessary for somebody else to do that, then why do they do it?

And it just was such a shift.

So even down to those little things, it was awesome.

So I was excited.

I was looking forward to it.

I had done a lot more preparation mentally.

I had read a lot of books.

I texted you and asked for recommendations on podcasts that I could listen to for more natural birth, that Adam could listen to.

That was a really big thing as well that I'd like to mention is that so much more preparation went into this with me and Adam as a team.

Before, I just felt like he was my support person, yes, but we hadn't game planned.

And this time, we actually sat down, had multiple conversations about what we wanted it to look like, what the vision was for the birth, what I wanted him to be doing during the process, you know.

I didn't want him to be on the sideline.

I wanted it to be a connection of us as well and him to help in any way that he could.

And I wanted to have my sister and my mom there to do all of the other stuff if we needed it.

And I wanted them to kind of do the anticipating of needs in that space.

And they did a great job of that, but I wanted them to be those people so that Adam and me could be doing it together.

And I knew I would need him.

I knew probably I was going to have that back labor again.

So totally, totally different mindset with this one.

That's good.

Your mindset and where your mind is, your mental state, I would say, is the number one thing.

Okay, so did you go into labor the day before your due date again?

Oh my gosh.

I was expecting it.

My due date came around, and I was like, okay, God, I'm ready, I'm excited, but whatever you have, I'm good.

And my due date was on a Sunday, actually.

So I got up, no feelings, no anything, nothing came.

Church came, I went to church, nothing came.

After church, I was like, okay, how can we get this going?

So things happened.

We took a nap.

After that, it was really beautiful outside, really warm, but I did some curb walking.

And I had this horrible fear that I was going to go into labor and be tired because I was like, I have hours and hours and hours of proof that it's going to be a long time, so I really do not want to be tired.

But again, I had this marathon mindset of like, okay, if I go into labor, I'm prepared this time, I am not going to lose.

I just might as well say I'm going to be in labor for three days.

That's fine.

I just have to keep going.

So I just did some curb walking.

I'm like, hey, all right, not too tired.

I come inside.

I remember we got some takeout for dinner.

We're sitting on a couch eating takeout.

And you know that feeling almost like when you first start your period.

And something, you know, comes out.

And at the time, like, maybe it was my newest book, but I don't know.

It seemed a little more liquidy.

And in my head, I'm like, did I just pee myself?

No, I don't think I did.

What was that?

That was a weird feeling.

To the point where I wanted to kind of know how much it was, like how much fluid it was, so I stood up and I checked the couch to see if it was wet.

And it wasn't, but I was like, okay, let me go to the bathroom.

So I went to the bathroom, and when I sat down, a little bit more trickled out.

And I told him, I said, okay, that's weird.

Something's happening.

Because it wasn't continuous or anything, just a little dribble.

So I went upstairs and I was like, I got to change my underwear and my pants now.

And when I'm upstairs, no pants on, more came out, like a considerable amount.

It wasn't by any means a gush of liquid or anything.

But I yelled at Adam.

I said, okay, something's happening.

And he came up and I said, you think this is it, right?

And he got me a towel and he put it underneath me.

And he said, Katie, I know you can't see it, but it looks like I just poured a whole water bottle down your legs.

So I said, yeah, I would think that this is it.

This is your water.

Still kind of in denial because nowhere in my head did I think that my water was going to break.

Yeah, to start it.

Yeah, nowhere.

I was like, okay, I did not prepare for that.

So now I'm kind of on these terms, right?

So in my head, I'm thinking, okay, this is great.

I'm probably going to go any minute, any second, like any hour, I'm going to start feeling things, and it's going to go and whatever.

So I remember I put a pad on and called the midwife, told them at the birth center, and they just said, keep them updated when things might happen, whatever.

But they did, of course, remind me.

Their kind of rule policy is they want you to be in active labor by 48 hours after your water breaks.

It's 48, not 72 anymore.

It used to be 72.

Right.

Pre-COVID.

Yeah, yeah.

So now I'm okay.

I don't like that.

You don't like that there's a clock that just started.

I don't like the clock.

Right.

So that was horrible.

But it's okay.

I'm like, trust me.

I'm like, we're good.

We're just gonna go.

It's gonna be fine.

So I go to sleep and nothing happens.

Wake up the next day, nothing happens.

