039 - A Handful of Challenges Can Lead To A Handful of Blessings (with Carlie Smith)

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SHOW NOTES:

Navigating your first year of marriage can be challenging, but it’s even more challenging while also navigating your first pregnancy, along with a number of family tragedies along the way. Then finding out you’re expecting another not long after you’ve delivered your first is also filled with its own difficulty. Listen today as you hear how Carlie found a way through it all and was able to enjoy both of her birthing experiences and is now loving being a mother to two under two. 

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hey everybody, I am very tired right now.

If you could please pray for our family.

We have been through the wringer this week for the last four days.

It started with my two-year-old has had the nasty nasty, the vomiting, diarrhea, fever, just feeling miserable.

And at first, it was just him, but my husband was out of town, so I was doing it all by myself.

And then, last night, it sort of was like boom, boom, boom.

Our seven-month-old and our ten-year-old and our four-year-old all started having fevers and everything.

And it's just, I know that's not fun to talk about or maybe even here, but that's just where we are right now.

I didn't sleep at all last night.

My baby will not sleep right now unless I am holding him and rocking him and shushing him and patting him.

And it's just been a whirlwind.

And then my husband came back last night, but then had to get up super early and go to church all day today, and then had another job he had to do later this afternoon and evening.

So it's just been hard.

Thankfully, my mom came over during the day today, which was super helpful.

I would have never made it without her.

She came just to be an extra set of hands, because it's a lot to deal with.

Multiple toddlers and kids and everybody.

It's just been, we are going through it right now.

And I know the Lord is faithful.

He will see us through this.

And earlier today, I was just walking outside, holding the baby, just praying and singing worship music to Him, and just speaking the name of Jesus over this whole situation.

Because I'm sure in five years, we'll look back and say, oh, remember that time when everybody was sick and throwing up and having diarrhea, and it was lasting for days and days and days, and dad wasn't home.

And it'll be this memory to look back on.

But right now, while we're in the thick of it, it's been pretty intense.

My husband actually has our baby right now so that I can record this intro, but I can hear him crying in the background.

So I'm going to go ahead and stop us there and just say, please pray for our family.

We also have a really big week coming up and lots going on this week.

So if you could just send some prayers our way, we would really, really appreciate it.

Okay, let's get in to this week's episode.

Navigating your first year of marriage can be challenging, but it's even more challenging while also navigating your first pregnancy, along with a number of family tragedies along the way.

Then finding out you're expecting another not long after you've delivered your first is also filled with its own challenges.

Listen today as you hear how Carlie found a way through it all and was able to enjoy both of her birthing experiences and is now loving being a mother of two under two.

Welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater, and today I have Carlie with me.

You can go ahead and introduce yourself.

Tell us a little bit about who you are and your family.

I'm Carlie.

I'm 28.

I've been married for almost three years.

I have two little girls that are under two.

One will be 19 months and then the other will be six months.

And I used to work in labor and delivery as a surgical tech and then decided to home birth.

Oh, so we'll get into all of that today.

Two under two, how are you doing?

I'm doing good.

I'm doing good.

They're a lot to keep up with, but they're fun.

They're entertaining and they never stop.

So but no, it's fun.

It's fun watching my oldest be a big sister because I was terrified that she was not going to like her little sister.

So the fact that she does really helped.

Okay, so let's just jump right in.

So how did your first pregnancy come about?

So my first pregnancy, I was married for two weeks and then I found out I was pregnant.

We were not trying to have tiny humans, but we were not exactly preventing.

Well, if you're not preventing, then...

Yeah, you're trying.

I've learned that.

Like, was this like honeymoon, baby?

I guess you could say that.

We didn't take a honeymoon, but I mean...

Well, okay, so right after you got married.

Literally right after.

Had to be if it was two weeks later.

Yeah.

So we got married.

I had my cycle the day after we got married, and then right after that was pregnant the next month.

I remember I was in my bathroom.

My cycle was a week late.

I went to Dollar Tree and had gotten a test because my friend had been like, you need to pee on a stick.

You need to pee on a stick.

And I'm like, leave me alone.

I'm not pregnant.

Go away.

Like, this is fine.

It's just being weird.

It'll be back.

I'd said the same thing to my husband.

Like, you know, we're here.

Maybe I should grab one.

And he was like, nah, it's just being weird.

It's fine.

So anyway, I was at home, middle of the day, I peed on a stick.

And literally as soon as I did, I saw like that first line starting to form.

And I called my friend and I was like, dude, I think I'm crazy, but I swear I see two lines.

And she FaceTimed me and I showed her and she said, oh, no, congratulations, you're pregnant.

And I lost it.

Like I sobbed.

Was definitely in shock and had no idea what I was doing, what we were doing.

Obviously, that wore off a little.

I made like a cute little sign with the test and my husband came home, he went to the bathroom.

He came out and I was like, did you see our new little sign?

And he looked at it and he was like, how do you know?

Did he see the test?

Yeah, he saw it.

I said, well, I mean, that looks pretty positive to me.

He was like, but how do you know?

He was in shock.

It took him a little while to like mentally process that.

And he was pretty much super quiet.

Like we did not acknowledge that for a hot minute.

But we all like we had had conversations about what birth would look like when we had kids or things like that.

And had always agreed that we were going to go like the home birth route.

Okay, so that was like, even before you got married, you agreed you were going to do home birth.

We had agreed on that.

Just because of my background being in labor and delivery, I was like, I'm absolutely not doing it.

So tell me a little bit about that then.

Tell me about what about working in labor and delivery made you want to deliver at home?

Because I assume before working in labor and delivery, that wasn't the case.

No, that wasn't necessarily the case.

My great-grandmother, though, had 17 kids.

All of them but one was born at home.

So obviously, that concept had been mentioned, but nobody in my family had done it.

I was born in a hospital.

My husband was born.

I was a C-section.

Both my sisters had kids.

They were both born in hospitals.

So it was never one of those things where I thought, oh, I'm going to home birth.

But working in labor and delivery, I worked nights, so I was a surgical tech, which means I helped do all the emergent and urgent C-sections that happened on nights.

I set up the ORs.

I passed instruments to help during surgery and occasionally assisted doctors when there was no other doctor on call to deliver babies.

And a lot of those C-sections happened because induction failed.

You know, people come in to be induced for whatever reason.

Those inductions start a snowball effect, and suddenly either mom doesn't look good, baby doesn't look good, or neither one of them look good, and it's, oh, we need to have a C-section to get your baby out.

And it happened over and over and over again.

And I just, I didn't want to be there.

I didn't want the pressure of being induced.

I didn't want the pressure of having an IV, having internal fetal monitoring, and not being able to walk around like I wanted to.

