067 - The Significance of Choosing a Great Midwife and Doula (with Rachel Leyland) [Water Birth | Accidental Unassisted Homebirth]

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SHOW NOTES:

The key to getting through a long early labor is distraction and rest! Unfortunately, Rachel, along with most first time moms, was too excited to do either of these things, and her focus on her already long labor made it feel like it was lasting an eternity. Thankfully she learned a thing or two between her two births, and her second experience was much swifter and more empowering, even though it was just as intense. Our focus makes a world of a difference in our labors, as well as where our trust lies. Hear today how Rachel was about to put her trust in God, and how it impacted each of her experiences.

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TRANSCRIPT:

It was so hard.

It was the hardest thing I had ever done.

But also, like, look how amazing it is that we can, like, bring forth life from our bodies and that we can, like, connect to these tiny humans that are our humans.

Like, we created these little children, or God did, through us.

And, like, birth and pregnancy does not have to be this horrible, scary experience.

Ultimately, every bit of my hard labor with my daughter and every bit of depression that I had was 1,000% worth it to have her.

Hi, I'm Kayla Heater, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of five children, Christian childbirth educator and doula, and your host of the Surrendered Birth Stories Podcast, where we share God-centered birth stories, evidence-based birth education, and our pursuit of surrendering our birth plans to God.

Let's get started.

Hey, everyone.

Hope your week is off to a great start, and I hope you all had such a wonderful Thanksgiving weekend.

I know for us, it was so nice because we just felt like I had four family Sabbath days in a row, where we just all got to be together, and no big agenda, and it was just a lot of fun, family time, great food, great fun, great memories.

It was wonderful.

And the worst part about it was that Ohio State lost the big game on Saturday.

I'm not a big sports fan, but I am an Ohio State football fan.

And this game was like, you know, we were expected to win it by a lot.

We should have won it by a lot, and we lost by three points.

And it was so sad.

And it, oh, anyways, if you're an Ohio State or Michigan fan, you would understand.

But besides that little part, the rest of the weekend was fabulous.

I am really tired, though, actually just got back from teaching our last session, our last two sessions, Ashley.

We did a double header tonight, missed last week's session in our childbirth course because so many people were out of town.

So we rescheduled it to this week, and we did two back to back, and five hours of childbirth class.

So it felt like a marathon, but we did it, and those couples are ready to go have their babies.

So excited for them.

And if you are getting ready to have a baby in the spring, we would love to have you join us for our January childbirth class.

We're starting another group class in January, which will be here, gosh, in less than a month now, which is wild.

So if you're interested in that class, and you're local to the triad, please let me know so I can get you in there and signed up and make sure you get in.

So that would be great for babies who were due maybe end of February, March, April, May, maybe even early June.

So those spring babies, let us know.

I would love to have you come to our class.

Now, let's get into this week's episode.

The key to getting through a long early labor is distraction and rest.

Unfortunately, Rachel, along with most first-time moms, was too excited to do either of those things, and her focus on her already long labor made it feel like it was lasting an eternity.

Thankfully, she learned a thing or two between her two births, and her second experience was much swifter and more empowering, even though it was just as intense.

Our focus makes a world of a difference in our labors, as well as where our trust lies.

Here today, how Rachel was able to put her trust in God and how it impacted each of her experiences.

Well, welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Kayla Heater, and I have Ms.

Rachel with me today.

Rachel, why don't you take a second to let us get to know you, introduce yourself, family, day-to-day life.

Tell us about you.

Well, I'm Rachel, and I'm a mother of two.

My first is two and a half, and her name is Cara, and then I have a son who is nine months old at this point.

And I've been married for four and a half years, I think.

And I've been, I grew up in a Christian home, but I've, I feel like I have had a deeper understanding of the Gospel for like, since I believe like 2018, 2019.

So yeah, and I also am a birth doula, and I just love birth and pregnancy and all the things so much.

And so thanks for having me.

I'm so excited.

Well, of course, I love birth and pregnancy and all the things too.

So really, I can totally relate to that.

Yes.

Well, then let's just take it back to your first story then.

So what was it like finding out you were pregnant for the first time?

Yeah.

So I, before I got married, I had literally no idea about what birth was or anything like that, or pregnancy.

I had no idea.

And so we met some friends who had a family, and that really intrigued me.

And like, I mean, I've known families before, but she was also birth doula, and she had home birth.

And I was like, wow, that's really interesting.

Like, I had never really heard about home water births before that point.

And then that's kind of what I started learning about pregnancy and birth then.

And then when we got married, I was way more excited to have a baby because I'd learned about like, wow, like my body is made to do this.

It's not like some scary thing that I have to dread and be fearful of.

It's something that I can be educated on and like know what to expect to some degree.

And I was so excited to have a baby, so excited to experience pregnancy, which I never ever thought I would be the person to say that.

