041 - The Freedom That Comes With Obedience (with Sarah Stricker)

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SHOW NOTES:

Not everybody has a bad induction experience, or a bad hospital experience. Especially if they don’t know anything different. However, what do you choose for your second birth after learning some things about inductions and routine hospital procedures and the effects they can have on you and your baby? What changes would you make? What about when God is clearly speaking to you about it all? Find out what Sarah and her husband Matt decided to do with each of their daughters’ births! 

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories, Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hello, everybody, happy day, happy Monday, happy whatever day it is that you are listening to this.

I am excited.

This week is, for me, what feels like the first week of summer because my friend Taylor and I are starting our annual summer Let's Dance group.

Every summer for the last, gosh, seven years, I think, yeah, because it was right after my right after my second Milo was born.

We have led a dance group together in the summer time.

So we meet once a week, and this summer, it's on Tuesday nights, and we meet at our church just because it's a great place.

We used to do it through our church, but now it's just kind of our own group, and we just meet at our church.

But it's just women, and now we have incorporated our girls because we each have a daughter, and all the girls come together, and we just have such a fun time.

We do a little warm up together, get our muscles moving and stretch, and then we learn a dance.

So either Taylor or I will choreograph a dance, and we'll teach it for the night.

And that's it.

It was so fun, and we just learn a dance, and we dance to the music, and we usually record it at the end, and I always post the recording on my Instagram, which is not my Surrendered Birth Services Instagram, but my Kayla Heater Instagram.

And we just have so much fun with it.

It is nothing professional and nothing perfect by any means.

It's just a bunch of girls coming together to have some fun and move around.

So if you want to join us and you are a female and you are local-ish, please come and join us.

We are dancing every Tuesday night in June and July at 630 p.m.

at Definition Church in Greensboro.

So come and join us.

Come and get your groove on.

That is where we will be.

Now, here's something that would be super, super, super helpful for this podcast, for other women out there, other parents out there, other future parents out there to be able to hear this podcast would be if you left a review for this show.

I don't know how to convince people to leave a review for a show.

And maybe I'm just different because I have left a review for all of my favorite podcasts that I listen to.

And I don't know if that's weird.

I guess maybe I'm in the super minority there or I'm the oddball out, but I have.

I've left a review for the Thousand Hours Outside podcast and for this Birthworker podcast that I listen to and for the Happy Home Birth podcast that I listen to.

I just, I don't know.

I leave reviews, but what could I do?

Someone messaged me and tell me, how do I get somebody to leave a review of this show?

Because when you leave a review, hopefully a good one, it gets this show in front of more people.

It pops up as a suggested show for them to listen to based on what they've listened to.

So I would love for this to continue to grow organically.

And I can't do it by myself.

I need your help.

So if you love this show and you haven't left a review yet, please go ahead and do that.

That would mean so much to me and my husband, because he is the other half of this show for sure.

Love you, babe.

All right, let's get into this week's episode.

Not everybody has a bad induction experience or a bad hospital experience, especially if they don't know anything different.

However, what do you choose for your second birth after learning some things about inductions and routine hospital procedures and the effects they can have on you and your baby?

What changes would you make?

Find out what Sarah and her husband Matt decided to do with each of their daughter's births.

Welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater.

And today, I have a special friend with me.

I'm going to let her introduce herself.

And why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are in your life, so we can get to know you a little bit.

Yeah, I'm Sarah Stricker.

I have two girls, and I'm married to Matthew.

I have had a business, which that's like part of the story, so I'll explain a little bit more about that later.

And yeah, I've listened.

I just was telling you, I've listened to every episode, so I'm happy to be here.

Well, that's always so exciting to me, because I really don't have a gauge for who's listening or not, or if they listen all the time, or just one episode.

So that always warms my heart to hear that.

I have conversations with another Kayla, not the Kayla that's been on the podcast, who, you know, Kayla's have more pain.

Oh, yeah, more HD, more nausea.

Not that Kayla, but another Kayla will be like, you know, have you heard the episode where she talks about blah, blah, blah, blah?

I'll be like, no, not yet.

That's literally this week's episode.

Don't ruin it.

You have a podcasting buddy.

Yeah.

I love that.

And I know what Kayla you're talking about.

So hi, Kayla.

And you don't know this, but there's another Kayla who by the time this airs, her episode would have already aired.

So now we've got like three or four Kayla's in the mix.

Yep.

All spelled differently.

Oh, no.

One of them spelled the same, but anyways.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm Sarah with an H.

Sarah with an H.

So, Sarah.

Yes.

Let's talk about you and your husband getting pregnant for the first time.

Yes.

So, the very first time that we got pregnant, I had been on like whatever pill, I couldn't even tell you what it's called.

I was on a pill version of birth control, and we had decided, this just shows you like how much I knew about nothing back then.

I couldn't even tell you why we decided to stop.

We decided to stop with that version of birth control because there was something in it we didn't like.

That's all I remember.

I think it was linked to some sort of cancer.

I mean, as you know, as probably everything is.

But anyways, this is Gabrielle that you're hearing.

Gabrielle is here with us today.

So we stopped birth control, and it wasn't terribly long before I got pregnant.

And I remember thinking back then, like I had friends or more like acquaintances who had miscarried or who had lost children very early.

And I had the thought of like, whoa, what if that happens to me?

And I was like, oh, that's ridiculous.

That's not gonna happen.

Like just because I have heard that it happens, like I don't need to be afraid of that.

And that's true, I don't need to be afraid of that.

But I did end up losing that first baby, and we went to a early ultrasound.

I ended up meeting with who would be my OB-GYN, but I hadn't met her before.

That was the first time I had ever met her.

And she was the one who did the ultrasound, because the ultrasound tech had had an emergency in the family and had to go home.

So my OB-GYN, who I later used and loved, was the one who said, hey, this isn't my normal job.

I want you to go to the emergency room.

I'm not being able to find a heartbeat.

Okay, we're going to go get a second opinion, and we're like preparing ourselves for one way or the other.

How many weeks were you?

10 weeks, I think.

And then, and maybe the baby had died at like eight weeks, something like that.

So we went to the emergency room.

We were pretty steady.

Oh, I guess before that, even in terms of like, just God being with us the whole time, she said to us, mind you, we had never met her.