Like, I wanted to be the one calling the shots for birth and being able to do what I wanted to do instead of feeling pressured.

Yes.

To do everything.

And then people not being able to eat and labor.

And I'm like, you're basically running a marathon.

You need to be able to eat to run a marathon.

So yeah, there was just lots of things that I was like, I don't want to end up in the OR at 3 a.m.

And the best way I know how not to is to not be here.

Right.

Like, if I need you, I'll get here.

If not, we're going to do this at home.

I also feel like we've gotten to the point where we think the female body is flawed.

Right.

Or pregnancy, when in all reality, your body was created to do what it does.

And I'm a firm believer that your body and baby work together, and that if you leave the body and your baby alone, most of the time, not in every situation, most of the time, everything goes fine.

Yeah.

So I believe that too.

You were not created flawed.

So God's design is perfect.

Yes.

And the medical system has just gotten, they've stopped teaching people how to deliver a breach.

If you have a breach presentation, it's automatically like emergency C-section or a planned C-section or aversion that could turn into a C-section.

Instead of teaching providers how to deliver vaginally breached and just going with what's naturally happening.

Right.

Like, breach is a variation of normal, and somehow people get major abdominal surgery.

Just because, right?

And it also never sat well with me that, like, you get more physical therapy for a knee replacement than you do for having major abdominal surgery.

Oh, yeah.

We have started the, oh, I had a C-section, which...

Right, like, it's a very, like, it's a real simple thing.

Yeah, when it's not, like, you're literally cutting through every single layer your body has, separating the muscles by pulling, like, two humans putting their hands in you and pulling in opposite directions to open your muscles, cutting your uterus, cutting the amniotic sac, pulling your baby out, cutting their cord, pulling the placenta out, and then suturing it all back up.

And sometimes having to push your organs around, too, right?

Yeah, and then they send you home and they're like, oh, enjoy your new baby.

Don't lift anything over 10 pounds, and we'll see you in six weeks.

It's crazy.

I mean, C-sections really are, like, so ridiculously common, like one in three now, but they're definitely not normal.

It's not normal for that to happen.

It's not the original design.

It is a big, big, big deal to have a C-section.

It just is simplified in our culture.

Like, it's not.

It's very, very simplified.

Okay, so let's jump back to you and your husband have decided you're having a home birth after the shock of this surprise pregnancy wears off.

Oh, yeah, so because I had worked in labor and delivery, I had already, like, put my foot down, like, I'm not having a baby in a hospital if I can, like, have anything to say about it.

So we were both on board with that.

I found out I was pregnant with, though, fairly early.

I want to say my first ultrasound dated, like, six or seven weeks, and I had found out prior to that.

So I was, like, four or five weeks when I found out.

I immediately started calling everybody I knew about home births.

I joined the Facebook group.

I reached out to a few who, like, didn't have availability, and they would give me another midwife's number, and I would call them, and people were already booked up for August.

And when were you due?

August.

I was due in August.

So I found a midwife, and then I also found someone who would do an ultrasound just to confirm that it was a unir in pregnancy and not tubal or anything like that, because my mom had had atopics, and nobody tells you that the signs of, like, your first trimester resemble, like, period symptoms or ovulation pain.

So, like, I'm cream pink and all this other stuff, and I'm like, am I losing it or what's going on?

Yeah.

So those were the first thing I did was found a midwife and then automatically found somebody to do an ultrasound to confirm that it was viable.

Great.

Yes.

And so everything was smoothly there.

Yes.

And then what did your rest of your pregnancy look like?

The rest of my pregnancy was good.

Well, I say good.

I tend to get sick until, like, 20 or 25 weeks.

Girl, I'm right there with you.

Multiple times a day.

With my first, I craved anything like lemon-scented or flavored.

So I, like, bought lemon toilet bowl cleaner.

So you could smell it while you're throwing up.

As I was having to throw up, that's what I smelled.

No, I was pitiful, like, riding to my first ultrasound.

My mom's friend drove me, and I was holding a grocery bag in the car and got sick, like, on the way down there and hadn't eaten anything because that's...

I mean, I couldn't stomach anything at first.

It got to the point where my husband looked at me one night and he said, You throw up really well.

You're a professional.

Right.

So I got sick a whole lot.

But other than that, my pregnancy was super smooth.

I had a chiropractor that I saw, like, all the way through who was Webster certified.

She's fantastic.

Anytime somebody is pregnant in Burlington, I send them her way.

Okay, who is she?

Kelly Minder.

And she's at Back and Balance.

Cool.

She's fantastic.

We love her.

For all you Burlington folks out there.

Even if you're not in Burlington and you need a chiropractor, like, she's worth the drive, I promise.

I did massages every so often after my first trimester, and pretty much read everything I could get my hands on pertaining to birth and natural birth.

And so that's what I focused on, pregnancy and how to birth.

So did you, like, take any classes or listen to any podcasts, or were books, like, your main source of education?

Books were the main source, but I did do some, like, Birthing Instincts was one of my go-tos.

Oh yeah, podcast.

Yes.

What is it?

Build to Birth.

And then the Happy Home Birth Podcast.

Oh yeah.

Was another one that was really good.

And then reading-wise, I did Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, Spiritual Midwifery by her.

There was one on statistics, and I'm not sure I even made it through that one completely because it was a whole lot of, like, statistics, and I was like, I can't do this.

I can't do it.

But yeah, I did a lot of those.

I did a lot of, like, reading other people's birth stories.

I read other people's birth stories, obviously, like, going to the chiropractor to make sure everything, like, was in alignment, and my pelvis had enough room, and she had enough room to get in whatever position she wanted, and stuff like that.

I tried to stay relatively calm through that whole pregnancy, but there was definitely like family circumstances that were challenging.

My husband's grandma died unexpectedly, but not really unexpectedly.

She wasn't doing the best, but she had died.

Like while you were pregnant?

Yes, while I was pregnant.

My father-in-law died unexpectedly in August.

Or no, he died in July.

He was buried in August.

Of the same time you were pregnant with this first baby?

With my first.

So I was like 27 weeks pregnant.

And you know, we struggled a lot with that because my father-in-law was a really good man.

Like a really good man.

And so...

Thanks.

I'm gonna try to get through it without crying.

He was so excited.

To be a grandfather.

So anyway, and then in July, his mom had called and had said, you know, your dad has...

I don't even know if the voicemail had said he had had a stroke or what, but that, you know, he was in the bathroom, he had fallen and hit in his head, and that they were taking him to the hospital.

So he had had previous strokes, I think like one or two before that, and they had been like mild, and, you know, they were...

He had always been like conscious right after.

But my husband also has a background as an EMT.

And so for whatever reason, he knew by that message that like that was...