And so when we were wanting a baby, and so I was expecting the pregnancy test to stay positive, and it did, and I was pretty sick for the pregnancy, but I was so excited.

So it wasn't like a huge surprise for us.

It was like hope-filled expectancy that we would have a baby.

But yeah, so that's kind of how we found out.

I love that.

Well, and I love you wanted to have a baby, and you tried to have a baby, and then you got pregnant.

Awesome.

Yeah.

So because of all the education that you had through your friend and learning about everything, what were your plans?

Who did you go seek for your care, and what kind of birth were you planning and all that?

Yeah, so at the time, right now, we live in North Carolina, right?

But at the time, I was in Illinois, and we had plans to move down to North Carolina.

So by the time we got to North Carolina, I was right into my second trimester already.

But my hope was that I would have a home birth no matter where I was, mostly because of the influence of my friend who had all three of her babies at home in the water.

And after all of my learning about what birth could be, I just was so set on having a home birth.

I was so, so, so determined.

And so then when I came down here, the laws in Illinois are very different than they are down here.

So I had a lot of anxiety because I learned about just what the state recognizes, what the state doesn't recognize in terms of midwives.

And it seemed very intimidating to me, especially because I didn't know anybody at all.

We had no community and it was really hard, but I ended up being able to find a midwife, like a CNM, to support my birth, thankfully.

And so that's kind of, I had to do a lot of digging and like join Facebook groups and ask around.

And I reached out to a lot of different home birth midwives, but I found one that had availability somehow.

So, and I'm literally so grateful.

I remember interviewing with them and they were trying to like see where I was at in terms of like how determined am I to have a home birth.

And I was like, there's no other option for me.

Like this is what I'm going to do.

Of course, like if it's a healthy pregnancy and like if everything goes well, like this is what I am going to do.

And as a first time mom, I feel like that was kind of their way of being like, okay, like we can do this with you because I was so very determined.

So like there wasn't any other option in my mind.

So they're over in like the Durham Raleigh area.

At the time, we were living in Chapel Hill.

So then I guess how did the rest of your pregnancy go then?

So I guess it was smooth.

It was low risk.

You didn't have any complications or anything?

Yeah, no complications at all.

It was pretty smooth.

I mean, I was pretty sick the first trimester.

Like I was throwing up like almost every day.

But then the rest of my pregnancy, from what I remember, it was very smooth.

And another, I guess another thing too is like, before I got pregnant, I was lifting regularly.

And then when I got pregnant with my first, I stopped because I guess I wasn't like as educated as I could have been in terms of like working out during pregnancy.

And I was like, oh, it's my first.

So I'll just like, I won't, which I wish that I would have continued my working out to fitness while I was pregnant, but I didn't.

So that, I feel like that kind of added to like, I had a lot of, I struggled a lot with like depression in pregnancy and then postpartum as well.

Because like the severe lack of community that we had at the time, and it just like deeply affected me and it was really rough.

But so community is so, so important, especially when you're about to have a baby.

Because I felt so alone and yeah.

So I think, I think just like being so far removed was made it very difficult, especially towards the end of pregnancy, to like not have anybody else in the same season of life, not really have any really good friends who can help me through it.

And so that part was really difficult getting through postpartum and just the end of pregnancy.

Yeah, I can imagine.

So what initiated the move to North Carolina then?

Well, so because we were pregnant, we weren't with our family.

That's not where my husband and I grew up.

We were just living there, and we were like, oh, well, we're about to have baby.

We want to be close to family.

So like grandparents can be around.

And so my mom moved down to North Carolina because she was living in New Hampshire at the time, because I'm from New Hampshire.

Oh, okay.

I know.

I'm sorry.

It's a whole thing.

But we all decided to move to North Carolina together.

And that's the biggest reason why we moved to North Carolina was to be closer to family.

So did you have any pre-existing family in North Carolina?

Yeah.

So my husband has his family in their Western North Carolina area.

And we thought like we'll just start in the Raleigh area, and then we'll kind of like assess as we move forward.

So.

Oh, well, I was just curious.

I was like, OK, well, what made you move then?

OK, well, then take us to the end of pregnancy.

Take us to the beginning of labor.

How far along were you?

How did everything start?

Yeah.

So I started labor like two days before.

It was three days before her due date.

Her estimated due date.

I lost my Meeks plug in the middle of the night, and then I started like cramping pretty regularly.

And I was like, I made the rookie mistake of getting really, really, really excited when that was happening.

I was like, oh my gosh, I think this is labor.

It was in the middle of the night, and I got out of bed, and I did all the things you shouldn't do when you're trying to like labor at home.

And I got way too...

You got out of bed.

That was the mistake.

Yes.

I went to the bathroom, and then I lost my mucous blood, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is it.

And then I thought they were too uncomfortable to go back to sleep.

