042 - (with Elizabeth Smith)

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SHOW NOTES:

Pregnancy is such a miracle, isn’t it? You have life growing within you, God has designed your body perfectly to grow this precious little one inside of your womb, so you should be dancing through life, right? Well, when you have Hyperemesis Gravidarum and uncontrollable gestational diabetes, it’s not such a walk in the park. Hear how Liz navigated the harsh reality that was her pregnancy, and learned how to really lean on God for the first time to get her through. 

You can follow Liz on instagram at @littledove_co
You can also find more information about the sleep education services she offers families on her website at https://www.littledoveco.com/. 

Want to connect with us? Have a question?
Shoot us a DM at @surrenderedbirthservices on Instagram, and give us a follow while you're there!

TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hey, everyone.

I hope the start to your summer has been wonderful so far.

We are full in summer now.

I really started feeling the heat.

Thankfully, it's not too bad yet.

We haven't reached 90 or anything, but these mid-80s and sunny weather have been quite pleasant.

We were able to even take our kids to Jordan Lake, which is about an hour from us here in North Carolina for a beach day slash lake day.

It's like a beach at the lake day, and it was so much fun.

We had just perfect weather and it wasn't too crowded, and we all had such a good time.

The kids loved the sand and the splashing and the water, and the water was actually quite warm, which was really nice.

If you haven't checked it out and you are anywhere near Jordan Lake, which is kind of southwest Raleigh area, I highly recommend checking it out.

I think it was like $7 for the whole car for the whole day, which is way cheaper than going to a pool for our family anyways.

So check it out.

It was really fun.

I think good for little kids too, because the water is really shallow at the beginning, and then it's not like crazy waves or anything.

So it's pretty safe, which is great.

If you haven't left a review for this show yet, we would really, really appreciate your review.

It means a lot to us.

It means a lot to this show, and it helps get this show in front of more people.

So whatever platform you're listening on, if you could just take a couple of minutes now, or just a minute, it really doesn't take that long, and just go rate the show, hopefully a five-star rating, and just a quick review of maybe why you like this show, or what's so good about it, or how it could help other people.

That would really mean a lot to my husband and I.

All right, let's get into this week's episode.

Pregnancy is such a miracle, isn't it?

You have life growing within you.

God has designed your body perfectly to grow this precious little one inside of your womb.

So you should be dancing, right?

Dancing through life, having a great time.

Well, when you have hyperemesis gravidarum, also known as HG, an uncontrollable gestational diabetes, it's not such a walk in the park.

Hear how Liz navigated the harsh reality that was her pregnancy and learned how to really lean on God for the first time to get her through.

Welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I am excited to have my guest with me today.

Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your family and who you are.

Hi, thanks for having me.

I'm Liz Smith and I am a postpartum doula.

I also have two kids and I'm gonna be sharing their birth stories today.

We live just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, so not too far from you.

We currently both stay at home with our kids and we work on our own businesses.

I do a lot of virtual pre-birth type classes, like parenting, infant care, infant sleep, things like that.

So that's been exciting and very helpful in my own parenting journey.

I bet.

I've seen infant sleep classes.

So what all does that entail?

I've never taken an infant sleep class.

I mean, I've had five kids, but sleep is, I feel like, always the number one issue in our baby days.

Oh, always.

And it's also different.

So I do a prenatal class where we talk about what's gonna be normal for infant sleep, when to reach out for help.

Because I find a lot of times, it's really just people need to know what they're in for, and they may have expectations that are too high for an infant, and that causes a lot of stress in the family when really we need to just relax and understand that it's normal for babies to wake at night.

It's normal for them to feed to sleep, to be rocked to sleep.

You know, they're gonna want to be in close contact with you for a long time.

All of that is so normal, and that just puts a lot of people's minds at ease that, okay, I'm not doing anything wrong, not setting up bad habits, all of that.

And then I also do one-on-one sessions for babies and toddlers throughout the first one to three years to kind of troubleshoot problems if they're having super late nights or lots of night wakings, hourly wakings, things like that, that could indicate a bigger problem that we might need to address.

So we do that through very gentle methods.

I don't do any cry it out.

We address it from a very biologically normal standpoint.

Cool.

Well, I mean, I was already planning on doing this, but I would definitely put your information in your...

I know you have an Instagram page, so I'll put that in the show notes.

Do you have a website or something?

I do, yes.

And it's just littledevco.com.

We'll include all that.

So if anyone out there is having sleeping issues, they can come straight to you.

Because that's definitely like...

Yes, please.

I wouldn't say my area of expertise.

I will say I usually educate through the early postpartum days and kind of like what to expect in those first several months.

But I would say sleep is, yes, an issue that is ever changing and ever going and continues on beyond those first few months postpartum for sure.

Okay, so let's talk about your birth stories.

Let's get into the first one.

So what was it like finding out you were pregnant for the first time?

What was that experience like?

Oh, my gosh, it was so exciting.

We were very much planning for our first baby, or both of our babies were very much planned.

So I took a pregnancy test very early on thinking, it probably won't be positive yet, it's probably too early.

And I was so shocked when two lines came up.

I didn't even think to plan to either have my husband in there with me or anything.

I just was taking it because we were planning on getting sushi that night, and I wanted to know what I could have.

So I saw it and I was just in shock that it was positive, because it had been a few months that we had been trying and nothing was happening yet.

So I kind of was expecting another negative.

And that night, we actually had a friend in town, so I had to wait to tell him until later.

I don't know why I did that.

I set myself up for several hours of keeping that secret.

And so I ended up ordering a couple of baby things from Target and having them delivered to our house.

And I set them up in our room, and after our friend left, I had my husband come in and he saw them, and we were both so excited and ready to get started with parenthood.

But my pregnancy was difficult, to say the least.

I also had HG, and I was not expecting that, really.

I mean, who is?

And it hit starting right around five weeks, and I was just very sick from that moment.

Most of my pregnancy, I did get a bit of a reprieve in the third trimester, but for the most part, I was at least very nauseous the entire time.

And then I also had gestational diabetes during that pregnancy, which I was sort of expecting because my mom had it with me.

So I knew I had some risk factors for it.

But when I went in to have my glucose test done, I was like still so disappointed that I had it.

And I had it very bad, which was uncontrolled with diet, exercise, insulin, metformin, all the things.

My blood sugars were still very much out of control.

So that was pregnancy.

And I had been envisioning my birth being either at home or in a birth center.

We live about an hour away from the birth center.

But once I found out I had gestational diabetes, I risked out of both of those anyway.

So I was glad that I had made the move to go with the hospital in the first place.

I really just felt led by the Lord to go with the hospital.

So you said they tried controlling it with your diet and with insulin and with medication, but none of that helped at all?

No, it kept a lot of my numbers in range, but my fasting numbers were always very high, and I just could not get any of those under control.

Did you feel physical effects of that yourself, or would it have been undetective unless you tested?

Well, and I'm a huge advocate for getting tested for gestational diabetes, because a lot of the symptoms that I felt, I would have just attributed to normal pregnancy things.

Like I was very thirsty all the time, I was peeing all the time, which, you know, when you're pregnant, both of those things are pretty normal.

And I was just exhausted all the time.

I never got that second trimester energy that people talk about.

That's been elusive in my pregnancies.

So those three things, I would attribute to the gestational diabetes, because once I did start changing my diet and getting on insulin, some of that did resolve, but I would have never thought it was out of the ordinary.

And in my first pregnancy, I did the standard like glu-cola drink and it was fine.

It tasted fine, it was whatever.

But in my second pregnancy, I did the fresh test.

And it was a much better experience doing the fresh test.

It tasted so good, I wasn't worried about what was in it.

And my midwife's office, they use the dye-free glu-cola anyway, but I still, I really wanted to try the fresh test because I'd heard so much about it.

Yeah.

And I was glad that I did that.

Can you explain what it is just for people who are like, what is she talking about?

Yes.

So the fresh test is an FDA-approved alternative to the glu-cola drink, and it tastes like lemonade.

It's very delicious.

And it has the exact amount of glucose that is recommended for the gestational diabetes test, which there are lots of options to take the diabetes test.

You know, some people do jelly beans or big breakfast or something like that, but it's really not controlled to the point.