And of course, they say the things they'll look for, and fluid is still clear.

I can feel the baby moving.

But they say the next morning, they're like, do you want to come and just do a non-stress test and just make sure everything's good?

We can check positioning.

And in my head, I'm thinking, I don't really want to drive all the way out there, but at the same time, some reassurance, some communication would help me, I think, at this point.

So that felt good.

We went, everything looked fine.

Baby was in great position.

And it did.

It felt good just to talk to them about it and not feel like they were just going to send me to the hospital at 48 hours, you know?

Not that I think they would, but...

Then we were in communication.

We're like, okay, so what's the next step if nothing does happen on its own?

And they mentioned the midwife's cocktail.

At the 48-hour mark, you mean?

Well, they just mentioned...

Well, no, I had to be in active labor by 48 hours.

Oh, so it would be before then?

Mm-hmm.

And this is at this point, the next day.

My water broke at 7 o'clock, so that was Sunday is when it started.

So that was my time frame.

This was Monday, midday.

And so they're like, while you're here, we have all the ingredients.

You just want to get it while you're here.

And I was like, sure, just so we're prepared, because it's a long way away, and I don't want to have to go around town getting all the ingredients.

So I got that there and just had two doses, like enough for two of them if I needed to.

Oh, like just to take it with you?

Mm-hmm, just to take it with me.

But I was like, we're not going to need this.

It'll be fine.

So the rest of the day, I go on a walk.

I do what I had done probably two weeks leading up to my due date.

I had taken a walk every evening at dusk and listened to my playlist and envisioned my birth, prayed, worshiped.

It was amazing.

So I did that, my nightly thing.

Nothing happened and woke up the next morning.

And that was like the 36-hour mark, just about.

And still, no contractions, no feelings, no anything.

Fluid is still coming.

My water is still slowly breaking, but nothing's happening.

So I called the medwife in the morning and we had a conversation, you know, do you want to start to do the cocktail?

And, you know, because if we don't get it started and in you, then we're not going to make it to our point and being at an active labor by 7 tonight at that point.

And so I was like, OK, let's do it.

And, you know, it was a good sign that my water had already broken, I guess.

So something was happening.

And they were so sure they were like, something is going to like when you take this, when you drink this, it's probably going to be fast.

Since your water is already broken, it's going to be fast.

So don't wait.

Don't wait when you start feeling things after you take it.

And I, you know, I'm like, no, that's been my whole game plan.

I'm waiting as long as I can.

Don't tell me not to wait.

I'm going.

Yes.

You tell me that, but I'm going to be at home.

So anyways, I took it that morning.

They had warned me, do, like, just try to keep it down at least for 20 minutes or so, you know?

And I check it back.

I'm not worried about throwing it up, but very quickly, it moved through my system, and they gave me diarrhea.

And so I was like, okay, this is weird, but hopefully that doesn't continue.

And I think I took it about two and a half hours later, I started to feel some things.

And I was so excited.

I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm feeling things.

This is awesome.

We're going to get going.

Like, I can't believe that worked.

But they were very, I could tell from the start, the contractions were different, way different.

It almost felt like two little knives just like poking me in the back.

When before, you know, they're more like knots that squeeze in the back.

Like these were different.

And I told Adam, I was like, they're just like tinges of pain.

They're not like, they don't feel like contractions.

They don't feel like normal.

They feel like just pain, you know?

And I remember texting Michaela about it, actually.

It was like, when you took the cocktail, what did it feel like?

And she was describing it kind of similarly, and she said, but mine picked up a little bit after that.

So I was like, okay, I'm waiting.

If they're going to pick up, they're going to turn real.

It's going to be great.

And the whole time I kept having these, like, these are not real.

What's happening right now is not real.

This is Rox and Hicks.

This is something different.

I don't know.

This is not real.

It's not doing anything, I'm sure of it, right?

But anyways, I called the midwife.

I tell her, I start feeling things.

She's like, just why don't you just come to Statesville?

Just get closer to the birth center.

I'm like, oh, are you sure?

Okay, but I'm not coming right now.

I'll come closer, but I'm not going to come right now.

And she was like, that's fine.

Go get some lunch somewhere in town, and you know, see what happens.

So we did, we get closer.

It was funny because I was like, we need to go to Cracker Barrel, babe.