This was the first, you know, interaction with her.

She literally looked at us and was like, you guys know God, don't you?

Like, I've never had this conversation with a couple this calm before.

And we were like, oh, well, yes.

And so anyways, so we went to the emergency room.

They confirmed it.

We're leaving the emergency room.

And that was when it was like, okay, it's hitting us.

One of my husband's best friends was staying with us at our house at the time, just for a visit.

And I was like, I don't know how this is gonna go.

Like, you know, we've got a visitor at home and I'm like, you know, crying.

And you know, anyways, so we went home.

I sat on my bed.

I completely acted like he wasn't there in our like smaller house where you could hear literally everything.

And I like called my parents.

I called some of my best friends.

And like, I just needed to, I very much, like I never keep my pregnancies secret for long at all.

I'm like, whatever happens, I need people to be in it with me.

Like, I want you to celebrate with me.

I want you to know if I'm not doing well.

So I was calling everyone, kind of updating them, crying, just, you know, glued myself to the bed with my phone, didn't really leave, kind of fell asleep.

Like, what do I do now?

And I ended up waking up in the middle of the night.

And I was like, I need to go upstairs.

I need to spend time with God.

I need to go to the metaphorical mountain.

And so I started to get up, and I rolled over to Matthew, and I was like, this is what I'm doing.

Come with me or don't.

And so he came with me, and we went upstairs, and we just prayed and worshiped for a little while.

And it was very much like, that was the most, the Lord is with those who grieve moment that I've had.

And I have it, like again, every time since then, I've not lost another child, but many, many of my friends and my family have experienced loss in this way.

Some of them multiple times over.

And I always go back to, like if you don't have a relationship with God, how do you do, like how do you go through that?

And where do you end up on the other side?

Like, and I know the Lord can use that to bring people closer to Him.

But in, for my experience, I just thought, I don't think I could do that without leaning on Him.

But so that baby, we didn't know gender, of course, but we named her Abigail, because it means the Father's joy.

And she gets to be with Him.

So after Abigail, it was probably only two months before I got pregnant with our daughter, Alani.

Her name means messenger of grace.

And her pregnancy was pretty normal in the sense that I was exhausted, like more tired than I've ever been in my life, the first trimester.

And I was still working then.

So I was working in an office even, not at home.

I was still working, but I didn't have other kids running around at home.

So I was going to bed at like seven.

I've been there.

And was totally able to, and that was great.

But besides that, honestly, her pregnancy was really easy.

I did have a subchorionic hemorrhage, which was pretty scary having miscarried before.

I remember you texting me on your way to the ER.

Oh, I don't even remember that.

I remember you texting me and you were like, hey, I'm bleeding, we're going to the ER, can you please start praying?

And weren't you like 14 weeks or something like that?

I think I was 12.

Okay, 12.

I think I was just around the transition between first and second.

Yep, and God really blessed me too with a friend, like my work bestie at the time.

She had been around when I had the miscarriage, and she was literally the only one left in the office whenever I stood up and realized that I was bleeding.

Like, that's such a simple thing, but I really felt like that it was just a blessing from God because I was like, I have to walk across.

I was working at the world's largest furniture store.

And I was like, I have to walk across this whole stinking building, and I'm like wearing khakis.

And I don't know if I'm losing this baby or not.

And so like, not only do I not want to be embarrassed by that, but also like, I don't want people to stop and ask me what's going on, you know?

And so she like helped me, you know, she like casually walked behind me and like would make sure, I think I wrapped a sweater around my waist or whatever.

And we walked across, but she was just like really looking out for me.

Yeah.

And Matthew got there and we went to the hospital.

And, you know, we were just kind of at that point, like, well, there's nothing we can do except for just pray and trust that the Lord knows what he's doing.

And so we were there for a good, a good while, but they did find the heartbeat.

And so, and we were, and they told us what it was, and they told us that it was pretty common and that we were basically good to go.

By the time I even got to the hospital, my bleeding had slowed down.

And so that was scary, but knowing what it was...

Can you explain what it was for people?

Kind of.

Basically, there is a blood clot underneath my placenta that escaped.

And so, like in my super medical, technical knowledge, I'm like basically a blood clot got like smooshed out from underneath my placenta.

And that's what was causing the bleeding.

Am I right?

Yeah, that's great.

So it's not a problem you were going to continuously have.

It was like a one-time issue.

Yeah, and they were able in the ultrasound to see that my placenta was still attached to the wall.

It didn't look like I was going to have any issues with it coming off, whatever.

So I went home.

I wasn't on bed rest or anything.

I was still good to go.

They said I shouldn't be worried about it.

And that was the most eventful thing of the pregnancy.

Of the whole pregnancy.

Everything else was pretty tame.

Like, I wasn't super nauseous.

I don't...

I've asked Matthew if he feels like I have any specific cravings whenever I'm pregnant, and he says, well, candy.

And I'm like, yeah, but I crave candy all the time.

So that's not really anything new.

Yeah, not pregnancy related.

And so I'm hesitant to say that I did any...

Like, I did a hospital birth class, labor and delivery class.

We did it in, like, the weekend versus doing multiple weeks for however...

Six weeks or however many.

Uh-huh.

And that did tell me more than I already knew.

It did change my mind on...

Well, yeah, it did change my mind on some things.

Before that, I was very much so like, why would you not get an epidural?

Like, pain or not pain?

What's the dilemma?

What's the holdup here?

But after that class, I was like, okay, I could see why you might not.

I could see, I'm willing to attempt to not get an epidural.

But then Aulani's, she was induced at 41 and three days.

Why was she induced?

That's the question.

She was induced because she was, quote unquote, late.

Okay, so no, like, medical health issue.

No.

I do have group B strep.

For Aulani and for Gabrielle, I've been positive.

But that doesn't affect any.

And the doctors are always concerned that my being overweight would affect it.

Would affect what?

Would mean that my babies are going to be huge babies.

But you know, huge babies, and my babies are not huge babies.

So anyways, so, but I asked Matthew not too long ago, why did I have to be induced with Aulani?

Do you remember what they said?

And for a little bit, we were like, we kind of just looked at each other like, I don't really remember, except for that it's your chances of having complications go up, the longer you've got the baby inside of you.