Like you could still miss gestational diabetes doing those tests because they're just not controlled enough.

It's different types of sugar.

And also, I'm not sure I want to eat 50 jelly beans either.

I might rather just drink the drink.

So it really just depends on your priorities and what's really, what's important to you too, because I know some people, I have a lot of friends who try to stay away from a lot of sugar, a lot of food dyes, things like that.

So it's important to talk to your provider and help them work with you to pick something.

Because another alternative for me was also just taking my own blood sugar at home for a few days, a week or two, which I would have done had I not passed the first test in my second pregnancy.

I did not have gestational diabetes in my second pregnancy.

If I had to do the three hour test again, I would have declined and done at home blood sugar testing.

Yeah.

That three hour test is rough.

Especially if you're sick already, if you're feeling sick and then you have to fast and drink a drink with three times the amount of sugar in the first drink.

It's not a good combination.

No.

So the fresh test isn't something, I mean, I know what it is, but it's not something that's offered in providers' offices.

You have to order it and bring it in yourself, correct?

Yes, and you can purchase it through LabCorp, or you can go to the fresh test website and buy it through them.

But it's recognized by the FDA, by LabCorp.

So it's a very valid test, and no one should tell you that it's not.

There you go.

If your provider is arguing with you, you heard it here.

I will, I'll put a link for that too.

I have had several clients opt for the fresh test instead of the glu-cola, so.

Yeah, it was very good.

I would have kept drinking it.

Tasted delicious.

It was so yummy.

So, okay, so you were really sick, nauseous, HG, gestational diabetes, that does not sound like a fun pregnancy at all.

No, it was not ideal.

And I feel like when you go into your first pregnancy, you're just sort of expecting this time of glowing and like, frolicking through a field.

Yeah, feeling so beautiful.

And I just did not, I was so swollen by the end of it.

I was not, you know, this glamorous experience, but I still am, you know, people have asked me, they're like, okay, so you hated being pregnant then?

I'm like, sort of, but I also loved it.

And I, you know, I don't know how to explain that other than like, I loved feeling her moving around in me.

And I love knowing this is temporary and I am going to meet her soon.

And I'm doing all this for her.

This is my sacrifice, my first time as a mother.

And I really, I did feel so close to the Lord during all of that, because I had to.

I, you know, I still worked full-time, I don't know how.

And I had to really lean on the Lord every morning to even just get out of bed and make it to my car and get through the day and come home.

And that was, you know, before we had any kids.

So I could relax as much as possible once I was home.

Right.

Which is so nice.

That's the biggest perk of your first pregnancy, I think, is...

Totally...

.

able to sleep whenever you want.

I agree.

I'm always, that's...

It makes me wonder if I would have had like HG in my first pregnancy had I had like other kids to take care of.

Yeah, right.

Because my first one, it's like looking back, I'm like, well, that one was by far the easiest.

But I'm like, but I also literally slept all the time.

All the time.

Okay.

I'm just curious.

What time of the year were you do like winter, spring, summer, fall?

I was due in late April.

Okay.

So spring baby.

Of 2021.

Oh, really?

I had one of my babies in late April of 2021.

Oh, you were pregnant at the same time.

We were.

Okay, so then how late did your pregnancy go then?

How far along were you when you went into labor?

Or did you go into labor, I should ask?

Well, yeah, I didn't go into labor with that one.

I was induced, which I chose, and I worked with my midwives to decide what we should do.

I really, really wanted to go into labor on my own.

I was already grieving the loss of my, you know, that I pictured the home birth, the birth center birth, all of that.

And I was even feeling a lot of shame for choosing a hospital birth, just because, you know, I've always advocated for birth choices and all of that.

So I felt like I was going against my own, what I stood for by choosing a hospital birth, and then furthermore, choosing an induction.

And people will always have something to say.

So a lot of times I would get the whole like, oh, don't you know about interventions?

Don't you know about the cascade of interventions?

And I was like, yes, I do.

But they very much have their place.

And I feel in this pregnancy, with my blood sugars being as high as they are, and my blood pressure starting to creep higher, I feel more comfortable inducing labor now than waiting and then possibly having a more emergent situation later.

So it was because of your blood sugars and your blood pressure that you went ahead to choose to induce?

Yes.

So how far along were you then?

So I was exactly 39 weeks when I went into the hospital.

My midwife and I made the call to schedule induction at right at 38 weeks.

We really decided like, okay, 39 weeks is probably a good goal to shoot for.

If she comes earlier than that, that's great.

If not, and then we, I set an appointment for the day before my induction or the day of my induction, one or the other to just check on her and everything.

And if things had been different, then we may have decided to push it out a little further.

But with my blood pressure continuing to be a little on the high side, and my blood sugars were just creeping higher and higher, we decided to go ahead and go for the induction.

So that's what we did.

We scheduled for the day.

I turned 39 weeks, and I went in that night.

They kind of put you on an on-call situation.

They're like, okay, we'll call you and let you know when you can come into the hospital tonight or it could even be tomorrow.

And I was like, okay.

Whenever a bed is available?

Yes, yeah.

So we decided to order in pizza and rent a movie and just try to relax and try to enjoy what we thought would be our last night.

We didn't think they were gonna call that night.

So we just were relaxing, hanging out, and around 10 o'clock, I got a call and it was the hospital asking if I wanted to go ahead and come in.

They had a bed open up earlier than anticipated.

And I was so surprised that I don't think I said anything.

I was just like, okay.

And then I finally remembered to say like, okay, so we'll be there soon then.

And I don't even know if I told my husband like, oh, this is what's happening.

I think I just said like, oh, I'm gonna go take a shower now.

And he was like, why?

Why?

And I was like, oh, we're gonna go have a baby.

And he was like, oh, okay, so it's happening then.

So we took our showers, we got ready, we got in the car, and on the way to the hospital, we called our pastors who are also some of our best friends and they prayed with us.

And that was really special.

You know, we let our parents know what we were doing.

And we got to the hospital, and I had already filled out all the paperwork, you know, so it was very smooth.

Everything was very calm at the hospital that night.

Nothing was really going on.

So I had kind of all the midwives' attention, which was, it was really nice.

I had wonderful nurses and wonderful midwives.

They were so great.

I went in and got in my gown and all of that.

And they checked me, and I was absolutely nothing was going on.

I was zero centimeters.

I hadn't had any cervical checks up until that point, because I, you know, it wasn't going to change my mind.

So I was like, why worry about it?

Yeah.

But I still was surprised when she said zero centimeters.

I was a little bit slightly effaced.

So something was starting, but-

A little bit, yeah.

Not a lot.

So we decided to start with Cytotec, and that's, you know, the pill you put in your cheek and you wait for it to dissolve for about 30 minutes, and you do that every four hours.

So they didn't do anything, they didn't do any Cytotec vaginally?

No, we went for the oral route first.

And after, I think I took two doses of that.

So about eight hours in, I was about half a centimeter dilated.

And you know, they had really prepared me well for the induction could take a really long time.

So I was not surprised at all that it was taking forever.

We just sort of settled in with movies and books and hung out, and I ate during that whole time.

They had me order food every time a meal popped up, which was really nice.

And at about half a centimeter dilated, they recommended we go with the Foley bulb.

Were they able to fit it in at half a centimeter?

Yeah, I was impressed.

Yeah, I was too.

I didn't know, because my body was starting to not tolerate the cytotech well anymore.

She was having some heart decels, and I was having some side effects that now I suddenly can't remember what those were.

But either way, we weren't tolerating it super well.

Were you having contractions?

Yes, because I could see them on the monitor, but I wasn't feeling anything.

I wasn't in any pain.

I wasn't even having any cramping or anything.

So they were happening, because I could see them on the monitor, but no pain yet, which was very nice.

Yeah.

So is this like the morning, then the next day?

Yes.

Yes, so that's the morning of the next day, and they inserted the first Bully Balloon Cook's Catheter.

It's got all kinds of names.

Right, whatever you wanna call it.

Yeah, all the things.

And that for me, I know a lot of people say that that's really uncomfortable for them.

For me, it wasn't really, I mean, the initial insertion was not pleasant, but it wasn't painful.

And then once it was in and blown up, then it was fine.

I didn't have any discomfort after that.