He wasn't going to wake up.

And so we didn't go to the hospital.

We didn't do any of that because my husband had actually gone and saw his dad before he had died.

He went to his work and saw him.

And so they had made peace.

So that was that.

Can't imagine even being pregnant while that's happening.

So that happened like right before, like right before you were...

Yeah, so I was due, the first due date was August 2nd.

And then the second due date was August 6th.

Why did you have two due dates?

So I think one was based off of two different ultrasound.

So the first ultrasound and then the second ultrasound.

Showing different due dates, but I actually didn't have her until August 19th.

So how did the waiting game go at the end?

Cause I've been there before.

The waiting game, so you know, like 40 weeks rolls around.

Well, so the average first time mom goes to 41 and three.

That's like 11 days after your expected due date.

So I had it in my mind, like 41 and three was like, I was probably gonna go that long.

I was first time mom, whatever.

So, you know, 41 and three came and it left.

And I was like, all right, 42 weeks rolled around.

And I was like, okay, what are we doing?

Are you having any signs?

I was in prodromal labor for like the first week or the last week.

Like I would just contract on and off, but they never changed.

They weren't painful.

Like they never got closer together.

Nope, they are.

They pretty much like they hung around for a little while, then they'd go away and they'd come back and they'd go away.

Yeah.

So on August 18th, I had talked to my midwife and I was like, all right, so what's our plan?

Because, you know, CNM hit that 41 week mark and they're like, all right.

All right, let's do something.

We got to have a baby, otherwise I got to transfer you.

Yeah, 42.

Yeah, we've got to do it.

So I was past that point.

And I wasn't with the CNM, I was with the CPM.

And you know, she never said like, oh, we need to schedule your induction or I can't take care of you anymore or anything like that.

I ended up taking the midwife's brew.

And how far along were you when you took it?

42 and 4.

And you hadn't had any sort of symptoms?

Had you lost your plug?

Wow.

OK.

So had you wanted her to check dilation before you did that?

I had said something about it and she was like, there's no point.

It's not going to give us any indication about labor.

Well, that's true.

Yeah.

I had a friend who was a midwife at ARMC who came the day before to my house.

She was like, I'm on vacation, so I'm not working.

Do you want me to come check in and strip your membranes?

So that's what she did.

She came to my house.

So that was at 42 and?

One.

I mean, it was late in the game.

Yes.

So she did that.

But nothing came from that.

No.

And so a few days later, you took the next day.

I ended up doing the midwife's brew.

I stayed at my mom's house because my husband was working.

He was working somewhere that wasn't like super close to home.

My mom was like, I don't want you to be alone.

So I had been at her house.

I had gotten up at like 8 o'clock that morning, took that concoction, told my midwife that I had taken it, whatever.

Spent the majority of the day going to the bathroom.

And I was still contracting, but like I had been contracting.

I had been to sleep with contractions, was doing like clear sage oil on my stomach, all the things to try to get this baby to like, come on.

Yeah.

So I took that, went to the bathroom literally all day long.

At lunchtime, she had said something about me taking it again, and I was like, no.

I have hardly eaten anything.

I've been going to the bathroom.

I'm not trying to get dehydrated.

Because that's not gonna be helpful.

And so pretty much all day, I was like walking around the yard, doing the stairs.

Now, did you take the brew because you wanted to, or because she said like, it's time?

I didn't mind taking it because I'm like, is my body gonna do this?

Or like, are we ever gonna have a baby?

Is there actually a baby in there?

Like, what's going on?

Just because at that point, I'm like, okay, we need to do something because you obviously, you're not gonna hang out in there forever.

And I was like, I don't know if my body is just like, like stalling it.

Yes.

Yes.

Have you been doing the mile circuit?

I had, I had been doing the mile circuit and all the things.

So, and they had started to like get closer together, but you know, my midwife was like, if something drastic happens, let me know.

Water breaks, they suddenly change.

They get more intense.

Like, you know, when something dramatic happens, let me know.

But you know, there's a shift.

Yeah.

So, I was that whole afternoon, I was walking laps around the backyard.

At one point, I was sitting on the back deck in labor, and my sister called me and she was like, you're not going to have a baby today.

Like, it's not going to happen.

If you're still talking to me, you're not going to have a baby.

I'm like, all right, whatever.

My stepmom had called me and was like, Carlie, if your contractions are like that, shouldn't you call your midwife?

Because I mean, they were pretty close together.

I want to say they were like, between five and three minutes, like they were close, but they were not, they were fine.

But you were handling them.

Yes, yes.

I called my best friend who lived in Jacksonville at the time, told her what was going on.

She was like, I'm on my way.

Oh, was she planning to be there?

This was a spare of the moment planning to be there.

Her mom was coming.

She knew her mom was coming because her mom was there when I was born.

She took me to my first ultrasound.

And so she was like, all right, I'm coming.

Wait, so you're really close with her mom?

Yes.

So was your mom going to be there too?

Yeah.

My mom and her mom are best friends.

Who all was going to be at this birth?

Okay, so my husband was there.

My mom was there because we were having her at my mom's house, my mom and stepdad's, because the house was bigger.

They had multiple bathrooms, like our house is teeny-shiny, two bedrooms, one bath.

And so they were going to be there.

And then Patricia was supposed to be there, but once my water broke, I forgot to call her.

And then Sharon came, and Anna drove from Jacksonville to be there.

So she pulled.

Who's Sharon?

Sharon is my mom's best friend, who is Anna's mom.

Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

And the midwife and her sister.

Yes, yes.

All right.

So you're contracting on your back porch.

Yes.

Three to five minutes apart.

Talking to my family.

Not too intense.

And then what happened?

I called my friend and told her.

So she was like, all right, I'm headed that way.

And so like 9, 9.30, I had texted my midwife and she was like, you know, why don't you try to take it out?

If something happens, we'll know.

So I laid down on my mom's couch in sideline position.

She's out in her recliner.

We turned on Princess Diaries.

And at like 9.30, my water broke.

And I didn't feel my water break.

I heard it.

Like I heard a pop.

I got up, I went to the bathroom, and as I was like sitting down on the toilet, the rest of it broke.

And I was like, hey, mom, you might want to call Matt until my water just broke.

Mom said, hey, Carlie, you might want to call your midwife and tell her your water just broke.

And I was like, fair point, valid, because she is an hour and a half away.

Like, good idea.

Yeah.

So I texted her, and I'm like, hey, my water broke.

And she's like, all right, is it clear?

Does it have a smell?

You know.

All the things.

All the things.

And I'm like, nope, it's clear.

No smell.

It's fine.

She's like, all right, well, I'll start, like, heading your way.

And so I was sitting on the toilet contracting.