So that's why I stayed up, but I was looking back, and I definitely could have gone back to bed.

But I was just so excited.

And then I called my midwife, because again, I was just like, oh my gosh, this is happening.

And she's like, you should go back to bed.

Yes, you should.

Yeah.

So then I got back into bed, and was able to sleep a little bit.

And then, you know, they were consistent.

But they were probably not more than like 10 minutes apart.

But they weren't ever closer than that.

So like they were consistent throughout the day.

And then they started to get very slowly more intense.

And like, another thing is like, I didn't really distract myself very well in early labor at all.

So it felt like so long.

An eternity, right?

It felt very long.

So I was texting my doula, and then she came in the afternoon, or the, so I lost my weeks plug this night.

And then the next evening, she came over to just kind of see how things are.

She ended up staying, but things didn't really pick up until way later, sadly.

So we went outside, we did some curb walking.

And honestly, I was still in early labor by the time my doula came.

So it was a long, it was a long stretch for her.

But so like eventually, we went inside after our walk and I got on the toilet.

But our bathroom was like very small, and I felt so claustrophobic, like sitting on the toilet.

I felt like the walls were going to cave in on me.

It was just so hard as if the toilet was like is bad enough.

Right.

And then I got into the shower and I felt the same way.

It was just like so uncomfortable and our shower was tiny.

And at that point, because I remember hearing my birth instructor, we did birth classes and everything.

And I remember her saying, by the time you say, I can't do this anymore, then the baby's going to be coming.

And so at that moment, I was like, I want this to be over.

So I was just saying, I can't do this anymore.

I want this to be over.

And my doula called the midwife and then they came by.

And we had set the tub up and everything already just because we didn't want to have to worry about it.

And the midwives come, or one of them comes to check on me, and she does a cervical check.

And she's like, oh, you're like four or five.

And I was like, okay, great.

But I thought I would be like way further along.

Like nine or ten, please.

And she's like, no, you're like four or five.

You just hang out, keep on laboring.

And I think I was kind of getting into active labor at this point, because what they were saying, I didn't even care for anymore.

I was just kind of like getting in the zone.

And then I can't even remember how many hours went by.

It was probably only a couple, but the other midwife came in, and then she did another circle check.

And she's like, oh, you're only like a four.

She's not a five.

And I was really upset about that.

Yeah.

And looking high inside, I'm like, I wish you would not have said that in front of me while I feel like I'm working so hard.

And it was very hard to continue laboring.

Like I was struggling and I was so tired.

And so she's like, why don't you just try to relax, try to sleep.

I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, I cannot, how am I supposed to sleep right now?

I just can't, like that's impossible.

And then there was a section of time, it was probably like maybe an hour's worth of time that I was listening to some Christian hypnobirthing and my husband was like right next to me and then my doula was standing next to me and they were trying to help me and support me through it, but I just did not want to hear anybody talking to me and I just, I wanted to be over.

I was so tired and I was so done.

But I must say like the Christian hypnobirthing really helped me kind of like use the time wisely and focus my mind on what was the most important thing, which was like, God is giving me all the strength that I need to birth this baby.

And I wanted it to end like right then and there.

But in my mind, I kept on thinking like, Lord, you know when this baby's gonna be born.

And I hate this and this isn't easy.

But Lord, like, you know, and you hold this baby in your hands.

And like it was just a continual of me like kind of letting go.

Like, Lord, your timing is perfect.

Your timing is perfect.

Even though I didn't really want to believe it in my heart because I wanted my baby to be born, I just kept on like giving it to God.

And, you know, every single surge, I was like, okay, God, like, I don't know when this baby's gonna be born, but you do, you do.

And so it was just, it was a very hard, very hard labor.

So we've got mucus plug came out first night, your doula midwife came this second night.

What time are we talking now?

This is probably around midnight.

Okay.

It felt like an eternity of just laboring.

And I think what made it worse was, I'm in active labor now, and everyone went to sleep.

Like my husband, Lord bless him, he fell asleep right next to me.

And my doula, my doula, she went into the other room, and she went to take a nap.

While you were in active labor?

Oh, no.

I have never done that at a birth.

I know doulas would do that.

But especially at home birth, you know?

Right.

I mean, if you really felt that exhausted, I would have called a backup doula to come and help, like if you felt like you literally couldn't keep your eyes open.

But that's usually when I just make coffee and drink more coffee.

You can't leave the mother alone.

Oh, my goodness.

I'm so sorry.

Well, we won't say who that doula is, but I'm assuming you never used her again.

Oh, no.

No.

And I really struggled postpartum, too, because I felt really bad.

Like, I felt really bad to say, like, I really did not appreciate you as my doula.

You left me.

Yeah.

No, you left me to do that.

Like, that's the point of you being there, is to support me.

Right.