I did start to feel some cramping, but even that then kind of soon stopped.

And we spent the day, I couldn't bounce on the birth ball anymore because of all the wires and tubes and stuff coming out.

So I spent a lot of the day just trying to walk around the room and do anything to get it to work, do some squats, some lunges, like anything.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, we did hire a doula for this birth.

So we had been in contact with her just throughout.

I hadn't asked her to come to the hospital yet, but we talked to her throughout and got her advice on what I should do.

And she gave me some positions to be in and so on and so forth.

So we did that for 12 hours.

And then at 12 hours, they came back in to take it out.

And I still was not very fine.

I was maybe at two centimeters.

So it was still a very slow process.

And they recommended actually just putting another one right back in.

And I was like, okay, let's do it then.

Here we go.

So we did that.

They put that one in.

And again, it was like slightly uncomfortable, but nothing terrible.

And it was fine.

But then about 20 minutes later-ish, I got up to go to the bathroom.

And when I stood up from the toilet, it fell out.

And I was so surprised.

I was like, oh my gosh, what just happened?

And I started crying because I was like, oh no, they're gonna have to put it back in.

Like, oh, it's gonna be a whole thing.

And then my husband was like, oh, I think they said that's supposed to happen.

Right, when you get to...

Yeah, and I was actually about five centimeters dilated by then.

So it had made some quick progress at that point, and that's why it fell out, which is now I know what it's supposed to do.

So in 20 minutes, you went from like a two to a five?

Yeah.

Did you feel that?

So at that point, I finally made some progress.

I still wasn't having a lot of contractions.

I was just having some mild cramping.

Oh, solid.

So I wasn't thinking that anything was happening.

Once that one came out, they had me actually go to sleep.

They were like, try to, they may have given me something to help me sleep.

Try to sleep for a few hours, and we'll see what your body does on its own, if it takes over, or we'll reassess in the morning if we need to start Pitocin or anything like that.

So is this like 10 o'clock at night now or something?

Yes, so now we're about 24 hours in to the process.

So I did, I went to sleep for a few hours.

They did have to come in at one point and flip me over.

I guess she was having some heart decels.

So I flipped over, went back to sleep, woke up a few hours later, they came in to check me, and I was still about five, maybe five and a half, still not really having any strong contractions at all, just some cramping.

So we decided to start a little bit of Pitocin, just the lowest amount and see what would happen.

So we did that.

And was that like the middle of the night or the next morning?

It was the next morning.

So it was about five or six a.m.

the next morning.

Yeah, and they actually had me order breakfast first, which was really nice of them.

They had me order something for breakfast to eat first and then started Pitocin after that.

They didn't want you to eat once you started Pitocin then?

Right.

And they did tell me, my midwives, they were like kind of hush hush about it.

They were like, I mean, we can't stop you from eating.

So, just so you know, we won't be back for an hour or so.

You know, wink wink.

Wink wink.

I did have a couple of protein bars here and there, even after that.

But they were aware of it.

They knew that I was probably gonna eat when they weren't in the room.

So just in case something did happen, they at least knew I had been eating.

So we started Pitocin around 6 a.m., I think, and they would come in every 30 minutes or so to bump it up a little bit until we could see contractions happening.

And I could see on the monitor that I was having contractions.

They just were not painful, which was great.

I loved that period of my labor.

It was very nice.

I did a lot of standing and swaying and movement.

I tried to keep going.

We did call my doula to go ahead and come at that point.

So she was at the hospital with us, having me change positions really frequently, which was so annoying at the time, but I'm so glad she did that because it really helped get things going.

Somewhere, it's foggy on the timeframe, but somewhere in that morning, I did need to get on an insulin drip because my blood sugars were just so out of whack and I could not get them to come down.

It didn't matter what I was eating or how much I was moving.

So we did do an insulin drip, which really changed things for me in labor because now I had an IV in my arm for fluids.

I had an IV in my hand for pitocin and I had an IV in my other hand for insulin.

Wait, they were going in three different holes?

Yes, and I don't know why.

I remember why the insulin drip was in my hand because it was started later and I already had two things going on one side.

Or it's possible that they had tried to start one in my arm and couldn't and had to go to my hand for...

But yeah, I definitely had one in each hand for sure.

Wow.

So it changed how I was laboring because I liked being on my hands and knees or like, you know, over the bed.

And a lot of those positions, I couldn't do anymore because I couldn't put any weight on my hands.

So it really, at that point, started to get a little more intense because a lot of the things I was doing for comfort, I couldn't do anymore.

So I tried bouncing on the ball.

That was not it for me.

I did, before I started the Pitocin and the insulin, I did get in the shower for a little while, and that helped.

But once I started both of those, I couldn't do that anymore either.

So that, it got a lot more intense once those two things were no longer options.

Oh, because you were on the Pitocin, not like you didn't want to.

Yeah.

So, and I had, I forgot to mention this too, I did have a wireless monitor, so I could move around as much as I wanted to.

And my husband or my doula would just follow me around with the IV poles, just follow me wherever I went.

I was just walking around in my mesh diaper and nursing bra, hospital gown outfit.

It was very cute.

Yeah, so as they kept bumping the Pitocin up, I was definitely having stronger contractions, but they still were not very painful.

But then kind of out of nowhere at about noon of that day, somewhere between 11 and noon, they suddenly changed from not painful to very painful, all within about 10 to 20 minutes.

It was a very, very fast change.

So we had the midwife come in to check me, and I hadn't dilated much more.

I was almost completely effaced, though.

So things were happening.

I was about six, maybe six and a half centimeters at that point.

So it made a little bit of progress there.

And that's when they turned Pitocin off, because clearly I was having productive contractions at that point.

And I did go ahead and opt for an epidural.

So I asked them to go ahead and come in.

That and I was throwing up pretty constantly.

And between that and the insulin and the IVs in both arms, I was like, I just cannot take this anymore.

I can't do anything that's making it feel better.

And I had already been in labor for quite some time at that point.

So anesthesia came in.

I loved her.

She was wonderful.

She placed the most perfect epidural.

It was great.

I had a wonderful epidural experience.

It was placed perfectly the first time.

I didn't have any reactions to it.

It was great.

It ended up working so well.

I just couldn't feel anything at all from the waist down.

So not only could I not move, I just couldn't feel anything.

So I decided to take a nap.

It was such a good nap.

I remember putting on my eye mask and just laying down and taking a nap, and I woke up, and I asked them to go ahead and check me again.

And I was about 9.5 centimeters dilated by Ben, which was great.

I was very surprised because it had only been a couple of hours.

I think at that point, my body really just needed to relax.

I could not relax before that, and I couldn't let anything happen.

So that was really great.

And so they were like, okay, cool.

So we'll just come back and check you soon and see where you're at.

And if you feel pressure or anything, let us know.

So I just laid there for a while, and I was talking to my doula and my husband, and my doula had me move on my side, or rather they moved me onto my side since I couldn't move myself.

With the peanut ball?

And put my leg up with the peanut ball and put my foot in one of the stirrups to hold it up since I couldn't hold it up by myself.

And within about five minutes, I felt a lot of pressure.

I was like, wow, that was fast.

That position really works.

Yes, it does.

So we called the midwife back in, and she was like, yeah, sure enough.

I can see her head up there.

And your body was just doing it on its own at that point.

You weren't on Pitocin anymore?

Right.

We had turned Pitocin off at that point.

I wasn't sure if they turned it back on or something.

Which was nice.

Somewhere in there, they did turn it back on, because after I got the epidural, I stopped having contractions for a little while.

So they did turn it back on for some time and then turned it back off.

It was off for the last part of my labor, as far as I know.

So I started feeling a lot of pressure, and my midwife said, you can start pushing if you'd like, or you can wait until your body just takes over or whatever you'd like to do.

And I was like, well, let me do a couple of practice pushes and just see if anything happens, and if nothing's happening or I feel unproductive, then we can always wait until later.

So everybody got in their positions and watched me do a couple of practice pushes.

She was moving down, and I was still feeling a lot of pressure and a lot of that bearing down kind of feeling, which I was surprised.

I wasn't expecting to feel that with an epidural.

I thought I wouldn't feel anything.

So it was surprising to me to feel that I needed to bear down.