And anyways, so at the time that was like a, okay, that's something good to take into consideration.

And to be totally fair about the whole situation, even though Aulani was induced, and I ended up getting an epidural, I really had a positive experience.

I very much would have told you like, yeah, we had a great birth, like worked out fine, worked out great.

We didn't really have any other complications.

So tell us the story.

Like what did it look like?

When did you go in for your, I mean, you said 41 and three, but did you go in at night or in the morning?

Let's see.

So we went in at midnight.

We were scheduled to go in at midnight.

It was very lovely to be just sitting in the waiting room.

Just, I mean, you're uncomfortable because you're very pregnant, but like there was another mom there who was obviously in labor.

And so she, like in my mind, she's uncomfortable.

I'm just chilling.

Yeah.

Like, don't worry.

Take your time.

No, you know, whatever.

So we finally get back to the room.

My whole experience with that one, like I couldn't tell you what time things happened until I had Gabrielle, which was only three months ago.

I couldn't even remember how much Awani weighed at the time.

Like, the specifics of it, I couldn't remember.

What's funny was all the things I remember were me being what I felt like was unexpected in labor.

So I know that labor started at, or excuse me, I know we got to the hospital at midnight.

And then Awani was born shortly before 9 p.m.

The next day.

Well, I guess, the same day.

Yes.

So, yeah.

So almost 24 hours, not quite.

Right.

But you've got to include in that, like we were waiting in the waiting room for some of that time.

We were like being moved to the labor and delivery room.

I mean, they told us to sleep and we were like...

Did they put Cytotec in or Servidel before you were sleeping?

Yes.

Cytotec, I believe.

That's usually the first step in a nighttime induction.

And then I want to say we did the Foley bulb too.

After the Cytotec, yeah.

And then we really just gradually moved Pitocin up and up and up and up.

And I remember because I was GBS positive...

You were on antibiotics.

I was on antibiotics, but I thought when they hung it up beside me that it was some kind of pain meds.

And so I told Matthew at some point, I was like, I don't know what kind of pain meds they put me on, but I really don't think they're working.

And he was like, you're not on any pain meds.

And I was like, yeah, I'm looking right at them.

And he was like, those are your antibiotics.

And I was like, oh, in that case, I'm doing great.

In that case, I'm doing a great job.

Yeah, just so you know.

And so, and because it was, you know, because it was pitocin labor, I had never experienced any other labor.

So I was like, you know, okay, this is, even after having her, I was like, oh, that wasn't so terrible.

Like, I could do this again.

But when did you get the epidural?

So I got the epidural.

I couldn't tell you in technical terms.

I got the epidural at the point when you probably would have had to bend how many inches, eight inches, six inches in front of my face for me to recognize, like, oh, you're talking to me.

I got the epidural at that point because my, so Matthew was in the room with me and so was my mom.

This was pre-COVID.

And both of them were like, if you don't get the epidural, like, you know, there's the cutoff of, like, you've got to be able to be still enough to get the epidural, right?

You're already looking like you're in so much pain that if you don't get it now, you're not gonna get it.

So, like, this is the point.

And I remember sitting there like, well, I don't really know.

Like, I don't want to not have the option.

And I don't, and Matthew was looking at me and going, mm-mm.

Like, I think you should get it.

And that was kind of the permission that my brain needed to be like, all right, let's do it.

So I did it.

Apparently, I had a really great epidural, even on both sides.

Yeah.

You know.

Worked like it was supposed to.

Worked like it was supposed to.

The midwife who delivered Alani walked in, and I looked at her and said, oh, did we meet at Costco?

And she was like, what are you talking about?

Actually, she just said, oh, she's got a good epidural.

And I realized, actually, I had met her.

She was the very same midwife who had delivered the news of your subchorionic hemorrhage, this is what's happening, you're going to be okay.

But that's where I had met her.

Not at Costco.

But I had met someone who worked at Women's at Costco, and so that's why it was in my brain.

But she was like, who is this crazy mom?

And anyways, so it was like all those little details like that.

It's like I couldn't tell you how long I was actually pushing.

I think I was pushing for longer than I felt like I was pushing.

I think I told Matt I felt like I pushed for like five minutes, and that was it.

And Matt said it was probably more like 20 minutes, but I'm, you know, in the grand scheme of labor.

Well, that's still not a very long time.

Once I got my epidural, I actually, I think I was at a, like a six for a little while, you know, with pitocin.

My body was like tensing up, tensing up, tensing up.

Then I got the epidural, and I just completely relaxed.

Well, yeah.

And it sped, you know, an epidural can slow you down, but it sped me up.

It definitely sped me up.

And so had Alani, Matthew cares nothing about cutting the cord, so my mom got to cut the cord.

She loves that.

Yeah, it was, it was not bad.

I, you know, that birth, that being my, the first labor and delivery ever, I was very much so like, let's stay in the hospital for as long as they'll let us.

Oh, yeah.

Like, they're changing my baby's diaper.

Like...

They're doing the work for you.

Yeah, exactly.

I was like, they're bringing me food.

I'm just like laying here recovering.

I did tear, I only had first degree tears.

So not too bad.

But I did tear with Alani.

But all in all, her birth was, like, pretty run of the mill, like pretty...

Standard.

Standard.

Postpartum.

Nursing was...

It wasn't too bad in the end.

At first, there was one 24-hour period where Alani didn't have...

Didn't pee or poop at all.

And that was scary.

How many days postpartum was that?

Three?

And so I was pumping and nursing and pumping and nursing and pumping and nursing.

Yeah.

We did end up getting Alani's tongue and lip tire revisions done.

And the doctor for that was in Charlotte.

So that drive home was...

Where did you go?

Kempter?

McMurtry.

McMurtry, I think.

I don't know that one.

Lovely.

He was great.

Everybody in his office was great.

Wish he wasn't like two hours away.

Why did you go two hours away?

So with Alani, I also did...

I went to the nursing mom's group at the hospital for like a year, actually.

But I went to the nursing mom's group initially, then got scheduled with the lactation consultant outside of the group for a one-on-one consult.

They gave me a list of all the people, and she was like, this is the one that I like the most.

And I was like, well, I'm gonna be...

Like this person is going to be, you know, cutting my child.

And so anyways, but I, you know, that drive back, just me, not Matthew.