To help me not feel the way that I felt, because I felt so alone.

And it was kind of, honestly, thinking about it, it's kind of like a pinnacle of, like, how I felt in pregnancy is, like, so alone and, like, without anybody.

And that's how I felt, like, at the peak of my, like, active labor is just, like, alone.

And, yeah, I have a hard time even now.

Like, sometimes I think about it, because, like, I'm a doula, and I support my moms, and I would never, never, never go to sleep while your mom's in active labor.

Especially a home birth, especially, like, unmedicated, like.

Right.

I mean, I've had a client get, like, when they get an epidural, and then they're sleeping, then I can go prop myself up against the chair and try and lean over and take a nap.

But no, no, no, never would I go in another room and lay down and take a nap during a birth.

Oh, okay.

Wow.

I'm really, really sorry.

That's awful.

It was.

It was really sad.

But, I mean, I've had a little baby, and it was amazing.

But at the time, yeah, at the time, it's like, it's hard to not be really sad about that.

Yeah.

Because I think it would have changed.

It would have made the experience a little different if I had someone who was like, you can do this.

You can do this.

I'm here with you.

I'm with you.

Through every contraction, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, when did everybody wake up?

Eventually, my water broke, and I felt this huge gush, and then everybody was like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

And there was some meconium in the waters, and so then they wanted to keep checking on baby every 15 minutes just to make sure everything was continuing to look good.

But after that happened, it seemed to get, obviously, when the waters break, things get a lot more intense, and so they started to get a lot more intense.

But still, they were like, all right, just try to sleep more.

And I'm like, okay, whatever that means.

Sleep.

These midwives, I mean, they were wonderful in a lot of ways, but there were also things I'm like, God shouldn't have done that.

Things you don't say to a mom and laborer.

But at that point, I just was on my hands and knees on our bed.

It was like push up against the wall, and then our birth pool was in our bedroom right next to the bed.

And so I was just like laboring on my hands and knees for basically the whole night I was there.

Because it was the only place I felt like was actually comfortable for me.

But if I had my doula, like asking what station the baby was in, maybe we can try some different positions to help the baby navigate through the pelvis easier.

This would have been a little bit different.

I don't know.

But that didn't happen.

I was just in the same position for all night.

And then around, it was probably around 4 a.m.

that I started to feel like pressure.

I literally was like, I literally yelled so loud like, I have to poop, or I'm pushing.

I think I said, I'm pushing.

And it felt like how they deprived it, like the biggest bowel movement ever.

And I yelled that because I felt, it seemed like black and white, like the contraction, one contraction was this way, and the next was totally different.

And I felt like my body literally bearing down.

And then they came in, everybody rushed in, and then they did a cervical check, and I was nine centimeters.

And I couldn't even comprehend it.

Like I was so exhausted.

And they were like trying to get me up and into the pool.

And I just like, I remember feeling so distant from the moment because I was so exhausted.

And I wasn't even excited that I was nine centimeters.

I was just like, I don't care.

Like I just wanted to be done with this.

So my husband got me and helped me get into the tub.

As soon as I got into the tub, my midwife was like, okay, just if you feel your body is like pushing, go ahead and work with your body.

And at that point, I was like, I was like so relieved that I could like start pushing.

And then I was also really, really quiet.

I was very, very quiet while I was pushing because I had no energy to be loud.

Like I had no energy left to make any type of noise.

And so I think like I didn't start bearing down until being in the tub for probably like half an hour.

And then I like turned around, sat like lean back, and my midwife was like, Hey, do you want to fill your baby?

Like your baby's head is right there.

And then as soon as I reached my hand down, like I never thought that I would want to do that.

But when I did that, I just like will always, it's ingrained in my mind, the memory of like first touching my daughter's head and like feeling her soft hair.

And that helped me push her out.

And it gave me the energy.

It gave me what I needed to push her out and to feel connected to her too.

Because during labor, I was just like, so I felt very not connected to her, if that makes sense.

Yeah, so.

And then her head was starting to crown, and my midwife was like, okay, so now this next push, don't try to blast her out.

Don't try to like push her out in one push.

Just try to take it slow.

And I did not do that at all.

Even in the video, you could see like, I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah.

And then the next push, she's out.

Like she's coming out.

Like I did not push her slowly, because I.

Wait, so had her head already come out, and then you were pushing the rest of her out?

You hadn't even done that part.

You just shot out her whole body.

Okay.

In one push, yeah.

She like started to crown, and that's when they told me to like.

Let it go slowly and stretch you.

And I was like, heck no, I'm sorry, but like I was so tired, and I just needed to have her like in my arms, and I did not want to wait any longer.

And I did have a second degree tear, so I'm like, you know, they were trying to prevent that.

But at the same time, I was like, I don't care.

I just want to hold her.

I don't want to see her, you know?