And they were like, oh no, I mean, things are happening.

So if you want to keep pushing, you can.

So I said, okay, let's do this.

And I ended up having them help me get on my side so I could get a little more grip, push better, I guess.

But honestly, I feel like my body really took over in those moments and did a lot of the pushing for me.

I don't know.

I couldn't feel it, so I'm not sure it was, you know, a real ejection reflex or not, but I did feel a lot of that feeling like, oh, I need to bear down, I need to push, which was good because with an epidural, and if you can't feel a lot of that, it's hard to know where to direct your pushing to.

So that was very helpful.

And having really knowledgeable midwives and my doula in the room also to help me know exactly where to push and what to do, and they were very encouraging, like, oh, that's it, like, you're doing the right thing.

That was so helpful.

So they brought in a mirror.

I asked for a mirror.

I wanted to see what was going on in that region.

So I looked, and that was an experience.

Seeing myself pushing, I just could not reconcile that that was my body.

My brain would not be like, okay, yeah, that's you.

So it started to make me feel kind of queasy because I was like, it felt like I was watching someone else.

I was like, oh, nope, take it away.

I don't want that.

But it did help me.

It helped encourage me like, okay, yeah, I am pushing in the right places.

And I was like, okay, good, now move it.

So I pushed for a little bit longer, and I had wanted to catch her.

That was part of my birth plan, was I had wanted to deliver her myself.

But she ended up actually coming out so quickly that I didn't have time to do any of that.

She just sort of popped out on a push.

And I wasn't expecting, I thought it was going to be pushing for another hour or so.

So I had closed my eyes and I was pushing, and then all of a sudden, they were handing me this baby on my chest.

And I was so shocked that she was actually out and here.

I was like, oh my gosh, like, hello.

So that was just the sweetest moment, like delivering her and having her finally there.

It was so, so sweet.

You know, we were both just crying and everyone was so excited for us, and it was such a sweet time.

So what time did she end up being born?

She was born at 7, 10 p.m.

So it was two days after we started my induction.

Yeah, not quite 48 hours.

How much did she end up weighing?

She was actually really little.

She was six pounds, eight ounces.

So for a baby, you know, I had gestational diabetes and she was tiny.

She was 19 inches, so she was pretty small.

They had expected her to be around seven pounds, so it wasn't too far off.

Yeah.

And she was great.

She had one low blood sugar shortly after birth, and so did I.

And then after that, we were both good to go.

It was smooth sailing after that.

So your gestational diabetes basically just resolved itself once you had had her.

Once the placenta delivered, it was pretty much over.

They took the insulin drip out right after that.

And they had to check us both every six hours for the whole time, or at least for the first 24 hours just to make sure.

And she had one low blood sugar, and we chose to do a tiny bit of formula, like five milliliters or something, to get her blood sugar back up, and then she was good.

So after that, no more insulin, no more medication, no more nothing, you could just enjoy your newborn.

Exactly.

It was such a weird feeling, not taking my blood sugar every four hours, and not taking medication all day, every day, for both the gestational diabetes and the HG.

Right.

Was the nausea gone, too, for you then?

It was, immediately.

It's amazing.

Once you deliver that baby, all these issues just resolve.

It was so nice.

I ordered Chick-fil-A immediately afterwards.

I was like, bring me everything.

I want a sandwich.

I want fries.

I want a milkshake.

It was so good.

So then how did your breastfeeding journey go?

Breastfeeding, it went really well, but it was rocky at the beginning.

We had latch issues.

She had a very shallow latch, and it was very painful.

And I always tell people, it's not supposed to be painful.

You're not supposed to cry when you go to feed your baby.

It's not supposed to be miserable.

A little bit of discomfort is expected as you figure it out, but it is not supposed to be that toe-curling type of pain that I was having.

So we saw a lactation consultant immediately, because I was like, oh, something's not right.

And she did have a very small mouth, which was difficult for her to open wide enough.

So some of it was we just had to wait for her to get a little bit bigger.

But she also, she had a little bit of a tongue tie, but we ultimately decided not to revise it.

We did some stretches with her and some exercises to help her learn how to open her mouth wider, and that resolved it.

Oh, good.

It was good.

It took a long time for my milk to come in.

It was a little bit delayed, so it was more like day six or seven before I finally had really anything.

I mean, I would get a few drops of colostrum here and there, but nothing substantial, even for a tiny newborn stomach.

So it did take some time.

We did a little bit of donor milk.

I pumped quite a lot in those first few days to encourage my milk to come in.

And once it did, though, and we resolved her latch problems, we breastfed without issues for 15 months.

That's awesome.

That's about how long I fed my first as well.

So breastfeeding, postpartum, do you feel like your postpartum was okay for your first?

I had a lot of postpartum anxiety, which I later was actually diagnosed with postpartum OCD.

And I had a lot of...

I knew because of my line of work, I knew what to expect, and that there might be some baby blues, or I might have some...

With all the hormones shifting, I could be sad or crying, and maybe a little anxious.

But once it started to dip into the territory of really scary intrusive thoughts, I couldn't sleep.

I could not sleep because I was afraid that she would stop breathing if I wasn't watching her.

So once we got into that territory, I reached back out to my midwife, and I was like, I think I might need something to help me get through this.

I definitely need to start some therapy, but probably some medication too, because this has escalated really quickly into something that's a lot bigger than I was anticipating.

Which again, it kind of brought a lot of shame onto me because I thought, well, one, I work with postpartum families.

I should be handling this better than I am.

And then also just from like, oh, well, why can I not just pray and it magically goes away?

It's, you know, that's supposed to happen.

So I did start some anti-anxiety medications for a few months, and that did really help.

That helped me level out everything.

And I've, you know, I saw a postpartum, someone who specializes in postpartum mood disorders for counseling, that really helped.

Of course, talking to my friends about it, getting counsel from other women who have been through it, that all helped too.

But I think the first and most important thing for me was acknowledging that it wasn't my fault and that I needed to reach out for help and not to try to do it by myself because then, you know, it could have, it could have gone a lot further.

Yeah, it could have spiraled down quickly.

Yep, it does.

I don't think that's what a lot of people realize is how quickly stuff like that can come on, especially postpartum when that huge hormonal shift is happening.

It's the biggest one most of us will experience in our lifetime.

And that's no small feat.

I mean, even if you don't necessarily get diagnosed with anything, it's still a huge thing to go through.

And it can still really rock your mind and your heart.

Yeah, and then it can linger and last for a while.

Yep.

Well, I'm glad you were able to get some help.

So when do you feel like you were in a really good place again then?

How many months postpartum were you?

I'd say probably by about three months postpartum, I was in a much better place.

By then, the medicine I was taking had had time to really kick in and actually help.

And my husband and I had gotten, we had sort of a rhythm.

My daughter was a, I say this as someone who works with babies and sleep, but she was a terrible sleeper.

She, and she was just doing what babies do.

She wanted to be close to us at all times.

But we could not bed share because I was taking that anti-anxiety medication.

And so I didn't want to bed share with her because it was, had kind of a sedative effect.

And so I didn't want to do that.

But she only wanted to sleep on one of us.

Luckily, it didn't have to be me.

She would sleep on anyone.

So it didn't really matter who it was.

She just wanted to be upright and on somebody.

And we later, when she was a little bit older, we did try bed sharing and she didn't even want to.

She wanted to be fully upright, like on your chest.

I was like, okay, cool.

So you don't even want to just be near us.

It's a very specific way.

And she didn't have reflux or anything.

It was just the way she was most comfy, I guess.

So we traded off.

We took shifts in the night for about the first three months, I think.

That's really similar.

My daughter, she's our only daughter, and she was our first, but that was the only way we could get her to sleep for a long time was on our chests in bed, and we would take shifts and pass her back and forth throughout the night.

It's all about survival at that point.

And as long as we each got a three or four hour chunk of sleep each night, we were like, wow, this is great.

Right.

We did that.

And I would pump and do a bottle.

He would do a bottle once a night so I could sleep a longer chunk, which was so helpful.

Yeah, it was great.

We had that.

And once we got into our rhythm there, and then once she did finally start sleeping, not through the night, she didn't do that for a long time, but she would start sleeping longer stretches.