My dad called me.

Well, Matt had just left to go let our dog out, had pulled in our driveway.

So you were sitting at your mom's already?

Okay, he had pulled in our driveway when my water broke.

So he like let the dog out really quick and turned around and came back.

By the time he got back, it was probably like 10, 1030.

And my dad had called.

And I remember like looking at my phone and saying, I'm not going to be able to do this.

And then hit answer.

And he was like, hey, baby, how are you doing?

And I was like, I was fine until my water broke about an hour ago.

And my next contraction hit and I just handed my phone over to my husband.

He was like, Al, I don't know what you said, but we're going to have to call you back.

We're just going to have to call you back.

And so I sat on the bathroom for a while.

I had tried to get into the bathtub, but it was taking too long to fill up.

So I went and got in the shower.

I ran out all the hot water in the shower.

By the time I got out, my best friend was there.

The birth assistant showed up before the midwife did.

She was like, do you want to try hands and knees, see if that fills better, anything like that?

And it didn't.

I was like, I have to go back to the bathroom.

That was just where I was most comfortable.

And I think I was probably still in one of the bedrooms when my midwife got there.

And she did fetal hard tones.

She asked me if I would drink something.

I think they brought me a granola bar or something after I'd made it back to the bathroom.

And so I was on the toilet backwards, straddling it.

There's actually a picture of my mom on a birthing ball holding my dog.

And my dog has his paw on my back.

And so does my mom.

So he was my little doggie, Dula.

And I was just sitting there.

And they would tell me, because I guess they could see me tense up, and they would tell me to relax my shoulders and to relax my jaw and relax.

And then my midwife had said, if you feel like you need to push, then stand up.

And she was like, you can reach down to see if you can feel hair or whatever.

And I was like, no, I'm OK.

Well, a few minutes later, I reached down and I felt her hair.

I was like, OK.

I didn't say anything.

Were you not feeling all the pressure?

I was, but I have them on video if you ever want to see them.

I am very like...

Were you just very quiet?

I am very quiet.

I may breathe and like grunt a little, but like I don't...

I am not a talker normally in labor.

So Bo's labor was from water breaking to her being out was only three hours.

Wow.

Yeah.

So like my water broke at 930.

She was born at like 1248.

So I was sitting on the toilet.

My mom saw my feet shift.

I didn't say anything.

She saw my feet, me plant my feet, and I stood up, and she rolled back, and my midwife looked down, and she said, you know, she's got a nuchal hand.

It's the sweetest thing, but on your next contraction, you need to push.

So the next one, you know, I pushed.

She said, reach down and grab your baby, and I reached down, grabbed her, and then sat back down on the toilet.

So you caught your baby.

I did.

I caught the first one.

And so that was, you know.

What was her name?

Boston Olivia.

Boston Olivia.

But you call her Beau.

Yes, we call her Beau.

That's cute.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So yeah, Beau was, she did give me somewhere between a second and a third degree tear with that lovely little hand of hers.

I was going to say, a nickel hand, that'll do it to you.

I still give her a hard time about that hand, but you know, at 17 weeks, we have her on ultrasound draping her cord around her arm, like it's a purse.

So I just didn't know she was going to have a thing for that cord.

And the child still has the thing for purses, like you have a bag and it's going on her arm.

But yeah, so she came out, she was perfect.

I sat there, it wasn't long, and my placenta was like, ready to come.

Yeah, it was right there.

I literally reached down and grabbed it and put it in a Tupperware container.

And then we planted it outside the next day.

The next day, look at you.

I was just still in our deep freezer.

My second one is, my second one is, it's still there.

But yeah, so like, I mean, we got that done, they got me back to the bed, they checked me out, they got her latch.

I think by the time it was all like sudden done, they didn't leave until like 4 a.m.

So sounds about right, and then, you know, I had a baby, you had a baby, less than a year into marriage, yes, after a few very significant deaths in the family and moving, you had a baby.

That's a lot of things to happen in one year.

That was it was a lot.

So how did postpartum go?

postpartum was rough.

I spent so much time preparing for pregnancy that I like forgot all about postpartum because nobody talks about postpartum.

You know, you hear about PPD, you hear about PPA in the first six weeks.

But then it kind of like people just they don't talk about it.

And so postpartum was rough.

My mom went back to work at three days.

My husband went back to work at three days.

We were still at my parents house because our bed was too high for me to get into, especially with the tear.

I thought I was breastfeeding, but it turns out was not actually breastfeeding like I thought I was.

So I've got IGT, which is insufficient glandular tissue.

So my body just does not have the glands to produce the amount of milk to sustain a baby.

And I had no idea, had never heard about it.

Nothing.

The first I'd heard about it was when the birth assistant had late looked at me postpartum and was like, I feel like you may have IGT, but I don't know.

And it won't be that you won't produce milk.

You just won't produce enough.

So I'm like, all right, what do I do?

You know, I'd started taking like ordering all the herbs I could think of to take pumping, doing whatever like I thought we could do to do it.

But it wasn't working.

So postpartum was rough with her.

Well, you're probably exhausted.

Yes.

You didn't really have support at home anymore.

You weren't able to breastfeed successfully, so your baby's really hungry and crying.

And you had just had a, I mean, several traumatic things happened during your pregnancy.

And now all your hormones are trying to exit your body, and you're trying to heal from a third degree tear.

This is, that is a lot to deal with.

Yeah, it was.

It was a lot.

But so like fast forward two weeks, I took her to the pediatrician, and they were like, oh, she's starving.

We tried several goat milk formulas, and she was just constantly constipated.

So I learned about donor milk and found friends that donated.

And she was on donor milk until she was six months old.

And then her body broke out in like this awful eczema rash everywhere.

Tried topical steroid oil twice, it wouldn't touch it.

So I ended up putting her own raw goat milk.

And it went away?

Within like a week.

And now my child will not touch breast milk.

I gave her some of her sisters the other day, and she looked at the bottle, made a face and sat it down, and then came back a few minutes later, tried it again, and like looked at it and handed it to me.

Like, I don't know what this is, but it's not mine.

So what did you figure out what was in the breast milk that was making her so irritated?

My best guess was it was a dairy allergy.

Mm-hmm, like cow's milk.

Yeah, but because of like having donor milk, I wasn't going to go to these women and be like, hey, can you try cutting this out of your diet so I can see what it does?

Yeah.

At that point, I was like, you know, the way she's presenting is eczema.

Eczema is usually a gut allergy, so let's work on the gut.

So I did probiotics, raw goat milk, and a multivitamin.

And it healed it?

And her pediatrician was like, I'm totally fine with what you're doing.

So is she dairy free now?

Now she can have, she loves yogurt.