Oh, you went by yourself.

Yep.

That drive back from Charlotte, having to stop and get like baby Tylenol on the way home, because in my head, I didn't even think to prepare, you know.

After she got her revisions done, and you know, you like hear her crying down the hall, I walked into that room and I was like, all right, I need to nurse her right now, because that will help.

I think I sprayed that entire room with breast milk.

With milk.

It was everywhere, and I didn't even, I didn't say a single thing to anybody, and I was, I'm thinking like, I hope this is normal.

I think they'll, it's like, it's not like they won't know, because it's everywhere.

Right.

So, she got her tongue and lip tie revised.

And that was really hard, like doing the stretches and stuff with her.

But for the first little bit of that, Matthew was home, and so he could do it.

Yeah, that was very helpful.

It was hard whenever he went back to work, and I had to do it.

But at that point, I don't think she was in as much pain either.

So, yes, very, very helpful.

She became a good sleeper.

So, after having Aulani, I knew I, you know, we knew I didn't want to be on any hormonal birth control, so I opted for the non-hormonal IUD, the copper IUD.

Had no pain.

You know, people have crazy stories about that.

I passed out and threw up, but yeah.

Like, I, there's somebody I know that was like, for weeks and weeks and weeks, she was like, what's wrong with me?

And that's what it was.

I mean, like, I had, it was no pain going in, no pain coming out, no pain in the midst.

Like, I just was living my normal life.

And so that was, so Alani was born in 2019.

And then before Gabby was born in 2023, so April-ish 2023, God started to identify, like, certain areas where I was really not holding things with an open hand.

Like, I was very much like, I'm gonna be in control of these things.

And, you know, sometimes you make those decisions and you think that you're, you think that you're, like, being wise.

Like, you tell yourself, you're being wise, you're whatever.

But God was really revealing to me, like, I was just having control issues.

And so one of those things was even with my business, I kept feeling like that He was wanting me to set down my business.

I write marketing copy for small businesses.

And I kept feeling like that He was wanting me to set that down.

And I would continuously tell myself like, okay, it's just my Isaac.

Like, as long as I, you know, like I won't actually have to put it aside.

As long as I act like I'm going to.

There's a passage in the Old Testament where a king, the Lord tells him to go loot this city, but not bring anything back.

And he brings all the, like, best animals and women back.

And he's like, oh, but they're for you, Lord.

Like, they're for your glory, wink, wink.

And I was like, oh, no.

Is that what I'm doing?

This is terrible.

That's exactly like, you know, the Lord is being like, all right, you need to set local type down.

And I'm like, but it's for you.

Even though, like, in terms of my health and everything, I felt comfortable with it, I felt like it was an area that I was being like, nope, not gonna let go.

As in, like, not wanting to have any more children?

Or as in just like that specific type of birth control?

Yeah, as in not wanting to have any more children now, at least.

Like, I think we always knew we wanted to have more than one kid, but I wanted it to be...

I don't know when I wanted it to be.

I just knew I didn't want it to be then.

Because if I had more kids, what would that mean for my business?

And what would that mean for who I am as a person?

And I remember telling people, like, I don't know how people just decide, like, I'm just gonna stay at home.

And I would, I've literally have said out loud, like, what would you even do?

Like, at home.

And like, and okay, so, all right, you've got this long list of things that you would be doing.

None of that sounds appealing to me.

So, do you know what I mean?

So, the first thing that I gave up was the IUD.

Just because you felt like God was calling you to.

I was like, we gotta be real careful, though.

I'm going to give this up, but at the same time, I'm going to still try to maintain some control.

So, I gave that up, and before I found out I was pregnant, I was putting in place all of the things to steward the clients that I was working with well, like steward those relationships really well, to pass them off.

So, I was essentially, like I had made the decision, I was figuring it out, and by the time I actually communicated to them, I was like, and also I'm pregnant.

And so, it ended up being sort of like a confirmation of this was what, you know, I am supposed to be setting aside local type for a while, like completely just giving my clients away and not knowing when I'm going back.

So, found out I was pregnant with Gabrielle.

That pregnancy was harder.

It wasn't anything crazy intense, but I had a scare with gestational diabetes, and that was like funky for the week in between my two tests.

Oh, like you failed the one hour and went back for the three hour, but passed the three hour.

Yes.

And that week in between, mentally, I was just a mess.

And I mean, I have diabetes in my family, so it feels like at that moment, it's inevitable, like this is it.

My whole life is changing, like, you know.

Yeah.

Anyways, passed the second test, but boy, was that test awful.

Oh, yeah.

They did tell me at a certain point, like, how many, how much sugar was in that first hour long test.

And I can't remember, but it was, it was so much more sugar in the second one.

And then it was fasting, too.

And so, I, like, I don't normally, I know people who get really, really nauseous and who are literally like, you don't understand if I, if I, like, I'm gonna throw up, I'm gonna, yeah.

Yep.

That's me.

And I'm, like, just chilling.

Like, I'm, like, just sipping on my drink.

It's no big deal.

I'm, like, talking to the, talking to the nurse, like, just living my life.

And, but no, that second one, oof.

Anyways, it was, I was, you know, head in my hands.

It was, I was, mm-hmm.

It's not a good feeling.

No.

Um, but anyways, but passed it, and, um, I had sciatic pain, which I did with Elani too a little bit, but I have a fantastic chiropractor who I love, love, love.

Who's your chiropractor?

Um, Leanna, down at Sonder.

Oh, I've never been there.

I, she's the only chiropractor I've ever been to.

And Leanna Hastings, yeah.

She's the only chiropractor I've ever been to, and I can never leave her because I'm like, there's nobody, like, what if, anyways, yeah, I can never leave her.

And I've heard that for a lot of people.

Like I've, I was actually talking with some friends and somebody was needing a recommendation for a chiropractor.

And both of us were like, don't go to, like there were two of us who were trying to persuade the other person.

Don't go to whoever her chiropractor is.

Mine's the best.

And it turns out we were talking about the same person.

Yeah, absolutely love her.

But sciatic pain and obturator, something that goes down through your hip, like through the center of it.

So chiropractic help is not really beneficial.

So it was just like, I just had to have Gabby.

Oh, in order for it to feel better.

Uh-huh.