So she was born in the water, and she let out one big cry, but then, like, I think she was still kind of like, you know, babies take time to get used to being out of the womb and in the air and all that stuff, but because of the meconium, they were a little bit more worried about it, and I was too.

And so it took her a while to, like, actually let out a cry, but she was fine.

She was fine after that.

Her cord was really, really short, so I had to keep her, like, down on my belly.

And then they had to, like, all...

Everybody had to lift me out of the tub and, like, put me on the bed.

And I didn't know what I was doing at all.

I had no idea.

And I was so tired, so that was, like, difficult, you know, holding her and everything.

But I was also so relieved that she was finally in my arms and so relieved that, I mean, I wasn't having labor contractions anymore but then I was having postpartum contractions.

But I don't know.

It was really special.

But also, like, I don't know, looking back, it's so crazy because I'm like, wow, yeah, you've had no idea what you're doing.

But like, that's part of the process.

It's part of the journey is that you have, you're forced to know how to do what you need to do.

And the first night, I remember the first day because she was born around like 5 a.m.

It was the day before my due date that she was born.

And I just remember looking at her, and I just was in disbelief that like, I cannot believe this child was in my womb for nine months.

Like, it was just, it was a crazy feeling.

But yeah.

It is.

That is a wild feeling.

But you did it.

I did.

Long first labor and all.

You did it.

I did it.

I think in just, in all labor, like you come to a point of like, I can't do this anymore.

And your body's like, actually, you don't have any other way but to.

You don't have any choice but to.

And I think that's how God uses, I mean, a lot of labors to form a mother, like make a mother of a child, is to like get through the hardest thing you've ever been through, and then be like, wow, I couldn't have done that without God designing me to do that, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

So then, you mentioned you feel like you had postpartum depression due to like lack of community and feeling alone and all of that.

Did you do anything to combat that at all?

I didn't know, so I had no idea that I actually had depression at all.

I was just sad all the time, and I wasn't around other women in that who were also going through the same thing either, so it was hard for me to even like know what that was.

And then it wasn't until several months post-partum that I had one of my really close friends visit us, and then I was laughing with her, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have not laughed like that in a year.

It's been so long.

And then I started to think more like, oh my gosh, I'm not myself, I've been really sad.

And not necessarily spiraling thoughts, but it's been more like, I'm just not myself, and I don't find joy in the things that I always have found joy in.

And it's just such a weird internal struggle of being just like not seeing life in things.

So it was a long time until I realized that.

And then when I realized that, I was kind of getting into community in Burlington, in Greensboro, and all that stuff.

And that's when I started to know moms, and that's when we started to go to church, and like no good church community.

And that's when kind of things started to shift.

So I never got so bad where I felt like I needed to like talk to a therapist or something about it, but it was at the point where I realized like, wow, I have been off.

And I think even just admitting that something has been off was like so, so helpful.

That's right.

That's the first step, admitting something is wrong.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad you were able to then recognize that, find community, find the people around you, church, friends, all that.

That's really good.

So curious, at what point in this process did you become a doula then?

And why did you become a doula?

Yeah.

So I technically got my doula training a couple months after my daughter was born.

But before that, I had done a lot of research on birth and all the things.

So I felt already really equipped.

But doing the certification and everything was just a couple months after she was born.

And then I started reaching out to local doulas.

And that's when I met Christian, who I work with now.

And I started working with her and going to births and supporting moms.

And I just wanted to, I feel like in our culture, it's so birth, especially me, before I learned everything about pregnancy and things, I just had this huge negative view on birth and pregnancy.

And I just thought it was like, the typical cultural thing is like, oh, birth, you're going to hate labor.

Labor is the worst thing you've ever experienced.

It's the most painful thing.

It's the worst thing you'll ever go through.

And then even just having children is a burden.

I just feel like culture has such negative stigmas about these things.

And I was like, how do we change that?

Especially after having my daughter, I was like, yes, it was so hard.

It's the hardest thing I've ever done.

But also, look how amazing it is that we can bring forth life from our bodies and that we can connect to these tiny humans that are our humans.

We created these little children, or God did, through us.

I just thought it was amazing, and I wanted to share that wonder and amazement with other moms and show them that birth and pregnancy does not have to be this horrible, scary experience.

But it can be, yes, there are some scary things about it.

But ultimately, every bit of my hard labor with my daughter and every bit of depression I had was 1000% worth it to have her and to know her and to see her become a little grow up into a human that she is.

So I was just so passionate about helping mom see that at birth does not have to be this horrible thing, but it's actually wonderful and beautiful and sweet.

And I think that challenges grow us.

And like 1 Peter says that even though the trials of various kinds will be proved through fire, and it'll strip things away that are useless and make things stronger.

And so I kind of feel like that's with labor, like you go through this really hard trial, but in the end, it makes you stronger, and it makes you see like, wow, like I can do so much more than I think that I can.