She can have dairy.

The only time she ever gets a little breakout of it is if she has been sick.

So she doesn't have the eczema from dairy any longer.

Well, that's encouraging.

But she is still drinking goat milk.

Is she still in the probiotic?

No.

Wow.

So it was just an initial healing thing.

She can eat regular cheese, regular yogurt.

Now, obviously, she's not dairy crazy, but.

Yeah.

And we still do raw milk most of the time when we can get it.

But because of the season of the year right now, it's not.

They're just now starting to have extra goat milk from having all the babies.

Goat milk's not cheap.

No, it's not.

I want to say it's like $20 a gallon.

Yeah.

And I was driving at one point all the way to, it was past Winston.

So I mean, it was like an hour, an hour and a half from our house to get it.

And I was buying it like two gallons at a time.

But even store-bought goat milk, they only saw it in courts.

And at Publix, it's like $7 a quart.

At Walmart, it's like $4 a quart.

But it's still, I mean, it's a lot.

And she drinks a lot of milk.

Wow.

And then another thing, postpartum, like my midwife was great the whole pregnancy, but then postpartum kind of like disappeared.

So that was also another thing to like deal with, I guess.

Disappeared as in like just stopped showing up?

Yeah.

Did you like reach out to her and say like...

Yeah, we had texted a few times, and like there was one day she was planning on coming and didn't come, and that was the end of it.

And then she just never came back?

Nope.

That is not how I would say any home birth midwife operates that I have ever interacted with.

It's not the norm at all.

I think she had a lot of like life issues going on at the same time.

Uh-huh.

It may have been in that place where like financially, you know, we had paid, baby was delivered.

That's, and I just want to say for people out there, that's very uncommon.

Yes.

Usually with a home birth midwife, your postpartum is a lot more extensive and thorough and detailed.

And with your midwife, it's much more than you would get at your birth center or hospital, for sure.

And that was my experience with my second midwife.

We did a different one for my second pregnancy.

And she was very, very, very attentive, especially with like my previous history from...

Your second midwife.

Yes, from like the last birth and everything.

She was there like 24 hours postpartum.

I want to say three days for some reason.

I know she came back at two weeks, but we also had scheduled a four-week if I needed it, and then six weeks.

Yeah, so you saw her like four or five times after, not just the once.

Yes, and then she was always there through like text or phone.

And then they also check on baby when they check on you, which is nice, because you get that like extra support for a baby.

But yeah, she was the best.

So when did you get pregnant with your second?

How old was your first?

I got pregnant four months postpartum.

Wow.

So I had my first postpartum cycle in November.

It was supposed to start on Christmas, didn't.

I took a test seven days after my missed period.

That was negative.

Waited another week and took another one, and it was positive.

Because, well, your cycles after postpartum, like after having a baby are not regular and not predictable.

So it would be hard to know when exactly you got pregnant and when exactly that test would show up positive.

But positive it was.

Positive it was.

And I had been testing.

So I'm guessing that one wasn't planned either.

No, I was like, what is with, I had texted a midwife friend, and I was like, hey, let's talk about spotty postpartum periods.

What's the deal with that?

And obviously the first question was, are you breastfeeding?

And I'm like, nope.

I stopped at like six weeks or whatever it was.

And then told her when my other one was, and she was like, oh, it's probably just like postpartum hormones.

I wouldn't be worried.

Well, then the next week when it still didn't show up, I peed on another test because I had just done one and it was negative.

Peed on another one and it said positive.

And I had taken an ovulation test with it, and the ovulation test was super bright.

And I was like, oh, I'm just ovulating.

So my period will be soon.

Well, then I looked at the pregnancy test and it had two lines, and I said, no, no, I peed on another one.

And the same thing happened.

And I was like, no.

So I went into the bathroom and I made my husband get up.

And I pointed to the bathroom and I was crying.

And he's like, is there an animal dying in the backyard?

Like, what?

What is happening?

And so he walks in there and he looks at it and he goes, okay.

I was like, how are you so calm about this?

He was like, well, I mean, there's not really anything else to be.

But so I was nervous about announcing this, I can't win.

Just because like the first had been hard, the transition into motherhood had been hard.

I think going from zero to one was harder than going from one to two.

Really?

Yes.

So and because...

Well, you also had a really hard first postpartum.

Yes.

Well, and so being at the Pregnancy Center, I have learned that biologically, when a woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy, it's the same trauma response as if somebody had died.

Hmm.

Because I mean...

Really?

I didn't know that.

Basically, your old self is dying when you realize you're pregnant, because from like biology and physically and spiritually, it's no longer just you.

So like the person you were doesn't exist anymore because it's not just you.

And so like the grieving process of that life and the person that you were before you had kids hit hard, I think.

And so it was a lot going from like me or me and him to me, him, and her.

Especially just with everything while being pregnant.

But I mean, like it wasn't that I was resentful toward her or anything while she was in there.

Like I loved the bonding and everything like that.

So I found out I was pregnant with Lucy in January.

And then I want to say within like a few days of finding out I was pregnant with Lucy, Bo ended up with COVID.

Both of my grandparents ended up with COVID and in the hospital.

They were in the hospital for around a week.

At one point, the doctors were calling, asking about like final wishes for my grandma, who had like a DNR and everything like that.

They didn't think she was going to make it and within like 24 hours, she made a full recovery and my grandpa was being sent home on hospice.

Like the opposite of what you thought was going to happen.

Yes, and he died not even a week later.

So he died basically of starvation.

He had had lung cancer and had had radiation that made it to where he couldn't swallow.

He was supposed to be on medication to help him swallow.

Nobody knew about it, and by the time anybody did, it was too late.

How did your grandma take that?

My grandma still, depending on the day, doesn't remember that he's dead because she does have dementia.

Oh, wow.

So sometimes she'll ask, did Raymond die?

And then we're like, yeah, he's been gone for a little over a year now.

Oh, yeah.

And so I...

So more traumatic things happening while you're pregnant.

Yes, well, in December, when I got pregnant or found out I was pregnant, our dog had died.

So for whatever reason, maybe I'm pregnant, people and animals just end up dying.

In the name of Jesus, let that curse be gone.

It seems to be like the trend.

But yeah, so I didn't tell my grandpa that I was expecting again before he died or anything like that, just because I didn't want to give him a reason to hold on, which and it's really funny on his deathbed.

I took Bo down there to see him one last time before he was like way out of his mind.

And he was like, why couldn't Carlie have named that baby a pretty name?

Oh, instead of Bo.

Yes, it was hilarious.

And my grandpa was like my favorite human.

Like he, I lived with them for four years before I got married.

I'm super close to both of them, but like I was super close to my grandpa.