So, you know, the underlying theme of Gabrielle's birth was very much like, this is what giving it to God looks like.

This is how he made my body to function.

Learning that, like instead of saying, like, I'm going to control it in this way, more like learning, like, this is actually how he made me and how my body functions.

And so even her birth, you know, so I went from with Alani going to the hospital at midnight, having her before 9 p.m.

I went from that to, and not knowing what going into labor looks like naturally.

Right.

I had my first contraction for Gabrielle at 1.30 in the morning.

How many weeks for you?

40 and three.

Okay, so like a week earlier.

Yes.

I had my first contraction at 1.30 in the morning, and I wasn't even sure if it was a contraction for real for real.

Right.

And I, Matthew had gone outside.

He goes out and smokes his pipe in the garage.

And I was like at 1.30 in the morning.

No, no, no.

This was before like this was he was coming in at 1.30 from doing that.

And before he went out, I was like, are you really going to go out there and not go to sleep, knowing that I could totally go into labor at any moment?

And he goes, well, you know, it's sort of like if you go to a restaurant, you get up to go to the bathroom.

He's like, if I can make it inconvenient, it'll probably happen.

I was like, all right, whatever.

If you're going to be exhausted, it was kind of like if you're going to be exhausted, that's on you.

It's on you.

Which sounds bad, but honestly, in that moment, it was very like, all right.

Like, we don't actually know if this is going to happen.

Like, I wasn't upset with him or anything.

Were you having like any kind of signs?

Like, had you lost your mucus plug or anything?

No.

But I didn't know, Kayla.

What?

I mean, I knew, I knew like what would happen, but experientially, I had never experienced going into labor on my own.

Right, you were induced, so you didn't know what to expect.

I had the Kayla that we were, that my podcast bud, I had gone to the park.

She was like, I'm going to walk this baby out of you.

I remember that.

She texted me that day.

She's like, I'm going to go walking with Sarah.

We're trying to get this labor moving.

Yes, and so afterwards, I was like, well, guess it didn't work, but I guess it did.

Was it that day?

It was that night.

So it's 1.30 in the morning, and you have your first contraction, you think.

Oh, yes.

And Matthew comes back inside, and I said, hey, by the way, I felt a squeeze a minute ago.

And he was like, okay, cool.

I was like, I really don't know if it was a contraction or not, but I'm communicating it to you just in case.

And he was like, all right, cool.

And it takes him like 0.0 seconds to go to sleep.

So it was like, I tell him this, and the next thing is he's like totally out snoring.

And I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool.

And so it was, I don't even know how long in between.

It was probably like 10 minutes in between.

And I was like, oh, that might have been another contraction.

Maybe.

And I wasn't sure.

And I was overthinking it, you know, like you do.

Do you think maybe I should go to sleep?

No, I thought maybe I should get up and move around and then come back and like just get up, go to the bathroom.

Like my thought process was, let me like empty my bladder, get up, move around, then come back and lay down.

And then if I still feel like maybe I'm having contractions, I don't know, like then I don't know what I'll do.

I'm still like, I don't know.

Um, had you gone to bed yet?

Yes, yeah.

And that woke you up?

Yes.

Well, I wasn't totally sure if him coming into the room woke me up or...

And so, um, I went to the bathroom, and when I'm in, so that was only, I had only had like the two possible maybe contractions.

When I was in the bathroom, I had another contraction.

On the toilet?

And, um, yeah, I think I was on the toilet.

I stood up to wash my hands, had another contraction, felt like maybe my water had broken.

But I remember with Alani, I was texting you a million times being like, I don't know if my water's breaking.

And you were like, if you don't know, it probably isn't.

And so I was like, was that my water breaking?

I don't know.

And I went to go wash my hands, and I had a contraction while I was standing there washing my hands.

And I had just peed.

So, like, I know I wasn't peeing myself.

And I was like, that is my water breaking.

And I thought, well, so much for any cushion.

But I'm standing there, and for sure my water broke.

But at the same time, even though I was like, oh, bummer, it was also really nice to know, like, no induction.

Yes, no induction.

I had been telling I had a different OB this time who was much more OB-like than midwife.

Looking back at it, my OB for Alani was so much more...

She acted so much more like a midwife would in the sense that, like, I felt like I could talk to her for as long as I needed to, and she would answer questions.

Mind you, I still got an induction.

But she was much more like, let's try to do this as naturally as possible.

41 in 3 is better than 39, which is some other OBs.

Right.

So you said the OB this time was not so much like that.

No.

More like your traditional OB.

Yes.

And I think that has a lot to do with how busy the practice was.

Going into this pregnancy for my third pregnancy, my second full term, once I found out I was pregnant, that's whenever I started to become more educated.

So at the time, probably at 36 weeks, Leanna, my chiropractor, was like, are you open to switching from providers?

And I have like, I know a million other people that you could go to that, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

And I was like, no, I'm gonna stick it out.

Like, if I go through this again, then certainly I'm not going to choose this OB.

Like, I'll probably go the midwife route if I go through it again.

But I stuck it out, and anyways, she every single week for the last three weeks would say, all right, like, how do we feel about talking about induction now?

And I'd say...

Wait, your OB would say that?

And I would say, I feel the same way as last week.

If you would like to ask me again next week, feel free.

But my answer is still going to be no.

And it wasn't, like, it wasn't, that sounds like it would be this big heated, it wasn't a big heated conversation.

It was simply, like, no.

And if you ask me again, I'll say no.

I'll give you the same answer.

So she, like, even whenever I saw her in the hospital, she was like, I'm so excited for you.

You got the birth that you wanted, like, blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, okay.

Like, I hardly saw my OB in the hospital.

Also, it's to be noted that her, Gabrielle's due date was December 20th.

So it's the whole, like, Christmas situation.

You want to be induced and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And she was born on the 23rd.

So my question is, what made you think about doing things a little differently this time or not agreeing to an induction or maybe realizing the design God had for your body?

Like, what changed?

Did someone talk to you?

Did you do some research?

Like, what shifted between the first time and the second time?

Um, I think the biggest difference was, so I was listening to you, your podcast, and I was listening to unapologetically unmedicated and, like, totally different vibe.

Oh, yeah.

Totally different vibe from Surrendered Birth.

But it was making me question, like, right, right, why was I induced with Aulani?