She would actually sleep in the pack and play out in the guest room with my husband, and I would sleep in our room and just try to get longer chunks of sleep, which was really nice.

And he would bring her to me to feed, and then he would put her back to bed.

And that worked really well for a few months.

And then we shifted later on to her in her own room.

And now she's great.

Now she's a great sleeper.

But that first year, man.

Oh, yeah.

She went through a lot of changes.

You're bringing me back to about a decade ago when we did all that.

Like everything you're saying, I'm like, uh-huh.

Yep, we did that, and we did that, and we...

The guest room, all the things.

Now we don't have a guest room because we have...

Exactly.

All the kids are taking all the rooms, but yeah.

Okay, so then about how old was your daughter when you got pregnant again?

You said it was a plan, so...

Yes, it was a plan.

So she was about two years old when I finally was like, okay, I definitely do want another one.

It took about two years for me to even be like, okay, yeah, I'm ready to do that again.

Right.

I'm ready to go through all that again because I was kind of anticipating a similar pregnancy experience, you know, same with gestational diabetes, with HG, all the things.

And I just, for the first two years, I was not ready to take that on.

I was like, I just want time with her.

My body's not ready to go through that again.

And when we decided we wanted another one, I spent about six months just really trying to build up nutrition stores in my body.

I tried to eat all the nutrients and all the good foods for you because I knew once I got pregnant, I likely would not be able to eat those anymore.

Taking a lot of supplements, things like that, just trying to really put myself in the best place I could.

So then we started trying again.

And it took about five months, I think, this time to get pregnant with our second.

And we actually had decided, we were like, okay, well, maybe we should take a break from trying.

It's not.

And I hate to even say that because people always say, oh, if you just stop trying, it'll happen.

And that's not always true.

So I hate to even say that that's what happened to us, but it did.

We had decided, okay, if I'm not pregnant this month, we're going to stop trying and just take a little break and reevaluate in a few months.

And then I took a pregnancy test at work one day because I needed to call my doctor if I was pregnant and let him know.

Over the weekend, I can't remember why.

I think I was going to take a medication or start one or something that wasn't advised during pregnancy, so I needed to know.

And I took this pregnancy test, and it just completely failed.

It didn't show anything at all, so it was just a completely invalid test.

And I was like, okay, great, now I don't know.

I was like, it looks sort of positive, but I don't know, I can't tell.

It looks like a dud.

So I had to wait until I got off work and go to Target, pick up more tests and go home.

And then by that time, we had decided, okay, let's find out together this time.

So I took the tests, and I hid them under the package.

We set our little timer, and me and my husband both went in the bathroom.

And I felt so silly, because I was like, there's no way this is going to be positive.

The one this morning was negative, and I'm just seeing things.

This is crazy.

And I lifted up the box, and we saw the tests, and it was so boldly positive.

We were like, oh, oh my gosh.

We were both in such shock that we didn't say anything for a long time.

And actually, I recorded our reactions, and it's so funny to watch it back now, because it looks like we were not excited at all.

It looks like we were like, oh, no.

But really, we were both so shocked and excited that we just were speechless.

So we were so happy, so excited.

And then kind of right away, I started feeling like, oh, no, what have I done?

Like, I just set myself up to be miserable for the next nine months.

Like, I don't know if I can do this.

And I was feeling really shameful about that, too, because, you know, one, you're supposed to be so excited when you find out you're pregnant and, you know, not at all depressed about it or scared.

And I kept quoting to myself.

I was like, you know, God has not given us a spirit of fear.

Like, I can do this.

Even if it's hard, I've done it before.

I could do it again.

It's temporary.

This is not going to be forever.

And God will be with me every step of the way, just like he was before.

Sure enough, right around five weeks, the nausea came in full force, and I pretty much was bedridden for like, I mean, weeks.

I don't know exactly how long, but a good chunk of the first trimester, I was in my bed with the curtains closed all day, all the time, you know, could barely even like watch TV or be on my phone or anything without being sick.

And thank goodness, my parents and my mother-in-law live close by, and they would come over all the time and help with my daughter.

My husband worked from home at the time, so he would take her in the morning and get her set up to play, and then he would work a little while, and I would just sort of keep an ear out and like try to go and check on her when I could and play with her when I could.

And I felt so guilty during the first trimester because I wasn't setting up sensory bins every day and going outside all the time.

And like we were watching so much screen time, so much TV.

We were, it was a lot.

It's a survival season.

Oh, it is.

And honestly, like it was, looking back, it felt like such a long time, but it really wasn't.

It was really a few weeks of, we have to get through this, and it's okay if she watches TV.

Like it'll be fine.

She's two.

We've picked good shows for her to watch.

Like I can lay on the couch.

I can talk to her.

You know, I'm still engaging with her.

It will be okay.

And then once we get out of survival mode, then we can adjust.

And that's what we did.

But it was that first trimester.

That was hard.

And even, you know, 12, 14, 16 weeks came and went, and I was still not quite bedridden, but very nauseous still.

I didn't want to leave my house because I was so afraid of throwing up in public.

I was like, I don't want to go anywhere.

I don't want to go to church.

I don't want to go anywhere.

Because if I smell the wrong thing or think about the wrong thing even, it's just going to set it off, and I won't be able to get it under control.

So we stayed home quite a bit during this pregnancy.

And I do a lot of my work virtually, so I was able to work from home.

All my sessions are pretty much virtual for the most part.

So I did that when I could, and that was the perk of working for myself, is I scheduled as much as I could handle, and that was it.

I didn't work full time like I did in my first pregnancy, which was a huge blessing.

Yeah.

Because then I could just lay on the couch.

It was very nice.

We got the gender results back, I think about eight weeks.

It was very early.

We did the blood test this time, which we didn't do with my daughter.

We did an ultrasound halfway through pregnancy.

This time we got the blood results back, and it said, it's a boy, and we were so excited.

I knew both times I had really strong feelings, like that my daughter was a girl, and this time I was having a boy.

So I wasn't too surprised, but we were so excited.

And they do a gestational diabetes screening early, if you've had it before.

So I had my first screening at 14 weeks, which I did the fresh test that time also, and I passed it, and I was like, okay, thank goodness.

In the clear, at least until 24 weeks.

And they like to test you as early as possible, so at 24 weeks instead of waiting until a little bit later.

So I did my second test, and I was just expecting.

I was like, I just know I'm gonna have it again, because I had it the first time, trying to prepare myself for it.

And I got the results back, and I had passed, and I was like, what?

This is amazing.

Oh, I was so excited, because at that point, I still really could only eat dry cereal, and fries and potatoes of most forms.

Right.

I was like, what am I supposed to eat?

If I have gestational diabetes, I can't even get down a protein shake.

What am I supposed to do?

So I was so glad I didn't have it.

That was the highlight by far.

Well, yeah.

No more poking yourself and testing your blood sugar all the time.

Oh, so nice.

It was great.

I hadn't experienced pregnancy like that before, so it was really nice just to be able to be in my third trimester and not have to do all of that all day every day and plan meticulously what I was going to eat.

And it was so nice.

So why don't you go ahead and tell us then how labor started this time?

And did your HG, did it ever lighten up the second time around?

Or was it still full force the first time?

Still pretty full force.

I got moments or days of a little bit of reprieve where I would have a few good days and then a few bad days.

It was worse at night this time around, which was different than my first.

It was way worse starting around like 10 p.m.

to like 3 or 4 a.m., which was, it's so inconvenient when you have other kids because then I would finally fall asleep and then have to get up or try to figure out how to get my mom or my mother-in-law to come over so that I could sleep.

So that was an experience.

But towards the end it did, I had several days at a time that were good and I would try to eat what I could during those days and then a few bad days.

And then the closer I got to delivery, it sort of came back.

Some of that was running out of room too.

He was quite a bit bigger than my daughter, so I ran out of room a lot faster and I was a lot bigger by the end of my pregnancy.

I never really gained much weight with either pregnancy since I was so sick, but my belly was so much bigger by the end of my second pregnancy, just because, well, he was so much bigger, so there was a lot less room.

So how far along were you this time when you went into labor?

So this time, I didn't need to be induced.

I had one or two high blood pressure readings, but they always went away.

So that wasn't a factor.