So then that made for a hard pregnancy as well.

That was awful.

Though like our extended family found out at his visitation that I was pregnant.

Because you were so sick.

Yep.

We like spilled the beans on that.

And with you, I can't hide a pregnancy because I'm just like in the bed throwing up all the time.

It was hard.

But at the same time, like my grandpa was 84, 85 when he died.

I had been there when he had initially started treatments for lung cancer and everything like that.

He literally, I mean, he lived and he took care of my grandma.

He loved his dogs.

He loved his green kids.

He loved his kids like.

Good man.

Yeah.

I mean, he was there for my wedding, which was something my grandma, she told me for years.

I don't think I'll ever make it to your wedding.

But you know, it was fine.

I wasn't prepared.

I'm not sure you're ever prepared for a loss like that, but the abruptness of it all definitely did not help.

Yeah.

Like I was prepared for one thing to happen and the complete opposite happened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my grandma was still alive now.

So she's gone.

She's still kicking.

Anyway, so I found out I was pregnant in January, knew we were going to home birth again, but we were not going with the same midwife.

So I reached out to Patricia, obviously, and was like, who do you recommend?

And she gave me her list of people.

And the midwife I wanted actually had availability.

I had sat down with another CNM and we had talked, but I wasn't sure we were going to click well together, especially since I went to 42 and 3 with Bo.

I knew I would deliver a baby, but I wasn't going to a hospital a 42-week cutoff.

Right.

They don't have a whole lot of bend on that.

So after that, I was like, I appreciate talking to you and everything like that, but I think we're going to go a different way.

So we found our midwife, went and did our ultrasounds, again, like we did previously.

That pregnancy was also fantastic.

Other than the throwing up.

Yes, other than throwing up, which you know, honestly, the best thing about, like the best advice I have about throwing up is pregnancy, is sometimes you're just going to have to surrender.

Like you're going to have to deal with the fact that you're going to throw up and just throw up, relax and do it, and then go on about your day.

I need to put that on an audio clip because this pregnancy, you're now taking care of a baby while you're pregnant with a baby.

Yes.

And there was a lot of guilt with that.

I felt extremely guilty about being pregnant again.

Because I, when I felt bad, I was like, Bo is never going to know life as an only child, and there was so much I wanted to do with her, with just her.

And now I'm running out of time to do it, and I don't want her to feel like I'm replacing her or I love her any less.

Oh, no.

I was very, I had so much guilt.

But you're giving her the gift of a sister.

Yes, that's what people have told me.

That's what they told me, and it's fine now.

And she's going to be so much better off to have a sister and to have that relationship.

Well, I spent that first year literally doing everything I possibly could.

Like, she had her first beach trip.

We went to the Children's Museum.

Like, if there was anything, we went to the mountains for the first time, like, by herself.

I was trying to shove in as much as I could in that one year.

I actually wrote her an apology letter for her first birthday.

She'll probably never get it, but...

But it made you feel better to write it?

So then, you're getting to the end of the pregnancy.

You have a CPM, so you're not worried about going over 42 weeks.

So how far along are you when labor starts?

So with Lucy, I feel like I was the kid that cried wolf with Lucy.

At like 25 weeks, I actually went to UNC thinking I was having preterm, because I was having to go to the bathroom, like, every 15 minutes.

And it was like, I would cramp up and would have to go to the bathroom.

So it was like the only other time I've ever done this was in labor.

The only other time I felt like this was in labor.

I was not in preterm.

They couldn't find anything wrong with me at UNC, which was fantastic.

But we went and got checked out.

I had a doula for that pregnancy, which was not intended.

She actually was doing her doula certification and needed a birth to attend to get it.

And I had saw her, like, mention on Facebook, and I was like, look, I'm having home births.

But if you would like to come and be the doula, you are more than welcome if you want the experience.

And so, you know, we had our prenatals, and she was like, well, do you want me to do this in labor?

Do you want me to do that in labor?

And I'm like, look, home birth laborers are a lot more relaxed than hospital laborers.

Like, you're not going to have to step in and remind me that I don't want an epidural because it's not an option.

Right.

But you might want her to give you some good counterpressure.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

That would have been lovely.

Yeah.

It would have been lovely.

Wait, would have been?

Did that not happen?

It would have been.

So, you know, the duel was fantastic.

The middle wave was fantastic.

Anytime I thought I was in labor, we'd check it out.

At one point, the duel, I came and stayed the night with me and my mom because we thought I might be in labor, but it went away.

So at 41 and 4, I woke up at 6 o'clock in the morning and had to go to the bathroom.

Went in there, nothing happened, went and got back in bed.

And I was just like cramping a little bit, but it was only like 10 or 15 seconds.

Tried to go back to sleep, and I woke up again and had to go to the bathroom.

Nothing happened.

So I texted my mom and I was like, are you up?

And I was like, I'm kind of hurting, like something's off.

And she was like, okay, I'll get ready and come over.

So at 7 o'clock, my mom got there.

I had started my little like contraction app.

So whenever I was filling whatever I was filling, I would tap and it would start the timer and then it would stop it.

It didn't feel like a contraction?

No, just like cramping right in the front, and it was only 10 to 15 seconds.

When you say cramping, do you mean like menstrual cramping?

Very mild, like you know it's there, but I was only filling 10 to 15 seconds of it.

To short.

Yep.

And so as I'm timing these, my app like pops up and it says, you should call your provider.

And I had already texted my midwife and I told her what was going on.

She was like, all right, we'll keep me posted, you know, we'll start getting ready and making our way there, but if something changes, let me know.

And this midwife, my first midwife was an hour and a half away from me.

This time she was only like 38 minutes from my driveway to hers.

So 7 o'clock, my mom gets there.

We call her best friend who was at my first birth.

And Sharon was like, do I have time to take a shower?

And mom's like, I don't know.

She said, I'm not going to take a shower.

I'm just going to come on.

Because I tend to do this thing when I'm in labor where I like start to sway my hips unintentionally.

And that's just what I do.

I like am bouncing around on the balls of my feet and swaying my hips.

Well, that's good.

And that's just, that's what I do.

We went outside and we called my dad, and he was going to mow a yard with my stepmom.

And my mom made the comment, well, you know, if you guys get done and we don't have a baby, y'all should come and hang out.

And I'm like, I look at my watch and I'm like, Cindy, I'm trying to have this done by like 10.

Like, not tonight, by like 10.

And it's like, what time is it?

It's like 7, 7.

And you think this is it?

Yeah, I think it'll be that day, but I'm not exactly sure.

I don't know.

Oh, but the last one came so fast, too.

Yeah, so Matt finally gets up, and I had planned to have a pool like this time.

And so we bought a blow-up bathtub off Amazon.