We need to go somewhere to sit down, because we need to be waited on.

We're not going to get fast food.

We need to waste as much time as possible here, because we're going to be here.

We're going to be waiting a while.

And at this point, these little like, tinges of pain are like six minutes apart.

I'm timing them, they're like six minutes apart.

And they only last for like 15 seconds.

It's weird.

It's the weirdest thing I've ever felt in my life.

We need to go sit at Cracker Barrel and have a meal.

When we get like five minutes from Cracker Barrel, I close my eyes and I tell Adam, I just say, no, honey.

No, we're going to need to go to Chick-fil-A.

I do need food.

I do need food, but we're going to need it to be quick.

We're going to need a drive-thru.

And he's like, what?

What do you mean?

What is going on?

And I said, I felt a real one.

I just felt a real one.

My first real contraction.

He's like, no, I think these are all real, Katie.

I'm like, no, that one was real.

That one was real.

And so, anywho, we get Chick-fil-A, and during the whole time I'm eating, these more real feelings are coming and happening.

I eat it, but then I realized, okay, I have to go to the bathroom again.

This is not good.

This cocktail has really messed me up.

I've got to go.

So we actually go into Home Depot, and we're walking through Home Depot, and having these intense contractions, and I go to the bathroom, I come back, and I'm like, okay, maybe we call and tell them, like, I feel like these are more intense.

Let's just call and check in.

So I call and check in, they say, why don't you come on in to the person?

I was like, in my head, I'm like, no, I really don't want to.

I really, really don't want to.

You guys do not understand.

I cannot sit with that disappointment again when you tell me I'm one centimeter dilated, because at this point, it's been a few hours.

Like, there's no way I'm dilated.

There's no way possible.

So we go, though, of course, and they put me right into a room, not an observation room.

They put me right into a birthing room, which was awesome, and check me, and oh my gosh.

She said, you're a three.

The chorus of heaven had just sung to me.

I was like, three?

Are you kidding me?

I don't feel like I've done anything.

It was crazy in comparison to my other experiences, because I was so happy.

I was like, oh, I could do this all day.

Like, let's go.

So that was immediately just really great.

The thing that was not so great was that these more intense contractions, when they were coming, they were coming every 45 seconds.

And in between every one of these painful contractions was those little tinges of pain.

And I described it to her, and I said, I don't feel like these are real contractions.

I haven't felt like really that I've had real contractions in a while.

And she told me, she said, this is the castor oil.

Sometimes it will really mess with people and give you a little different versions of contractions, different experiences.

And I was like, okay, well, I think it's really messing with me because it's working, so that's great.

It put me into labor.

But these contractions are coming literally every 30 to 45 seconds.

They don't last as long as I would say my contractions before were lasting between 60 and 90 seconds.

These are only lasting for maybe 20 to 30 seconds, but they were far, far more often.

And that was kind of, that was like the shift.

I was like, okay, I wonder if they're going to stay like this or not.

Anywho, so we did another thing.

There was a homeopathic remedy that they also gave me just to keep me going at that point.

I can't remember what the name of that is.

I'm going to have to look it up.

I'm so sorry, I forgot.

But we just encouraged the movement because I was still able to walk, so we walked around.

We did curb walking outside, those kinds of things.

It was so hot though.

So they told me I could come in and do a step stool.

And then we were just hanging.

We were just in labor.

And we quickly got my playlist on, which was a very, very, very big deal to me.

I had prayed over that music.

I had envisioned my labor to that music.

And it was very important to me.

So we got that on in the room.

And even though I was a three, I don't think they formally admitted me, but they allowed me to be in that birthing room because nobody else needed it, which was awesome.

Because up to my birth, I had a lot, a lot, a lot of anxiety around, well, if I go too soon, they're going to send me away.

If I go too soon, I'm going to have to go to a hotel or something.

I'm birthing a hotel, and that's going to be not good, you know?

And I just had all of this fear related to the number that I was at and whether they were going to admit me or not because of my previous births.

But this one had just gone so differently.

And they knew I'd taken the castor oil, my water was already broken, and so I think they were just a lot more flexible with what was going on, and nobody else was there that needed the room.

So yeah, my sister and my mom got there.

They hung up my birth affirmations, which if you have not done that, anybody do that.

It really helped me.