And could this have gone a different way?

And I had never heard of fetal ejection.

Before.

And I just felt like, well, you know what?

Like, at that moment of I can't see six to eight inches in front of my face with Aulani, like, if that's as bad as it gets, like, I can just hunker down and push through.

Because it's not that you had a bad experience the first time.

Right.

It's because you probably also didn't know there was another type of experience other than that.

My whole research experience was really just, like, listening to podcasts and occasionally Googling something that I heard on the podcast.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It was nothing, like, too crazy in depth, but I would go and, like, scroll through, especially the unmedicated, unapologetically unmedicated podcast.

I would just scroll through and look for what I was looking for.

Like, I knew enough this time to know what to look for, and I would just add them to my queue to listen to and listen, you know, and I think I was just more curious this time.

I already had the thing in that note in the back of my head of like, I don't want this to be another thing that I tried to control.

And so I'm going to stand up for what I want.

Not that I was a push, I wasn't so much a pushover with the first birth experience, but I just felt like medical professionals are the ones that know everything.

And so if I have a question, I'll just ask them.

And, you know, looking back at it, I'm like, oh, there are so many more things I could have been like, what are the pros and cons of this?

What are the risks?

Yeah.

What are the risks and benefits?

And even still, I think I could have asked more of that with Gabrielle.

Like, what are the risks and benefits of having the antibiotics?

Because I was GBS positive.

Like, I didn't even think like that was, I think that was the one thing I was like, oh, I should have asked.

I should have or could have asked more about that.

But with Gabby, you know, okay.

So my first contraction was at 130.

We have lovely neighbors who we didn't have whenever Alani was born.

We've moved since then.

And so Matthew called our neighbor to come over at 2.30 or 3.

She came over so that there was an adult in the house with Alani asleep.

I don't even think Alani ever saw her because by the time my mom, so Matthew called the neighbor and called my mom, both started at the same time to our house.

One takes, you know, 30 seconds.

And the other one took like an hour 40.

So by the time that my mom got there, I don't even think that Alani knew that our neighbor was ever at the house.

But we got to the hospital.

I 10 out of 10 recommend that if you're going to have a hospital birth, go into labor in the middle of the night when there's no traffic.

That was great.

Because the car rides shorter at that point.

And we got there.

There was hardly anyone even at the hospital.

Right.

Middle of the night.

Middle of the night.

I didn't see anybody in the waiting room.

I didn't see anybody but people that worked there.

And I think it was like four when we actually got to the hospital.

And you were having consistent contractions at this point.

Yes.

So we got to the hospital, they checked me in.

It didn't take me very long to be checked in.

When I was in triage, they checked me.

That was the only time that I actually had to have a cervical check.

I was six centimeters dilated, and I was like, score.

I'm so winning at this thing.

You know, like not having gone into labor naturally before, I was like, this is so great.

Like if it had been under a five, I think it would have felt like more discouraging.

Yeah.

Oh, man, maybe I'm not, you know, whatever.

But so that was nice.

That was nice to know.

And at that point, you know, I was a six and they were like needing to, what were they needing to do?

Like draw blood or something.

They were hesitant to stick me with a needle while I was in the middle of a contraction.

And I was like, I'm chilling.

Like, you can go for it.

It's not going to, like, it's not bothering me.

And what I realized was the major difference between being induced and being in labor for me and my body and my like mental space was that when I was induced, I was just constantly in pain.

It wasn't, you know, people talk about pitocin contractions are so much worse.

Sure, maybe, but it was more like I was just always in pain.

You never really had a total break.

So it was so funny because it was like, well, I'm having a contraction.

So like with with her trying to take blood, I was like, you may as well do it while I'm in a contraction because then I'll actually get a break.

Right, a break from the pain.

Yeah, and so and I'm not super squeamish about needles in general anyways.

So that was like 430.

Got to the room.

They left me alone a lot more than I was like, oh, it's just me and Matthew.

It wasn't even me and Matthew and my mom at this point because I really wanted my my mom or my dad to be with Alani if she woke up, you know, because when you find out that your mom is in the hospital, I just didn't want her to be so scared.

Yeah, I wanted somebody there that she was going to be really comfortable with.

Right.

And so it was just me and Matthew and I so I still was I still was I still got antibiotics.

However, not for long enough, but I still was able to like be up and moving around.

And I knew so much more about just like how to labor, even though even though I was induced, even though I had an epidural, I moved around for as long as I could move around with Alani.

With Gabby, I was like, at one point, I was on the ball, I was leaning over on the bed.

I at one point was like, I don't really feel like I have to poop, like they say, but I do feel like I have to pee.

And if I can empty my bladder, I know that's better.

And so I was like, but I also know that the toilet is going to suck.

And so I had thought to myself, people say, if you can stand two contractions on the toilet, do it.

Just have a goal, get through two contractions on the toilet, and it will help you along significantly.

Or you might get to the point where you do two contractions and you think I can do, like I can just take it one at a time.

Well, I was very much so like, I don't know about all that.

My goal will be for one.

And so I was at a point on the ball where I was like, I need to go to the bathroom.

So we called in the nurse.

The nurse walked with me over to the bathroom.

I got to the toilet and I was like, I'm about to have a contraction.

It's coming on now.

I'm not ready to sit down.

So I literally like hovered over the toilet because I was like, no, don't want to.

And then, so then I did have one contraction on the toilet.

And I was like, that's enough for me, folks.

Thanks.

That's one and done.

We're good.

Let's go back.

Well, come to find out the sensations that I was feeling of like the front of my stomach feeling tight versus just my typical contractions.

Like it was more like it wasn't what I had heard, but it was different than what I was experiencing at first.

Does that make sense?

There was a shift, but it wasn't maybe what you expected.

Yes.

And so therefore, I didn't really think like this is it, but it was.

So this was like the shift.

Yes.

And so that was only at like.

It didn't sound like you've been there that long.

So I got back from the bathroom, I leaned over the bed, like literally holding on to the other side of the bed so that I wouldn't like just slip down.

So I was standing up.

Yeah.

Standing quote unquote.

Yeah.

Leaning over on the bed.

Right.

And the whole team had come in, whoever they were, they were behind me.

Don't know who they were.

The midwife said, are you okay with having a baby in this position?