Had it blown up, and Bo had a bomb bed at the time, so it was on the top bunk in her room.

And Matt was like, do you want me to get that pool down and start filling it up?

And I'm like, no, don't wake her up.

Just fill up the regular bathtub.

So he's doing that while we're outside on the phone with my dad.

We get off the phone with him.

We come inside, and I'm like, all right, I'm going to get in the bathtub.

Bo wakes up, and she comes in there, and she's like, hey, and splashing her hands in the water, just hanging out.

Still texting the midwife, and at this point, I can feel more than 10 to 15 seconds now, and I can feel them coming.

And I remember texting my midwife, and I was like, this is what's happening, this is how quick they're coming.

And again, I want to say they were probably two or three minutes apart.

I don't really remember.

But she's like, all right, we're going to make our way that way.

I'll see you in like 38 minutes.

And I'm like, great, sounds good.

My next contraction hits, and I'm like, I have to go to the bathroom.

My mom is standing there trying to unlock my phone with my face.

Bo is still standing there, and I'm like, move, I have to go to the bathroom.

So my mom picks up Bo, walks out of the bathroom, I sit on the toilet, nothing happens.

The next contraction hits, I stand up and cross my legs and my water breaks.

And I had texted my midwife, and I told her if my water breaks, it's not going to be good, like, there's going to be a baby.

Because when my water breaks, they get super intense after.

Well, yeah, your cushion is gone.

Yes.

So I stood up and my water broke, and I was like, okay.

I had been calling my doula, and I tried to get a hold of her.

She was out in Archdale, and did not hear her phone ring.

So before Sharon got there, so around 7, I called her husband's number, because she was like, I'm giving you this in case of emergency.

Called her husband, and I was like, hey, you know, my name is Carlie.

I'm Cathy's doula client.

She gave me her number for in case of emergencies.

I can't get a hold of her.

Is she with you?

And he was like, no, but I'm like five minutes from home.

I will have her call you back.

So she, like, he gets in there and like talks to her, and she was like, he said, this girl called and said she was your doula client, and that she was in labor, but she doesn't sound like she's in labor.

And she said, no, if she called me, she's in labor.

I have to go.

Because Beau's birth I had on video, and that was the only thing I wanted for Lucy's birth, was I wanted it on video.

Because I didn't want Beau to grow up and be like, oh, well, mom has me on video and not you.

So I was like, it has to be on video.

So anyway, my water breaks.

My doula had literally just gotten there.

My midwife is on her way.

She's like, less than 10 minutes out.

Seven minutes after my water break, there's a baby.

Of course there is.

On the toilet again?

On the toilet again.

So I reached down, I felt her head.

My mom was on the phone with the midwife and was like, it's happening.

I can see the head.

I felt down.

I felt a cord, so I was like, you need to get the cord out from around her neck.

My mom was like, I don't see a cord.

And I was like, feel.

Feel mom.

And so if I hadn't told her that, Lucy would have hit the floor.

Because she is like feeling to see if she feels a cord, the rest of her body comes out.

So your mom caught her?

She came out too fast for me to grab.

To catch her.

Was Matt there?

He was there.

He was in the process of taking his sweatshirt off to come in there to see if there was a cord, if my mom didn't.

And my doula made it there in time to video.

Oh, well good.

Seven minutes from birth.

Wow.

And then the midwife missed it by eight minutes.

Missed it by eight minutes.

So, yeah, both of mine were born in bathrooms on the toilet.

So what time was Lucy born?

754.

Oh, so like this is like less than an hour after you had decided just to like get up and do this.

It was less than two hours.

From like that, wondering if you were in labor to her.

Wow.

Fast, fast, fast.

And with her, I hardly tore.

I don't even think it was considered like a first degree.

We already knew about the breastfeeding thing.

Usually you make like 33% more in each pregnancy after that.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Supposedly, you are supposed to make 33% more.

That's how much the glandular tissue increases.

Huh.

For me, that wasn't really the case.

I think the most I ever got was like two ounces out of one side, and that was waiting hours to pump.

So obviously like the capacity was there to hold more, it's just the gender anymore.

But anyway, I had already had donor milk, so when we figured out that, you know, I started pumping immediately after she was born to try to get what I could get.

But I already had donor milk, so that transition was a lot smoother.

The ringer with her was she had a horrible tongue tie.

So she had a really tight anterior and posterior tongue tie.

So her tongue would not go past her bottom gums.

And she stopped eating.

She would not take out of a cup, out of a syringe.

She would latch to me, but obviously that wasn't doing her a whole lot of good.

So I ended up finding the man bottle was the only thing she would take.

She went to the pediatrician sooner than Beau did because I didn't want the pediatric dentist to have a reason not to see her because we didn't do vitamin K with either one of them.

So with Lucy, I didn't end up getting the vitamin K drops because I wanted the pediatric dentist to do her surgery so that she would eat.

They still made me wait.

How long?

I want to say it was two weeks.

They still made me wait.

Before they would do it?

Before they would do it.

Why?

Because they were concerned that she was going to bleed, and because I didn't do the vitamin K shot.

Oh, because the vitamin K.

Yeah, even though I did the drops, they still would not.

And we're like, you know, if we do it, she won't stop bleeding.

We're going to have to go to Brenner's, and that's a vitamin K bullis, and all this other stuff.

So I took her to a chiropractor, and I took her to a craniosacral therapist until we could get her in to do our lip and tongue tie.

And did that help?

It did help, but the tongue tie has grown back to an extent.

Really?

And like, I mean, they were afraid they were going to have to do hers in two separate parts.

Her lip or her tongue tie was so bad, because she had the very tip of her tongue connected down to the floor, but then back behind it was also a posterior tie that splayed out.

Wow, so which part's grown back?

I want to say the posterior, because the tip of her tongue isn't attached anymore.

So has she like, started having issues feeding again, or is she okay?

No, she will still take bottles fine.

We just recently started, she's had avocado and applesauce.

Oh.

Because she's right at it.

I'm at six months.

And loves to watch us eat, and is constantly trying to grab it.

So I'm like, you know what, here.

Just try it.

You can try it.

So then how did Lucy's postpartum go, other than the tongue tie situation?

Lucy's postpartum was a whole lot better.

My husband took off more time from work that time.

He stayed home about a month this time.

Yes.

It may have not been.

My mom and him were both around a lot more because we knew that the transition was going to be different.

My mom actually stayed like the first week after Lucy was born because we had her at our house instead of my mom's house.

And so she would stay the night or she would take Bo with her to her house.

Well, the transition really wasn't bad.

Like I said, I thought the transition going from one to two would be a lot worse than it was.

My sister-in-law came and hung out a whole lot that second month into the third month.