I prayed over my birth affirmations.

I prayed.

I had one with just like sayings and words, and then I had one with Bible verses straight from Scripture, and I just, oh, they were amazing.

And just really encouraging through the process.

And mentally, they helped me a lot.

And so my sister and mom hung those up around the room, and we were just birthing.

We were just having a good time.

The only thing I'll say, I was having diarrhea, like nonstop.

The castor oil in the mix, I think mixed with probably the chick-fil-a that I had.

Right.

Put the grease and the castor oil together.

Yeah, exactly.

Now, I will say that sounds horrible, and it was very horrible, but birthing, like being forced to be on the toilet and having those contractions on the toilet, wow.

It helped you progress, I bet.

It made, I think, a world of difference, because I could definitely tell the difference of the sensations when I was on the toilet.

But the thing about my progression and the way it was going, having those contractions every 30 seconds, I almost had anxiety during my contraction, because if I wanted to change position, if I wanted to put my hair up or those things that I'm thinking, if I needed to go pee, whatever, I had such a short window to communicate my needs to the birth team, that it was making me very, like I had to think through what I needed next so quickly, because I did not have time.

So that was what it was.

They allowed me to get in the shower before they checked me or anything, and that was amazing.

The shower head on my back, I bent over a birthing ball in the shower, and my sister had warm water on my, just spraying my back.

That was amazing.

And I just went through several different positions, a lot of the toilet, just standing, holding Adam with the pressure.

I would say this is the most intense back pressure I've ever had, or back labor, and I needed Adam to be, oh my gosh, the force of a freight train on my back.

And one time I remember I was going to the bathroom, I was on the toilet, and having a contraction, and I said, I'm really, really nauseous.

They had peppermint oil in the bottom of a nausea barf bag that I was sniffing, and that was on the other side of the room.

So I said, can I have the peppermint oil?

And the first person that went to go get it was Adam.

And so he went to go get it, and another contraction came, because they're coming back, back, back.

And so I'm kind of that panicky feeling, I don't know, I need somebody to hold me.

And so my sweet, sweet mama jumped in, and with her little hands tried to do the pressure.

And it just felt like a little mouse was grabbing me, compared to how strong and hard I was having Adam push on my back.

And so anyways, I got through that one.

And I said, thank you, Mom.

But I looked at Adam and I said, you cannot leave me.

I was locked eyes with him and was like, you cannot leave me.

Oh, gosh.

So he didn't leave my side again.

He was like, I was just trying to do what you asked me.

I got the back.

But anywho, we worked through it.

And because of that counter pressure, honestly, this one was the biggest experience because I felt like we had planned together, we had practiced together, and now we were playing in a big game together.

And I felt so incredibly close to Adam.

I just did.

I just felt like I could do anything if he was just holding my back.

And it was really intimate because even though it was back, like he was behind me, he would have his head come over my shoulder and just be right there in our face.

Their cheeks would touch.

And oh, gosh, that beautiful, just being in that moment.

I mean, all of these things that we don't think play a part, they play such a part in our birth.

And all of those good feelings that I was feeling, all of that closeness, like it just helped my body do what it was supposed to do.

And it was working, and we were working.

And even though I was going to the bathroom, even though my contractions were coming every 30 seconds, I still felt so close to Adam.

I felt so close to the Lord.

And in one of the positions, I was on the bed, and I was sideways.

And my sister was in front of me, and Adam was on my back.

My mom was holding the fan on me, because I was really hot.

And my sister just had my sheet of birth affirmations, and I was reading them, because I could barely talk.

And I just started to cry.

And they were just the happiest tears, because I was like, I'm going to cry right now.

I was like, the Lord was giving me what I wanted, like what I had asked for.

And oh gosh, sorry.

And all I had to do was ask him.

All I had to do was like invite him in.

And it was just beautiful.

I had no one pressuring me about pitocin.

I had no one like a monitor on my belly.

My body was doing what it was made to do, and it was just really beautiful.

So I'm just forever grateful for that moment.

And I wasn't even in the water.

I wasn't even what you would consider maybe active labor or whatever.

I don't know, but I was just birthing, and I was in labor land, and I was happy as a clam, even though I was doing some hard, hard work.

And that's really what it was, was hard work.