And like God is so much stronger than I think that I am.

In Isaiah 40, 31, it says, but they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength.

They shall mount up with wings like eagles.

They shall run and not grow weary.

They shall walk and not faint.

And I just think like going through labor made me draw so close to that.

And seeing that even though I thought I was done for, even though I thought I was like, I was the end of myself, like God is the one that supplied me with every bit of strength that I needed.

He supplied me with every bit of energy that I needed.

He drew close to me in my labor.

And.

That's beautiful.

So then you started attending births then before you had your son.

Yeah.

Hmm.

So then you got, I don't know if you felt like this, but I did the same thing as you.

I became a doula after my first, a little bit longer.

She was over a year old when I got into it.

Then I attended several births before I had my second, my son.

And I feel like it gave me a lot of perspective, desires and visions and thoughts and opinions on how I wanted my second birth to go.

Like that's my experience too.

Like being able to see, I went to a lot of hospital births and it, if anything, I mean, there can be a great hospital birth.

If moms choose that, then that's to each their own, right?

But like it may, it reinforced the desire to have home births for every child that I have.

I want to be in my home, and I want to feel safe in every aspect that you possibly can when I'm bringing forth my child.

Like I feel like it's such a vulnerable space, and I don't want any strangers coming in.

I want to be comfortable.

I don't want to have to leave, like a building two days after I gave birth to my child to then like come home.

And I want to stay in my bed, and I want to get in bed immediately after birth and just cuddle with my baby and not worry about anything else.

That's a big reason why I chose home birth is because I wanted to be completely safe in my environment and feel completely in control of my environment.

And that's how I felt.

I mean, with both births especially, and the birth of my son, I literally say like I would do it a million times because it was just wonderful.

So.

Hmm.

Well, let's hear about that wonderful story.

How old was your daughter when you got pregnant with your son?

She was 13 months.

13 months.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

And was this one just as hoped for, wanted, planned for, tried for as the first?

Well, we, I had no idea I was pregnant.

So...

Oh.

I mean, we were, I was really ready.

I was like, I want to have a baby.

And my husband would have been, he was so happy.

But in his mind, he was expecting at least a couple months later.

Yeah.

But that didn't happen.

And so it was a big surprise for us.

Like, I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant.

And so we took a test together, and he was like, we were both shocked.

I was so surprised, but also so excited.

Now, were you shocked because you didn't think you could get pregnant, or were you shocked that it just happened that fast if you stopped preventing, or what made it so shocking?

Well, so I had been tracking my cycle, and according to my days that I ovulate, and according to when we had intimacy, it was before the point where I had had an egg fertilized, if that makes sense.

And like, I have it on my calendar.

Like, this day, we should have been like five, six, seven days.

I think it was seven days before I should have ovulated.

And then that's why I was so shocked, because like, we were, I was keeping track of it, and then somehow, because I think it's like, the sperm live up to like five to seven days after.

Yeah, but I hear those are only girls.

Anyways, that's a whole nother debate.

Because you clearly had a boy.

Yeah, we did have a boy.

Yeah.

So, I don't know.

It was, it was crazy.

Maybe it happened after.

Maybe you just ovulated really, really late, and you thought you were like out of the ovulation window, but then actually you were just on the tail end of it or something.

Maybe, yeah.

I've looked it over quite a few times, and I'm like, I don't know how this happened, but the Lord will.

But God said, it's time for you to have a baby.

Yes, yes it is.

Okay, so how did that pregnancy go?

So different.

Night and day, different.

In terms of all aspects, including emotionally, like with my daughter, I was very emotional, very sad.

I had some depression.

And then my son, there's a lot of different factors with how I took on both pregnancies, but I was really angry my second.

Like I was, I struggled with like a lot of, I don't want to say rage, but I was very, I got very quickly angered over things that like truly were so minuscule, you know?

And so, and my first reaction is anger versus when I was with my daughter, it was more like feeling a lot of emotions.

So some people, I've done research and like, I guess like when you are pregnant with a boy, a woman's body does have more testosterone and it affects women.

Sometimes it doesn't at all.

And I think for me, it definitely affected me because as soon as he was born, it was like, oh, I have myself again.

And it wasn't like, so it wasn't so such extreme rage.

That's why I don't like using rage because it's a very strong word for how I felt.

But I was just really quick to anger and I knew it was hormone related because it was bizarre.

So that, in that aspect, it was very different.

And another aspect, it was different because I continued to lift and run in my second pregnancy.

And so after my daughter was born a year postpartum, I finally got back into lifting and stuff because I just really love lifting and I love being fit.

I done a lot of research and then I was like, oh, like I'm going to keep on doing this for as long as I'm doing it with the right things in mind.