Since I didn't have gestational diabetes, I had no reason to be induced.

So we decided to just wait and see when he would come on his own.

And I was prepared to argue to be pregnant up to 42 weeks.

I was ready to advocate for myself in that.

And then, let's see, I was 39 and 3 when I started to lose my mucus plug, which didn't happen in my first pregnancy.

So I was like, oh, okay, that's something.

And I told my husband, I was like, okay, so labor could start tomorrow, or it could be a couple weeks.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I'm going to keep an eye on it.

And I woke up early, early the next morning, and I was having some bleeding, a little bit of cramping, mostly in my back.

So I didn't think much of it, but I did call my midwife and just let her know that I was having some bleeding.

And she said, okay, great, that probably means something's going on.

Keep me in the loop, you know.

And if it, if obviously she start bleeding more heavily, then just go ahead and come straight into labor and delivery.

But otherwise, maybe we'll see you later today.

And I was like, okay, great.

So I tried to go back to sleep.

And this should have been my first clue that labor was coming, is that I couldn't go back to sleep because the cramping was so annoying.

It wasn't even that it was painful.

And it wasn't coming and going like I was expecting.

It was constant.

So I didn't think it was contractions.

I was like, oh, it's not coming and going.

There's no pattern.

So this is nothing.

I even, I was texting a couple of my friends, and I was telling them what was going on.

And I was like, I'm definitely not in labor.

It'll be a few more days or weeks even.

This is nothing.

This is just the end of pregnancy.

And I've never been this pregnant before.

Right.

So I was telling my husband, I was like, yeah, it's nothing.

I'm going to try to go back to sleep and just, or at least lay down.

So he did too.

We both tried to keep sleeping until our daughter woke up.

And when she was awake, I went into the playroom with her, and I was bouncing on my ball, and she and I were watching Frozen together.

It was so nice.

Just like easing into the day.

I was painting my nails.

And I sent my husband out to get the car detailed.

I remember telling him, it's really important to me that we vacuum out the car so I can install the car seat.

So he went to do that.

And later, I'm like, okay, that was another sign that labor was like imminent because I was so fixated on the idea that the car needed to be so clean.

By the time he got back, the cramping was kind of ramping up a little bit, but it still wasn't patterned.

I was like, man, my back just really hurts.

I was still having some bleeding on and off, but a lot of pressure, but nothing's happening.

I'm not in labor.

And I was still texting my friends and telling them what was going on.

I was just convinced.

I was like, no, not going into labor today.

I'm going to be pregnant for a lot more time.

I went ahead and set up my, I made these birth affirmation cards.

I set them up, and I made our formal living room, our nice area, the kid toy free zone, into my labor area, hung them up, got out the twinkle lights and set everything up.

And I was like, just in case I go into labor tonight, I'll have it already set up.

So I did that.

And I was listening to, I listened to a lot of my worship playlist.

I did listen to a couple of the tracks from Christian Hypnobirthing, the scriptures track I really liked.

You know, I didn't listen to all of them, but I really liked the scriptures track that was really comforting for me to hear.

So I listened to that a lot.

My labor playlist just played over and over and over.

And I know now that I was in early labor, but then I was truly in denial.

I was like, no, nothing's happening.

So sometime around about 1130 maybe, I started to notice like, oh, these cramps are sort of coming and going now, like they're discernible.

I was like, maybe I should time them just for fun, just to see where we're at.

And I timed them for a little bit, and they were four minutes apart.

And I was like, huh, that's interesting.

They still weren't incredibly painful.

It was just I noticed them, but it wasn't, there was no pain.

So I timed them for a while, and I started timing again a little bit later, and they had moved to three minutes apart.

I was like, okay, well, maybe I should let my parents know that they should come pick up my daughter, but they probably have plenty of time.

And I called my mom, and we talked for a little bit, and I told her like, oh yeah, you guys should clear your schedule.

Maybe head over here later.

I'll keep you in the loop.

Luckily, she didn't listen to me, and they started heading over immediately.

My mom just, my mom knew well before I did that I was already in labor.

And then about 20 minutes after that, I looked at my text messages to see the timing of it.

So about 20 minutes later, I had texted her and I was like, okay, they're two minutes apart and getting stronger, like you guys should go ahead and get here.

Luckily, they were already on their way.

And I went to go get in the shower.

And while I was in the shower, things intensified like quite a bit to the point where I needed my husband to do counter pressure and be with me through each contraction.

And I was like, okay, this is probably labor.

So I got out of the shower.

And I remember going in my room, getting dressed to go to the hospital.

And I took one last picture, one last bump picture.

And the time stamp on that is like 1.40, 1.35, something like that.

So my parents arrived.

We quickly threw everything in the car.

My husband would have to come back every two minutes to help me get through a contraction and then load something in the car and then come back.

And finally, we got in the car.

And I still, even at that point, was not convinced that I was in labor.

I thought, you know, this is early labor.

I'm gonna get to the hospital and they're gonna send me home or tell me I'm, you know, four centimeters or something like that.

So we got in the car, and the car ride, it's only, we live about five minutes from this hospital, but it was the worst five minutes of my life.

It was, the contractions decided then to ramp up and just be as uncomfortable as possible.

And I felt so much pressure.

I was like, ah, okay.

I'm definitely in labor.

I just don't know how far along I am, but this is happening really fast now.

We got to the hospital, and my husband was like, should I just park?

And I was like, nope, pull up to the door.

Pull up to the door, I gotta get out.

So we both got out.

We left the car in the, you know, emergency zone.

And, you know, we walked up to Labor and Delivery, and I had a contraction in the hallway, and the security guard was, he saw that happen, and he just buzzed us right on through.

He was like, all right, I know where you're going.

Like, go ahead, you don't need to sign in or anything.

And, you know, for all they knew, I wasn't even a patient there, I just showed up.

And the nurse at Triage, I don't think she believed me.

She was not as convinced that I was in labor, because she kept asking me all these questions.

She was, I had already filled out all the paperwork.

I don't know why she was asking me everything again.

And I just could not answer her, and my husband was having to answer for me.

She tried to make me get on the scale and do all these things, and I was like, no, like, if you don't get me in a room, we're having a baby right here.

So she finally put me in a room, and she told me, she said, okay, I'm going to need you to, you know, take your clothes off, put this gown on, lay on the bed, and I'm going to monitor you for 20 minutes.

And I looked at her, and I was so nice, but I was like, respectfully, like, that is not going to happen.

I cannot lay down.

I can only stand right here.

That's the only thing I can do.

And I was very loud, which is, it's interesting to me how vocal I was during this labor, because in my labor with my daughter, I was not at all.

Even before I got an epidural, I was not vocal.

I didn't do a lot of moaning or anything.

And so this time was totally different.

I was very primal, very...

It was a little animalistic.

It definitely sounded a little farm animal giving birth to me.

And I started to feel like a ton of pressure, and it was like my body was just pushing down.

My uterus was just pushing down with all its might.

And I was like, okay, if I'm not in labor, then I definitely need an epidural ASAP, because this is crazy.

And I needed Kyle.

He was putting all of his body weight into my back at every contraction.

And I was like, push harder.

He was like, I am.

And I would lean on the wall and put all my weight into the wall.

So counter pressure was really the only thing that helped me cope with these contractions.

I had never really had real contractions before, so I didn't know what to expect.

I didn't know what they were going to feel like.

So to me, I was like, I was totally unclear if these were transition contractions.

I wasn't sure.

But so we're standing in the triage room, and the nurse finally says, okay, I'm going to call a midwife then.

I said, thank you.

And I had several contractions back to back to back.

There was no break at all in between them.

And I know now that I was in transition, but then I was just mind blown, like why am I not getting a break?

And the midwife came in and I kept apologizing to her because I was like, I'm sorry, I know you need to check me, but I can't right now.

And she was so wonderful.

That first midwife was so great.

She was like, no, you're fine.

And I heard her whisper to the triage nurse.

She was like, get me some gloves.

Those sounds that she's making, she's pushing.

And I remember thinking, no, I'm not.

She's going to be so disappointed when she checks me, and I'm only four centimeters.

And I'm just a baby.

Like, I just could not fathom that this was happening.

So I finally managed to...