So you still haven't been checked beyond the first initial when you were at a three, and you're laboring on and off the toilet and in and out of different positions in the bed, and the counter pressure is going real strong for your back.

So what happens next?

So we get to a position where I thought would be good.

Also, I'm using combs, and those were amazing.

I loved that technique.

I know that does not work for everybody, but I loved the squeezing.

I had two combs in my hand the whole time.

And I had the two combs, and I went on all fours on the bed.

And like, you know, knees kind of separated, head down kind of in the pillow, and that was the position I was swaying in and out there.

And it was in that position.

And I thought it was just the position, but it was in that position where I thought to myself, nope, I can't do it.

Which we know is the infamous you're probably in transition.

You're probably almost done then.

I literally, I didn't even have to say it.

My sister could see the look on my face.

I shook my head as if I said, I can't do it.

And she just said, yes, you can.

You are so close.

Yes, you can.

But which was weird, I haven't even been checked.

So, you know, am I in transition?

Am I not?

It was just like a down moment, whatever.

But this was, they were trying to wait till that 48 hour mark to like really check me.

And they came in, I'm trying to make sure I get the details right.

They came in and I was on the bed.

They're checking the heart rate, heartbeat, right?

And so it looks okay.

They're good.

And then they checked me at that point.

It is about six o'clock.

So we're right up about that 48 hour mark.

And she checks me.

And I'm like anxiously waiting.

What's the number?

What's the number?

And I am a six.

Hey, look at that.

Okay, so that is the reaction that everybody in the room had.

Like, oh my gosh, yay.

Look at the progress.

You're a six.

You're in active labor.

This is amazing.

And I'm immediately like, I'm only a six?

And so I think if it took me this long to get to a six, it's going to take me so much longer to get to a ten.

And obviously, I'm not thinking how quickly it normally goes right at the end.

I'm just thinking negatively, of course, trying to...

So I combat that feeling because everybody in the room is so supportive, so encouraging.

And so I was like, okay, you're right.

I can do this.

I snap back into it.

And I'm like, okay, but can I please get in the water, in the tub now?

Can I please get in the tub?

That's what I want so badly.

I want to get in the tub.

And she's like, yes, you can.

I want you to do a few more contractions on the potty, though.

And once you get there, and I was like, good, I have to go to the bathroom anyways, continuously have to go to the bathroom, which was horrible.

So she's like, do a few more on the potty, and then we'll get the tub filled up for you.

So the breathing assistant's getting the tub filled up.

I go get on the toilet.

And she, I think, wanted to check the heart rate again.

So while I'm on the toilet, so we're prepared to move into the tub, she's trying to find the heart rate.

And she's having some trouble in that position.

I was on the toilet.

So she's like, why don't you come back over to the bed for me?

And it's like, okay.

So I lay on the bed, and she is trying to find that heart rate.

And she finds it.

She's listening.

She's, you know, assessing.

She's calm.

She's assessing the heart rate.

And I don't really know.

I can't remember, you know, the words exactly, but she explains to me that maybe this, the baby just seems in distress.

The heart rate has gone through a very, a pretty severe de-escalation.

It is not necessarily that it's at a level so low that we have to be like super concerned, but it's that it was at a certain rate, and now it is this much lower.

And it's only been 30 minutes or so since that happened.

And so that was the concerning part.

And so we go through that a little bit more, and waiting for, okay, is it, she's assessing, is it just during the contractions when that's happening?

What, you know, trying to make an educated call, you know.

And at that point, she's like, you know, we're going to need to, we're going to need to have your baby.

Like, we need to, it went from, we're just birthing and laboring and creating.

It went from that to like, we need to get your baby out, you know.

A pretty serious tone came into play.

And I was like, I'm about to get in the water.

In my head, I'm like, maybe if I get in the water, it'll be fine.

And then everything will calm down a little bit.

But that was not the case because the heart rate was continued to be low at the same level.

It was not, you know, going back to normal.

Going back up.

Right.

And so she checked me.

And just to see, you know, where we're at, assess in there.

And I was actually at an eight.

Oh, in like 30 minutes.

Yeah, those two contractions on the toilet.

I was like, definitely.

Okay, yeah, maybe I was in transition when that happened and going through that.

So she said, I'm at an eight.

She said, and she looked at me and said, but Katie, we're going to work together and I'm going to stretch your cervix while you push.