She hung out a lot.

She was there almost every day.

That's amazing.

So that I wasn't there by myself because I was absolutely terrified to be left alone with both of them.

I was like, I'm not going to be able to do it, and helped me like make that transition.

And I mean, it's gone by.

I think everybody was like, oh, well, all the diapers and all the bottles.

And I'm like, I'm already doing it one time.

Doing it an extra time really isn't that big of a deal.

No, I mean, obviously trying to leave the house takes me longer, and I don't go a whole lot of places alone because you have two that can't.

Yeah, they're both just so little.

Bo is very mobile, and that's part of her problem is because she wants to be down and into everywhere.

And walking everywhere, and then you've got the little one, yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, I say they play really well together, but Lucy doesn't do a whole lot.

I mean, she's playing, and she's coming into her personality.

She's looking at things and grabbing things.

Right, she's laughing, putting everything in her mouth.

Bo walks by and randomly kisses her head and goes, sissy.

So, I mean, nap time, they both climb on top of me on the couch and they go to sleep.

That's just, that's what we do.

That's sweet.

Yes.

And then Lucy and I co-sleep.

I, for some reason, I'm terrified if I put them in their bassinet right beside me.

I'm not going to hear them.

And I think it's for, like, hitting me or whatever.

That wakes you up?

Yeah, or like the slightest movement.

I don't know.

I wish I could sleep deeper than I do, honestly.

Indy, our youngest, is in and out of the bed with me throughout the night.

It's like sometimes he's in the bed with me for a few hours, and then sometimes I'll put him, you know, in the little co-sleeper next to our bed.

And then other times, like, he'll start there, and then I'll put him right back if I'm awake enough.

And other times, he just spends the whole night in the bed.

Like, it just, it's all over the place.

But I will tell you, even if he's in the co-sleeper, which is, like, you know, right beside our bed, I hear every little noise he makes.

And I will say, until our kids transition to their own rooms, which has been different times for each of our kids, but until they're in their own room, I am the lightest sleeper in the whole world, and I hardly, I rarely get into any kind of deep type of sleep.

So it is, it's the long haul.

I'm tired all the time, but it's fine.

Yes.

It's fine.

So those were two pretty wild stories, two very quick, unplanned, but special blessings from the Lord, and lots of emotional, dramatic things happening during your pregnancies, and then getting slammed with the IGT during postpartum, and then the aloof midwife first go around.

That was strange.

I have to ask a few questions.

With all of that happening, how did that affect your faith life?

So I mean, I think being pregnant in general gives you a stronger bond.

I feel like being pregnant and going through pregnancy and birth, well, in my case, it made me realize that my body most definitely was created to do that.

And that when the Bible says you were fearfully and wonderfully made, that's true, and that our bodies were not designed flawed.

Obviously, at some points, I was not really sure how I was going to get through any of it.

And at some points, I was really angry at different aspects.

Like angry at God?

Oh, yeah.

My mother-in-law acting the way she did.

All the loss we experienced while pregnant, that's supposed to be one of the most exciting times in people's lives.

And our worlds were constantly just being flipped upside down.

I think I was really angry at the fact that my father-in-law was so excited to be a grandfather and never got to.

That was a lot.

But I think it also taught me that when you think you can't go anymore, you definitely can.

I've met a lot of wonderful people throughout my pregnancies, especially all of these women that have fed my kids at this point.

I know there was one day I was about to run out of milk, and a girl I actually went to church with in elementary school had messaged me on Facebook and was like, hey, how do I go about donating milk?

And I was like, you know, it's weird.

I was just about to run out and was trying to figure out where I was going to find milk.

It was kind of this thing is like the Lord really does work in mysterious ways sometimes.

And then also was like the whole journey with the pregnancy center opening up after having babies and like getting into birth work after leaving birth work.

It kind of all just like went full circle.

And realizing that what you go through has a purpose.

And at some point, it all connects back to each other.

Yeah, the Lord can use it.

He can use it all.

So you, we know you're not in L&D anymore and that you left that, but now you're volunteering at the like a pregnancy care center in Burlington.

How do you say it?

Because I know we have one in like Greensboro and Winston.

So the one I volunteer at is a nonprofit Christian organization called the Arms of Grace Pregnancy Resource Center.

And it is geared towards women experiencing unplanned pregnancies who are abortion vulnerable.

So by providing resources and support and education to these women, we're trying to show them that abortion is not their only option when it comes to their pregnancy.

And so, you know, we do anything from like, we're non-medical, so we can help them do a self-administered pregnancy test.

We can get them their first ultrasound for free so that they can actually like see baby and see that like that's your baby.

Yeah.

We go through helping create adoption plans and help like putting them with adoption agencies if that's what they choose to do.

If they want a parent, then we provide parent education classes, birth classes, how to feed your baby class, different resources.

If they're in domestic situations, we get them resources for that.

If they need housing, social services, and then we support women up to two years.

Postpartum.

Yes, we have like physical items for up to two years.

That's wonderful.

Yes.

And I am starting a postpartum support group for up to two years.

Oh, cool.

Yes, I think the first one will be on April.

In Burlington?

Yes, in Burlington.

I'm excited.

Cool.

But that kind of just had all of this baby stuff.

And I know that like having a baby can be hard, and needing stuff can be hard.

So I dropped a few things off at the Pregnancy Center, and then had like walked in one day, and had started talking to the director, and we just hit it off.

And so...

You started volunteering there.

Yeah, I started volunteering, and hopefully that's turning into more.

So I've started the postpartum group that should be kicking off in April.

Through that center.

Through that center.

They're paying for my DULA certification.

Oh, cool.

To hopefully be their DULA.

And then in May, we are gearing up for our Walk for Life.

That's wonderful.

That's so cool.

I didn't realize there was one in Burlington, so that's wonderful.

So if you were dropping baby stuff off, does that mean you and your husband think that you're done having babies?

Or what does that mean?

Not necessarily.

I try to tell people that I don't have an answer to that question, because the last time I answered it, I was humbled really fast.

Obviously, I'm not good at planning pregnancies.

I was going to say this is the longest you've gone without getting pregnant.

Yeah, so.

Since you got married, so.

Yeah.

So we have talked about having more kids.

I think it's really just going to depend.

Right now, our house is only two bedrooms.

It's like 800 square feet, and that's like a tight fit for the four of us.

And I also would like for these two to get a little bit older and to enjoy them before going through this whole rat race again.

Well, thank you for coming here.

Thank you for sharing your stories.

I'll link your pregnancy care center.

I'm sorry, Arms of Grace in Burlington.

That way, anyone in the Burlington area knows about it and can check out more information about it.

Thanks again for joining us today.

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