At some point, I must have taken most of my clothes off because I was standing there in only my bra.

So I know that at some point, I did take everything else off.

Still just in the triage room.

Oh, yeah, just in triage.

And she checked me, and I was sort of halfway laying on the bed, halfway standing up.

And she was like, oh, yeah, whatever.

I can check you however you want to be.

And she checked me, and she said, yep, you're complete.

And I said, excuse me?

What?

And I heard my husband, he said, wait, so how many centimeters is that?

She was like, oh, 10.

Yeah, 10.

He was like, oh, oh, okay.

Should I move the car?

And she was like, no, don't move the car.

You'll miss it.

And I heard them having this conversation, but I just could not wrap my mind around that that was me they were talking about.

Like, this is happening.

So I said, okay, well, are we having a baby right here?

And they were like, no, we're actually going to move right down the hall to your labor room.

And I was like, okay.

But I cannot sit in that wheelchair.

They brought a wheelchair.

And I was like, there's no way I'm sitting in that wheelchair.

So I said, I'll walk.

And then I walked to about the door of the room, and I was like, nope, I can't do that either.

So I ended up getting in the wheelchair on my hands and knees, and I was sort of like surfing on the wheelchair, I guess.

And they did wrap a hospital gown around me, but I truly did not care.

I was just going to go from triage to labor, totally naked, did not care at all, barely even noticed that people were around.

And they pushed me into the labor room.

I got into the labor room, and I remember one nurse, I had wonderful midwives and wonderful nurses, except for there was one nurse that was just truly awful.

And she said, is that the best y'all could do?

And I remember thinking like, do you think I wanted to do this?

Do you think I wanted to be surfing a wheelchair into labor and delivery right now from triage?

Didn't plan for that.

But I had another contraction right at that moment, so luckily I couldn't say anything.

But that contraction, there was an immense amount of pressure.

I thought I still wasn't really having much pain, but the pressure was so intense that I thought my body is going to just pop right now.

Like, I can't take it anymore.

And then, sure enough, my water broke.

And I sort of felt it pop, and then there was just water everywhere.

And in my labor with my daughter, I'm not even sure that I mentioned this part, but my water never broke.

They broke my water at some point towards the end of my labor just to try and speed things up.

So I had no idea what it was supposed to feel like.

And it was, it surprised me so much, I literally had forgotten that was gonna happen.

I was so surprised by the feeling of it that I remember yelling out, oh, my water broke.

And all the midwives were like, oh, that's great, that's good news.

You're in the right place for that to happen.

And I remember someone just throwing away my socks because it was all over my socks and everything.

And after it broke, I noticed I could see that there was meconium in the water.

So I knew that they were going to call in, you know, the NICU team, and they called the OB that was on call to come in.

So all of a sudden, there were quite a few more people in the room, and they were all asking, like, oh, you know, when is this going to happen?

Whatever.

And the midwife was like, oh, yeah, I mean, the baby's being born now.

Like, she's pushing now.

And I still could not wrap my mind around that.

I was like, I am?

Like, what?

And I remember getting up on the bed, and I was still hands and knees.

I got up on the bed and sort of hung over the top of it.

Mm-hmm.

And I was just having to reconcile in myself, like, okay, this is, like, I was preparing for an unmedicated birth, but I'm not sure I actually believed I could do it until I was in that moment, and all of a sudden, that was my only option.

And I had a moment of pure panic.

I looked for my husband and, like, found him, and I was like, I cannot do this.

Like, there's absolutely no way I'm about to push a baby out.

I will hold him in until they can get an epidural in here.

I will give myself a C-section at this point just to avoid pushing him out.

Like, all kinds of irrational thoughts were going through my mind at that point.

So I was like, I just, like, there's no way.

And he looked at me and he was like, you're already doing it.

And I was like, okay, yeah, you're right.

Like, I have to do it.

I mean, it's happening.

So I was trying to push in that position, and I just couldn't get enough leverage to really push.

So I ended up flipping over onto my side again, just like how I was with my daughter, kind of on my back, kind of on my side, which did surprise me.

I wasn't expecting to want to push on my back, but I did.

That's what felt best to me.

And that's how I was able to get the most control over what I was doing.

And my body did take over at that point and was pushing for me.

But I was letting so much fear come into my mind that I was holding back, and I was trying to physically hold him in my body.

And I could hear the midwife talking about that with one of the nurses.

She was like, you know, that's like she's holding him in.

And I remember hearing that, and I was like, okay, yeah, she's right.

I've got to participate with this birth.

I have to get involved.

So I did, and I started pushing, and I felt the ring of fire, which I didn't feel the first time, obviously, since I had an epidural.

I felt it, and I was like, okay, this is a good thing.

It means he's coming out.

This is happening.

But man, that is an intense feeling.

And I remember her asking me, she said, how big was your daughter?

I said she was 6'8, or Kyle answered, actually.

She was 6'8, and she was like, oh, this baby is quite a bit bigger than that.

And I was like, don't say that right now.

Don't tell me that while his head is coming out.

So I was still pushing, still pushing.

And I say pushing, but I really wasn't doing a whole lot.

I was just honestly relaxing into what my body was already doing.

I didn't have to do much pushing at all.

My body was doing the bearing down for me, but I had to consciously relax to let it happen and stop trying to hold him in.

So I was concentrating really hard on breathing, and I was remembering my birth affirmations and the scriptures that I had printed out that I didn't get to bring with me because it all happened so fast.

I brought nothing with me.

We didn't bring anything in from the car, like nothing.

All the things I brought for labor comfort were in the car.

I had brought a fan and the twinkle lights and my cards, which I actually think I left at home.

I don't even think I brought those.

And my headphones and all these things I was going to use during labor.

I didn't use anything.

They didn't even come in from the car.

And I remember remembering one of my birth affirmations was the only way out is through.

And I hung on to that so tightly because I was like, okay, I can get through this, but I'm going to have to do it.

And I remember I just like took a big breath and relaxed and pushed one time and his head came out.

And the feeling of relief that I felt once his head was out was one of the best moments of my life.

That intense pressure feeling was gone.

And the rest of his body came out, but I didn't even feel that.

I was like, no, that was a piece of cake compared to his head.

And he came out pretty quickly, and I did reach down and pull him up.

This time I kept my eyes open and I could see him coming out.

And my husband too, when his head was coming out, my husband was so encouraging, and I squeezed his hand so hard.

I'm not sure how I didn't break bones in it or something.

But I remember him saying to me, like, I can see his head.

And that was really the motivation I needed.

I was like, okay, if his head is that far out, I can do this.

And then he was on my chest, and I was surprised that he was quite a bit bigger than my daughter.

He was eight pounds, four ounces, and 21 inches long, and he was born at 2:34 p.m.

We arrived at the hospital and checked in at 1.55.

Wow.

That was very fast.

That was an intense hour or half hour.

I mean, I know you said you took your last bump pick at 1.35.

Yeah, right before we got in the car to go to the hospital.

It's so funny to see that picture now, and knowing that I was in labor, but I was just in such denial.

Right.

I'm sitting over here just proud of you for doing that.

Like, I know you planned an unmedicated labor, but it's different when it goes that quickly.

Like, the intensity of it just really ramps up.

A lot.

Because I was expecting to get to the hospital and get in the bath or the shower and do all these things and have all these comfort measures.

Because one of the things I told my husband is I was like, I don't want to have a baby at home accidentally and then still have to go to the hospital.

Or, and I also don't want to show up to the hospital pushing, is what I said.

And that is, of course, what ended up happening.

And it was fine.

And honestly, I wouldn't change anything about my experience because I think if I had had more time, I probably would have, I wouldn't have believed in myself enough, and I would have gone ahead and gotten an epidural and just, which probably would have been fine, and it would have been a perfectly beautiful experience, just like my first, but that wasn't what I had wanted this time.

So I did end up getting exactly what I wanted, if just a little bit faster than I wanted it.

So then since he was a little bit bigger and a smidge further along, what did breastfeeding start off better with him?

It did.

We had actually a really similar experience with him.

So initially, his latch was great, but the first 24 to 48 hours, his latch was wonderful.

And then somehow after the first couple of days, all of a sudden he started doing very shallow latch again, and I had a lot of pain with feeding and bleeding and bruising and all the things you don't want on your nipples.