And I was like, I don't know where else I would want to be.

And looking back at it, I'm like, yeah.

I had heard standing up is great because gravity is on your side.

And you're likely to tear less.

And you're like all these things.

But at the time, it was more so just like, I would rather just stay here than have to try to move somewhere else.

So I guess so.

And I don't know where else I want to be.

I just know I don't want to be on my back.

At this point, I've still got it in my head, or the doctors have it in my head that this could be a very large baby.

This blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Which I didn't really think it was that she was going to be, but it was a possibility.

Anyways, so I couldn't tell you how long I pushed.

But you stayed there.

Maybe like ten minutes.

But yeah, I just stayed there.

And I just had her standing up.

And the midwife asked Matt if he wanted to catch her.

But he didn't even want to cut the cord.

No, thank you.

He was like...

You know, in his mind, it's like this is your job.

You're really, you know, it's your job for a reason.

You've done it obviously more than I have.

And she was like, oh, all that, you know.

You could definitely catch...

You could have caught her.

And I agree.

I think that he could have.

Like, I fully trusted him to catch her.

If he was the only person there, he would have.

Oh, yes, definitely.

No problems.

Like, he's not squeamish.

He's not like whenever I got my epidural with Alani.

He was fine.

Like, he's totally fine.

Like, they wouldn't let him be the person standing in front of me supporting me because it's like a fall risk.

But he totally could have.

Uh-huh, yeah.

Is that new?

Um, I mean, I don't know.

That was 2019.

I've only ever seen the spouse be the supporting person.

No, it was just a nurse.

Oh, yeah.

That was at Cone?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, but, um...

But at the same time, it wasn't like we were up in arms about it.

Like, we were fine.

Um, but anyways, yeah, he totally could have.

And then I remember the midwife being like, all dads can blah, blah, blah.

I would trust...

And I thought to myself, well, I wouldn't trust all dads maybe, but definitely Matthew.

Um, but yeah, so we had her at 722, and that is very significant in...

Well, it was significant for the day because that was the exact time of the sunrise.

And it was significant because in my family, my dad...

You know the mental...

There's like the thing of like once you have a certain kind of car, you always see people with that same car.

Yeah.

So I think that my dad intentionally like planted...

Anytime you see a time that's a 22, so 722, 1022, whatever, he just told us that it means that God loves you.

It was just like he planted it in our brains.

So now anytime we see a 22 or I see a 22, it's like a special thing.

I don't know.

I think now as an adult, I should probably ask him, is that why you did that?

Where did that come from?

Did you do that intentionally just to be like a reminder?

Or did you hear this somewhere?

Is it connected to anything?

Or is it just you are a counselor and you know that's how our brains work and so you planted it?

And it's stuck in mine.

So anyway, so she was born at 722.

So it was just like significant on multiple little cute levels.

But yeah, so from 130 to 722.

Way to go.

And so you had planned this time, I'm going to do it without an epidural, I'm going to do it naturally, and you did.

Look at you.

So how much, I have a couple of questions.

How much did Alani weigh and then how much did Gabrielle weigh?

Yes, Alani weighed eight pounds, five ounces.

Okay.

And Gabby weighed eight pounds, four ounces.

Oh my gosh, so like the same.

Yep.

No tearing with Gabby, no epidural, standing up, much more mental clarity.

It was just totally different.

Totally different, and you enjoyed it?

Totally different, or?

That's the hard thing is like, I would still say like Alani's birth was, like my experience with her was great.

Yeah.

But my experience with Gabby was so much easier.

Even though it was natural.

Even though it was natural.

Because it was natural.

Yeah.

I mean, even like I had my birth, like I actually had a birth plan written out for Gabby.

Gave it to the nurses.

Hardly ever had to think about it, look at it, care about it.

Because God just orchestrated it all.

In terms of how quick the labor was, in terms of no complications.

It was at night.

I feel like the night nurses are always the best nurses.

From my experience, and from other people's hospital stories that I've heard, I feel like night nurses are always just really chill, because they don't have as much going on.

Could be totally different for some people.

But yeah, it really just felt like me, Matt, and the one night nurse, it felt like that was it.

That was everybody.

Yeah.

Until everybody came in.

Right, until you're like waiting over the bed.

But I didn't see them, because they were all behind me.

My midwife, in fact, was so quiet and sweet, that I was like, can you speak up?

I was like, I don't think I said that out loud, and I half think she was doing it intentionally, because she said, I know there's a lot going on in the room, but I want you to focus on me and my voice.

And so I think she was just being quiet and calm, so that I had to focus to hear her.

That's all speculation.

So you said that this time, you said the first time you had an OB, you felt more like a midwife.

Yeah, looking back at it.

And you said this time you had an OB, who was more like a traditional OB.

Yeah.

So why did a midwife end up delivering you?

Well, I had asked my OB, because it was Christmas, are you going to be there?

Like, are you going to be on vacation or not?

And she was not.

She was working.

So December 23rd, Christmas Eve Eve.

She was working the two days before that.

And I think she was working actually Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

But she was not working when I was actually in labor.

And so the midwife who was on call for the hospital was it.

Oh, so this was a hospital midwife, not one from like the practice that you were at.

No, there are no midwives at the practice that I was at.

But I knew that my chances of having my actual OB for birth were really low in the first place.

Because my OB who I loved, the OB that I met whenever I lost Abigail, the OB that was with me my whole pregnancy with Alani didn't deliver Alani because she wasn't working at that time.

Now she came in and checked on me, and I loved her, so it was fun to see.

I remember her coming in and being like, we would chat about shoes and chat about whatever.

And then basically it was like, okay, you're good.

And I'd be like, yeah, see you later.

Now with the OB that I had for Gabrielle, it kind of was also a god thing that she wasn't working.

I think it would have been fine.

She may have made you get up in the bed though.

I suppose that's a possibility.

However, I don't think she would have.

I think at that point, me having said no to so many questions of being induced, I think she would have let me be.

I think the biggest thing would have been that I may have tensed up a little more just that she was there.

Oh, that's not what you want in a care provider.

Right.

I hoped that I wouldn't.

But I think also at the same time, I kind of was like, I mean, with Abigail, Dr.Vernado was my original, was my OG OB, and she's no longer practicing.