Like obviously listen to my body, but also focusing on the most important parts of strength in pregnancy and then knowing when to adjust when the load is too heavy or I'm doing too much.

So there's a balance on how to do that, but I was determined to, and I honestly think it affected how my emotional state throughout pregnancy too.

I was so much more happy.

I mean, plus the ease of anger, but like I felt so much better about like my body and I felt so much stronger.

And overall, like I just felt so good after being able to work out and run throughout most of pregnancy.

And I also know that it's like really good for a baby as well to like, it's good for their lungs, it's good for a lot of different developmental things, the way that their like blood flow and all the things.

And it's good for me too.

It's good for me physically and emotionally.

So that was very, very different because, like I said, I did nothing with my daughter.

I went on walks, but nothing else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Were you still sick in this pregnancy, like throwing up and stuff?

No.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm always amazed when I hear that.

I'm always amazed when someone was sick with one and then not the next one, because I've had the opposite experience of that.

So I'm always like, wow, that's amazing.

Gives me hope.

Gives me hope.

I was squeezy, but like here and there, I might've like dry heaved a few times, but it was nothing in comparison to like when I was pregnant with my daughter.

Well, good.

That's great.

So then, okay, let's see.

You were in the like Raleigh-Durham area, and then you'd since moved to Burlington, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So a little bit west.

So then did you find a different midwife at that point?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

It contributes to another reason why this birth is just this labor, pregnancy.

Everything was so much better because of the provider that I chose.

Now, nothing against CNMs.

I think they're wonderful, and I think a lot of them are wonderful.

But there's just a big difference between the midwifide shows versus the CNMs that I have met.

So at first, I hired a CNM.

And I hired her at first because we thought insurance might be able to cover some, but also we're familiar with CNMs.

That's what you did at the first time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, so I literally went to two appointments.

By this time, I've talked to her several times.

And she forgot that it was my second pregnancy.

She forgot a lot of things about me and my desires and if I had a water birth for my first.

A lot of important details that first baby versus second baby is kind of a big deal.

And for you to forget that after talking to me over Zoom and in person a few times by this point, and you're like forgetting.

And then also she had been taking on a lot of clients every month.

And she talked to me about maybe another midwife showing up to my birth because she's not sure if she'd be out of town or not.

And I'm like, I feel like I'm just like another person in a lot of your clients and I'm not really special to you.

And so that's when I considered switching and I switched to a CPM instead of a CNM.

And I will hopefully never have to hire a CNM again, just because my CPM is just wonderful.

And the way that she approaches birth is so to the bones, like this is how women are guilt.

This is how we do things, you know, like pregnancy and birth.

Like it is a completely natural thing that women are made to do.

And she's like so deeply rooted and so confident in that.

And it just like radiates from her, I think.

And so it made me feel so comforted and assured and encouraged, and it made me feel important to her.

And like I felt her confidence in me so much throughout every prenatal.

So I decided to switch, and I'm so glad that I did, because my pregnancy was so wonderful, and I never felt medicalized pressure, if that makes sense.

Like I've met quite a few CNMs, and of course, they're wonderful, and I love that they can go to home births and support moms in doing home births.

But for me, there's just something different about a CPM whose experience is almost solely holistic in caring for moms, but then a CNM has gone through nursing school and had that.

So for me personally, I was just like, I love the holistic.

I'm trying to be careful, because I really truly love CNMs, and I love what they do.

But also there's a slight difference in how they operate.

Right.

There's a slight, because their background training is slightly different, because the CPMs never saw the inside of a hospital usually, whereas the CNM had to.

So it's just, it's different.

The CPMs are coming at it from a, yes, a completely holistic, natural experience from beginning to end, whereas the CNMs have that medical training first before their midwifery training.

So it just puts it in a different lens.

So that made a big difference in like my pregnancy and my prenatal care.

And then I also hired a different doula.

So it's wise.

Yes.

And, you know, I was Christian and she was wonderful, as always.

And so, yeah, so that's kind of like the pregnancy.

And I think I really enjoyed being pregnant with him other than me getting really angry.

Other than the anger issues.

So let's talk about his labor then.

So how far along were you this time, and how did it start?

I was 39 weeks.

And I had, I started having prodromal labor.

I mean, of course, at the time, I didn't know it was prodromal labor, but I was having like contractions every 10 minutes regularly.

And I was like, oh, like, I wonder if this is kind of the start of it.

I don't know.

And of course, like I get in the bath, and then I try to just relax and just go about my daily things.

And they just don't stop, but they also don't continue to get close to each other.

And so a whole day went by that and then all night.

But thankfully, it was two nights, I guess, of prodromal labor.

And thankfully, I was able to sleep mostly through the night, both of those nights.

That was a huge blessing.

But then the next day, you know, kept on having it, it kept on going.