And so I saw lactation immediately again.

I was like, okay, it's happening again.

What do I do?

And they helped me.

It's very hard to correct a latch on yourself.

But when I was looking at him, I was like, I can tell that it's not good, but I don't know what to do to fix it because I can't look at myself while I'm feeding.

So it was really helpful to have someone else see what he was doing and help me position him and position my arms and hold him a different way, help me get on a nursing and pumping schedule to try and encourage my milk to come in, all the things.

We love our lactation consultant.

She's the best.

And within, it was about a week, I think, before my milk really fully came in and I was able to stop pumping, and everything was much better from that point.

He still has some oral ties, and we're actually working with an OT to kind of help loosen up his mouth.

But he's feeding fine now.

He's gaining plenty of weight.

I'm not in pain anymore.

So we're working with it mostly just for oral function later in life.

He does a lot of mouth breathing, which we want to stop.

But otherwise, he's doing great.

Wonderful.

And you don't have to share this if you don't want to, but can I ask what their names are?

Oh, yes.

My daughter's name is Nora.

And her name is Nora Dove.

And we didn't choose her name before she was born.

We knew her middle name would be Dove, but we did not choose her first name until after she was born.

We had a couple that we were going back and forth.

But she was two days old, and we were about to leave the hospital before we finally chose her first name.

And then my son's name is Shepherd James.

And we knew his name really early on in my pregnancy.

We were sitting in church, actually, and my husband runs Sound a lot for church on Sundays, so we weren't sitting together.

And our pastor had quoted, I don't even remember what scripture now, but he mentioned Shepard's.

And it's possible that it was around Christmastime, something like that.

But I remember thinking, oh, Shepard, I love that name.

And then right as I was texting my husband, I was like, Shepard Smith?

And he texted me right at that same moment and was like, what if we named him Shepard?

And so I was like, oh, okay, well, then obviously that's his name.

We both thought that, and we texted each other at the same time.

And then James is a family name, so that was always going to be his middle name.

Did you end up having any postpartum anxiety with him?

I have a little bit, but not nearly to the extent I did with my daughter.

I think this time we were more prepared of one, what to expect, and we had our parenting roles down.

We knew what we would do.

We had a rhythm going, and we knew to watch out for it too.

That and he's sleeping a lot more than she did.

So that is a game changer when we're getting several hours of sleep per night.

That's hugely helpful.

How old is he?

He is nine weeks old today.

Wow.

Yeah.

If he's still in weeks, then yes, that's quite new.

Exactly.

I'm not ready to turn into months yet.

Yeah.

Because we are fairly confident this is our last, but I feel like a lot of people say that.

I've listened to your stories too, and I know that's something that you guys said too.

Let's hold that loosely.

Yeah, hold that with an open hand.

So throughout your stories, I heard you talk about feeling shame like multiple times in different aspects, like through pregnancy, through childbirth, through postpartum.

I didn't want to interrupt you at the time, but in my head, I'm like, that is just such an attack of the enemy.

That's just the enemy getting in your head and messing with you and telling you lies.

So I just wanted to say that and just ask if you ever recognized that throughout your process, and were you able to combat that with God's truth?

Yes.

Yeah, actually, and I feel like I recognized it pretty early on, like shame doesn't come from God.

So the shame that I'm feeling is coming from somewhere either, you know, in me, like whether I have ideas around something that I feel like I should be doing better at or it's an attack from the enemy or a little bit of both.

So something I did early on was I was very open with my husband and a couple of like really trusted friends, telling them what I was feeling and letting them like encourage me and pray for me.

I tried to be really, really open with my husband especially, you know, especially when I was like extra emotional or, you know, I would get really irritable and I was like, I'm sorry, like that's not, I'm not angry at you.

I'm just really overwhelmed and feeling a lot of feelings.

So, but something I did for just me myself, I created my worship playlist really early in pregnancy that I knew I was going to use during labor, but I also used it a lot during pregnancy when I was feeling either shame or overwhelm or fear or any of those things that are not of God.

I would turn on that playlist and just listen to it either in the car or at home or go for a walk and listen to it and just let myself feel the feelings and let God, you know, tell me His truth.

I did listen to the Christian Hypnobirthing scripture track a lot.

That was the one that was really helpful for me was that track in particular.

I didn't have time to listen to it during labor, but it did help during pregnancy.

Actually, I didn't have time to listen to anything during labor, but not the second time around anyway.

But I did a lot of that.

Well, that's wonderful.

I'm so glad.

Do you feel like through these two experiences, you know, through pregnancy and childbirth, postpartum, all of it for both of them, do you feel like there was any major lesson that God was trying to teach you or anything that you really feel like you just learned supernaturally through the Lord through that time?

Yes.

So I think the biggest thing, there was a lot of learning that I can't necessarily control everything that happens to me and how I experience it, but I can control how I respond to it in my heart, in my mind, in my spirit.

The biggest thing was fear, because I was so fearful of things happening.

I mean, even my postpartum anxiety was, of course, all related to fear.

It was all focused on something bad happening to either me or my baby or my family.

And I had to really lean on the Lord, and possibly for one of the first times in my life actually lean on the Lord to get through fear.

And it wasn't something I could do just through positive thinking or self-care, going for a walk or any of those things.

And those things all helped, of course.

They all helped me get into a better headspace, but they weren't going to attack the root of it, which was fear.

So my biggest takeaway was that when I start to go into fear, recognizing that that is the enemy attacking me and turning to the Lord through prayer or I did a lot of journaling, and again, just getting into worship and focusing on being with Him and being friends with God and letting Him encourage me and not just depend on Him for like, oh, I want this type of XYZ birth or pregnancy or whatever, and giving Him my list of things I wanted, which I did also do, because of course that's important to Him too, is what I want and what's important to me.

But spending a lot of time hearing Him talk to me about how He feels about me and my family and my birth experience and really focusing in on like, I have the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit lives in me.

So I can always have more peace.

If I don't feel at peace, if I don't feel like I have self-control, there's always more because it never runs dry.

And there's never a point where God's like, okay, well, I've given you all the peace I can give you.

Like, you're on your own now.

So a lot of that was, you know, surrendering to the process of pregnancy and birth, which is not always comfortable and fun and glamorous, but letting Him be there with me in those moments where I felt the lowest I have ever felt.

Yes.

I can relate so much to you and what you've been through.

Is there any advice you give to moms out there, dads out there, expecting couples, whether it's their first or maybe subsequent child?

Yes.

So my biggest advice is, and of course, this is also what I do for a living, but is to plan for the postpartum period because it's easy to get so focused on, like, planning for pregnancy and planning for birth, which are so important.

Plan for your birth, of course, because you need to know what you're going into.

But also plan for postpartum.

Plan for, you know, what will you do when you're sleep deprived?

How are you guys gonna tackle that?

What are you gonna do when no one wants to cook?

And when, like, you know, if postpartum depression or anxiety come, what will you do?

What are some signs to look out for?

You know, how do you want your husband or your support people, how do you want them to approach that with you?

You know, even in terms of breastfeeding, have someone lined up to help you with breastfeeding.

You know, find the lactation consultants in your area that take your insurance, things like that.

Having some resources on hand before you need them can make all the difference in your postpartum time, because then you don't have to scramble to find something.

And of course, you can't prepare for everything, but just having some of those conversations already started and some of those things like, you know, what are we going to do if the baby is awake all night, every night?

How am I going to cope with that?

And having a plan with your partner for how to tackle that, how to trade shifts or, you know, whatever it is that you guys are going to do.

I think that's wonderful advice.

I think a lot of people spend a lot of their time, you know, making the perfect registry and designing the perfect nursery and picking out all the best clothes and like getting all the cute stuff and the aesthetics ready.

And then it's like they're in the middle of postpartum and they're not sleeping and they're not eating and their nipples are bleeding and their baby's crying and they're like bleeding everywhere.

And they're like, what is this life?

It's all things.

They're like, oh, I wasn't expecting that.

Right, right.

Well, thank you so much again for coming on, Liz.

I really, really appreciate it.

I appreciate your stories and your authenticity and your advice and transparency, just everything that you've shared with us today.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks again for joining us today.

You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

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