But with Dr.Vernado, whenever I lost Abigail, her commenting on just the piece that Matthew and I had and calling out like, oh, because she's a believer too, you guys must know God.

So my thought process was I have no idea where this other OB is in that sense.

In their faith, yeah.

In their faith.

And so if God chooses her to be the one that's in the room, then my hope was that there would be a moment of recognition that, you know, God was a part of this story and was in the room with us and wherever she was, whether she was a believer and needed encouragement in her faith or not.

My hope was not, I just, I was like, I want to be the best ambassador for Christ, even in that moment, even if I don't really want her to be there.

But God had other plans and I was still kind of, all of that being said, I was still kind of relieved that it was, you know, another midwife, yeah.

And I know there's a difference between like a hospital midwife and how they would care for patients versus a midwife who would like go to people's homes.

But she was really, yeah, yeah.

But she was great.

Well, good.

I think her name was Vivian.

That's all I know.

I don't even know her last name.

Well, Vivian, you were wonderful, whoever you are.

Yes.

Okay.

So yeah.

So do you have, I mean, I feel like just listening to your story that God was teaching you surrender.

Yeah.

God was teaching you, you know, to not be the one in control.

Do you feel like there was anything else he was teaching you?

No, I don't think so, but it felt so all-encompassing.

Like, you know, it went, it's yes, surrender in terms of like just generally fertility and pregnancy and birth, but also like it's like a whole person and identity because it was having to set down my business was an identity issue.

So, so I, yeah, okay, so I definitely feel like it was a control and surrender issue, but it was also hopefully I say that hopefully the biggest idolatry issue.

I mean, I hope that I don't have any other major idolatry issues the rest of my life, but I felt like, wow, this is like such an crazy example of modern day idolatry.

You know, I don't have like a statue sitting in my living room, but I, but kind of I have like, not that a home office is such a terrible thing, but I mean, like the unwillingness to give it up.

Your business was an idol for you.

Yes.

And it was so wonderful and so funny to me how much peace I experienced after I was born.

After I obeyed.

It's like, why would I think that I really, really felt like that I was going to just feel totally crushed?

I likened it to those like, they're like ASMR videos or the like video, random videos online where they like just crush stuff for fun.

And they like see how it oozes out or breaks down, like see how it is when it's crushed.

Like, does it crumble or smoosh or whatever?

And that's how I felt like I was going to feel was just like, you're taking everything from me.

And instead, I've just felt so much peace.

You know, I credit how labor went to that.

And I would totally describe my labor as peaceful.

And so it was, yeah, it was, I think, yes, surrender, but also like a idolatry, surrendering of my idol, of that.

So does that answer your question?

Yes.

I feel like I, you know, I write, I have written for a living, like people pay me to write.

And yet, whenever I talk, I talk in so many incomplete sentences, and I'm all over the place, so.

That's so funny.

Yeah.

Do you have any advice for moms, for expecting moms or parents, whether it's their first baby or a subsequent child?

Any nuggets of wisdom that you learned along the way?

You can do it.

I mean, it's just that cliche.

It really is.

It's like, it's hard to not say, like, oh, well, just listen to the end of Kayla's podcast.

And every week she tells you, like, just learn all that you can.

And then anyways.

You're so sweet.

That's my tagline.

I love it.

But really, like, especially for first time parents, like, ignore all the people that are like, oh, my gosh, you're never going to sleep again.

It's going to be, you know, you don't know that.

And every kid's different.

And also, like, just the Lord gives you certain graces for those certain seasons.

Like, I remember with Alani thinking that that was going to be, like, the crux for me.

Like, I was going to have to get up.

I was going to be so sleep deprived.

I love sleep.

Matthew will tell you, like, my family will win an Olympic award in naps.

Like, we love sleep.

And I just thought, like, yes.

And I just thought, like, this is going to be the hardest thing.

And then I ended up, like, loving.

I just was like, I know this is not going to last forever.

And so, therefore, I can do this.

I can do this for now.

And I love this tiny little one.

And the hormones will kick in for your, you know, your hormones are not totally against you.

Right?

Like, they're helpful.

They're helpful sometimes.

Like, sometimes, yes, you're like, why am I crying?

But sometimes you're, sometimes it's also helpful to be like, I love this tiny tot so much.

And it's 3am and I've had a sum total of 35 minutes of sleep in the last 48 hours.

And yet still, I'm like, happy to be here.

So, you know, the Lord gives you what you need.

The Lord, like, provides financially.

The Lord provides friendships.

The Lord provides rest when you don't think that you should be feeling as awake as you are.

And yeah, there was something that the seasons thing is helpful for me.

Knowing, like, and I guess that's true with labor and delivery too, right?

Like, knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and the tunnel's likely not as long as you think it is.

Like, if something is really hard, be it teething or labor itself, or the beginning of nursing, it's so helpful to remember, like, this isn't gonna last forever.

Yeah, that's really helpful for me.

Probably for others.

Yeah.

To remind myself of that often at 3 o'clock in the morning, and 4.30 in the morning, and 6 o'clock in the morning, all the time.

Oh, I wanted to say one more thing that I forgot.

Say it.

You know, the friend who was at our house for whenever I lost Abigail?

Yeah.

He is a single guy.

He's not even an uncle.

I couldn't expect him to have any idea what was going on or how to react.

But he has such a strong faith, and I don't think I considered that in that moment.

I was like, Matthew, you're going to have to ask him to leave.

And we didn't, and he stayed, and he apparently, at some point in the middle of the night, slipped a note under our door.

And it was the sweetest, most thoughtful, you could tell that he had been in prayer, because he has no experience, he has no right to leave a note that sweet under our door.

And anyways, so apparently, he was in the other room, just praying on our behalf, too.

And I just wanted to credit him, since I mentioned his part of the story, that it ended up being just a blessing that he was even there.

Even though I had, like, moaned hours before, been like, we're gonna have to kick him out.

Yeah, God used him to help with healing, so.

That's sweet.

Yeah.

Great guy.

Still single?

Yes.

At least that I know of.

You're like, ladies out there.

He doesn't live locally, though, so.

Well, never mind.

Sad day.

But yeah.

Well, thank you so much again.

This was super fun.

Yeah.

Thank you for having me.

Always.

Thanks again for joining us today.

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