We have called EMS and they are in route.

If your baby comes before that, that's okay.

You don't, we don't have to go with EMS.

We're going to try this and we're going to work together and, you know, go to this next step.

But it is going to take me stretching your cervix and you pushing, bearing down with all of your might.

To get this going.

And I said, okay.

And when she said EMS, I was just like, game on.

We're going to do this now.

Yeah.

And so she did what she had to do.

My sister told me, I couldn't really see very well.

I was on my back and I asked if I could be in a different position.

I was like, I just do not want to be on my back right now.

And she said it's the best way that she's going to have access to my cervix right now.

It was in that position.

So I had to be on my back.

And she, two hands in, stretching as much as she could while I was pushing.

And when I say I felt like one of my, like somebody was at my legs and somebody was at my hands and they were just pulling me apart, that is what it felt like.

My insides were just ripping apart.

And it's okay.

I was like, in the moment, I was like, this is the most painful thing that's ever happened to me, but I am not going to the hospital.

And my baby is in distress, and I need to get my baby right now.

Like my motherly instinct, it was like, I was screaming, screaming.

My sister was videoing, which I'm glad I have, but those are something to watch.

And it took about 15 minutes of that for him to make his way down her stretch enough for him to make his way down the birth canal.

And I remember she told me, she said, you only have to push during contractions.

And I told her, I said, I don't know when there's a contraction anymore.

It's just constant.

It was constant.

There's no break in this.

And she was like, oh, okay, I'll try to help you through that.

So we were going through, and he was finally ready.

And she could tell, like, okay, he's ready, he's here.

On your next push, you are going to bear down.

You are going to, you know, just hyphen me up.

You are going to meet your baby.

This is your last push.

You're going to, you know, he's right here.

And, you know, my sister and my mom, during that whole time that I was pushing and screaming, they are literally on the bed next to me, and I have full body chills, but they are on the bed next to me with their hands over just praying, like out loud praying.

And it was just so cool because they're like, you know, there was just this intense, really intense moment.

And Adam is, of course, next to me, holding my legs and encouraging as well.

And these contractions, they were, you know, as I said, had been coming very quickly.

So when she said, during this next contraction, you're going to push, we were like, okay, we're ready to push.

And so I was anxiously, like, awaiting this contraction, like it's going to come any second now.

And it didn't come.

Like, there was this long, long, long, long, long, I mean, maybe two minutes of pause.

Like, I kept, every time I would breathe, they would be like, ready to jump in.

And like I was, it was happening, but it wasn't.

And I kept saying, it's not coming.

Like, this is the longest pause that I've had during this whole day of having contractions.

Like, this is crazy, but it's just so amazing.

Like, my body knew that I was going to need, I needed a second to breathe, to catch my breath, to bear, get my strength back, and to have the ability to do that final push.

And it was just so cool that that happened.

And then I pushed him out, and in one push, like he came out, really, really big push.

And this might sound gross, but I know you'll appreciate it.

After having two births with an epidural, feeling that feeling, I felt no ring of fire.

I felt nothing.

There was just pressure on the inside of everything at that point.

But feeling their body actually come out was so cool.

It was so cool.

I was like, I've never felt that before.

And so that was really fun.

And Adam describes it this way when he tells the story that it's like she had a hot potato in her hand, how quickly she got the baby and put the baby on my chest.

Because it's so important to them to have that moment.

And so anyways, he came out, he was covered in Varnix, which was funny.

None of our other babies were.

And crying, breathing fine.

She assessed him right away.

Like his coloring, she could tell he was fine.

And so they didn't touch him.

They didn't rub him to death.

And we just got that moment.

And I had this relief.

I just was crying.

And Adam was a mess.

He was like crying too.

And it was just a really cool moment.

And I just remember saying, we did it.

Like, we did it.

Like, oh my gosh, we did it.

We made it, you know.

And it was crazy.

And in a moment, I did not care that I wasn't in the water.

But looking back, I was like, gosh, I wish I would have had my water birth.

I didn't get that.

But it doesn't mean it wasn't beautiful.

And it doesn't mean anything less of the whole experience.

And, you know, it was so great.

They said, okay, we're going to call off EMS now.

I was like, okay, good, perfect.

The message has been sitting in the parking lot waiting.

Maybe, maybe.

And then a little bit later, we delivered placenta.

And then they left us alone for the longest time.

And we just got to sit in bed.

And like, I could actually talk and breathe during that.

And what nobody warned me of is that those contractions, those...

The after pain.

The after pain, yeah.

But those get worse with each baby.

Worse every baby.

Nobody warned me of that.

You didn't take my class, Katie.

What can I say?

No, I'm just kidding.

But we do talk about that in the class for sure, because nobody warned me either for my first or second or whatever.

But yes, I, yep, they get worse with every baby.

I was like having a breath through them.

I was like, what in the world?

They're like real contractions.

Yeah.

Exactly, yeah.

Oh, but once again, Murphy latched right away.

I'm so, so blessed with good nurses.

So we had that moment.

They got me waffle house.

That's what I wanted as my meal.

Yeah, that I ate after birth.

And yeah, so he was born at 715, and we did the discharge stuff and any kind of like closeout things.

They helped me take a shower, which that shower was luxurious, and get cleaned up.

And we were on the road to get home by 11 o'clock.

Yeah, sounds about right.

Which was crazy.

I mean, crazy.

Even after rowing, we said we're leaving at the 24-hour mark from the hospital.

And even that was hard to get done, because they were like, 24 hours, that's not enough time.

Like they just drug their feet with the discharge paperwork and everything.

But this time, I mean, they were like, yeah, get on the road, go home.

And it was good.

I'm so happy for you.

And that third experience, that's incredible.

Especially like just hearing the sequencing from the first to the second to the third.

So then, through all those experiences, first, second, and third combined, and maybe it's more than one thing, but what do you feel like God taught you through that time, through those things?

So many things.

The biggest thing would probably be to know that I am just so far from being in control, so far.

And that applies to, I feel like, your mental state as well, because I tried to control everything physically that was going to happen during my first two births, but I also thought I was in control of my mind enough.

I thought I was prepared enough to go through the process and mentally win the war of that.

And I just wasn't.

I thought I could control and will myself into what I wanted to happen.

I thought I was prepared enough with knowledge to know during my second birth what to do, what to tell them.

But it didn't matter because my body wasn't going to get me there.

So the Lord just really, I mean, it's crazy.

You can't fight it, you know, it's just you're not in control.

And the sooner you are to recognize that, the better off that you're going to be because you can surrender that, surrender that to the Lord.

So that was definitely the biggest thing.

The other thing was just that like God gave us community, you know, He gave us resources to assist us, you know, to educate us.

He gave us community to support us, to pray for us.

And He gave us a spouse to lean on and to ask for help.

And that's how we were designed.

And so don't do it in your own strength.

Don't run and think that you just have to have all the answers by yourself or, you know, even that it just has to be you and your husband, even though that was a very special experience too.

But at the same time, inviting people into that space that I trusted were going to honor it were really, really good, especially the prayer and the spiritual support that I felt like they brought into that space too.

So basically just that taught me just you cannot do it alone.

So I think that's a reminder we all need in, especially in birth, but in many areas in life.

Oh my goodness.

So do you have any advice for any moms or dads out there who are expecting right now?

So much.

Take Kayla's class.

You're funny.

Take somebody's class.

Do something.

Educate yourself.

Just be prepared.

Be prepared not only with knowledge of what could happen and what options that you do have, but more than that, prepare your mind mentally and really focus on that.

I would say that's the strongest muscle that you need to do to really work in birth and that experience.

And I think that goes so forgotten about, I feel like, just that preparation.

And I feel like that alone is what made the difference.

And my third is that I was prepared mentally, and I felt a lot more prepared spiritually.

So that would be my advice to just use resources.

Have a doula.

If you don't have a family support person that's educated, have somebody in that room with you that can anticipate your needs for you or to help you, encourage you along.

Not to bark you around or be too embracive in that environment, but honestly just to help you.

And most importantly, invite the Lord in.

Lean on Him.

He wants to take that.

He wants to do it with you.

It can be such a joyful experience if you let it.

It can be such a life-giving experience.

You're literally giving life, if you're bringing life into the world.

It honestly can be such a great experience if you just ask.

Just ask.

Well, thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you for what you're doing and all that you're doing in the space.

It's really, really important.

Well, it's my heart and my soul, and I feel really called to it.

Thanks again for joining us today.

You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram, or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

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