And I'm like, okay, well, part of the stress of it is like the anxiety of not knowing when it's actually gonna pick up and how quickly it'll happen.

And that's what I was a little bit like thinking about and worried about was, okay, is it just like, when is this thing gonna be over?

And then I was like, I knew that prodromal labor could last a few weeks before you actually go into labor.

Or you could have prodromal labor and then it'll stop and then you could start having it again.

And it's just so unpredictable.

And so that was really difficult.

And so then the second night comes by, and I'm like, so I'm so tired of it.

Like, when is this gonna end?

I'm really trying to like, distract myself during the day.

But it just is discouraging.

It's very discouraging to go through prodromal labor.

And then the third morning comes along, and there I woke up at like six, they were like six minutes apart.

But I still, in my mind, I was like, but it's still like maybe, maybe they'll just stay like this.

Maybe this is just a weird thing happening.

I don't know.

I was trying to psych myself out.

And so I called my doula, and I was like, hey, they're like six minutes apart right now.

It's been like an hour since I woke up.

She's like, okay, well, maybe, you know, get in the bath, see what happens.

And my midwife said the same thing.

And so I got up, I got out of bed first, and I got some time just to pray.

And like, be with the Lord, which was so precious.

And then I got in the bath, and they just like kept on getting more intense.

Now, that's the point that I wish that I had told them, hey, you should come now.

But in my mind, I was expecting labor to be at least like...

24 hours.

Yeah.

Like, my first was around 30, including early labor.

So I was like, okay, I'm expecting this to be at least like 12 hours.

You know, like, I'll cut it in half.

And like, I'm expecting it to be at least 8 to 12 hours.

And so I was like, in the bath, just laboring, listening to some worship music, and still not really believing that this is labor, like actually labor.

And things just got more tense.

I was like, maybe we should have my sister come.

She lives 45 minutes away to like watch Kara, because Kara is up now, my daughter.

And that's the point where I should have been like, oh, I should tell my other birth team to come, too.

Where was your husband?

He was taking care of Kara, because she got up, and he was like feeding her, making breakfast for her and stuff.

So he was like coming out of the bathroom.

So he knows that you're like in labor.

Yeah.

We set up the tub that morning, but I just had no idea how long it would have lasted, though.

So that's kind of like where my mind was at, at least.

And Levi like was texting them, and they're like, okay, well, maybe she should get on the toilet and stuff.

And by this time, I'm pretty sure they're both like trying to come on their way.

So I got out, I got on the toilet, and my sister arrived.

So it's been like an hour of laboring in the tub, at least, and things are just picking up.

They're like three minutes apart, maybe two minutes apart.

And they're really, really, really intense.

Like, and I don't remember experiencing this feeling that I did with my daughter, maybe because it was just such a slow progression.

But this had, like, it felt so intense.

And so I got out and I got on the toilet, and I needed my husband to be there now.

Like, I needed him there, and he couldn't be anywhere else.

So he was helping me labor, and I loved the position where he, like, where I was, like, on the toilet, and my arms were kind of, like, hanging on his arms or his neck, and just, like, he was pulling my upper body so I could, like, kind of sway while still sitting on the toilet.

But that was, like, the best position ever.

And then I moved into the kitchen because where our birth pool was, and I was like, I can't, like, something is happening right now.

Like, things are, something is happening.

My water hadn't broken that I know of, and so I was, like, laboring standing up, and I just feel change happening.

And it's hard to know how to describe that feeling, but I could just feel something different.

And thankfully, the pool was, like, filled up enough where I could get in.

So I got in, and as soon as I got in, I started to feel the urge to push.

I was like, oh, my gosh, like, my midwife isn't here yet, and my doula is, like, on her way.

Or they're both on their way, but my doula lives closer to me.

And, but, like, my body just starts pushing, and so I have my doula and my midwife on FaceTime, and they're just saying, like, I thought they would try to encourage me to, like, try to, like, not push and, like, wait.

Right.

That's what they do in the hospital, the provider's not in the room.

Don't push.

Don't push.

I thought they would say that because they weren't there yet.

But my midwife is like, it's okay.

Just listen to your body.

And I was like, okay.

Like, great.

I'm doing this.

And I start, I start, like, pushing.

And I, you know how I said I was very quiet from my first?

Well, this, there was, there was no way I was going to be quiet.

Like, I was so loud, and I scared my daughter because she was, like, around playing with my sister and stuff.

Because we have a very open layout.

And I was, like, wanting her to come close and hug me.

And she's, like, so scared.

Like, being so loud.

But, you know, it is what it is.

And yeah.

And so I started pushing and I reached down to feel him.

And it was so empowering.

Like, the fact that I, that I didn't need anybody else other than the Lord to birth this child was so empowering to me.

And so my doula came in the door as soon as I was like pushing his head out.

And I'm like, down here, putting, so I put my hand up and I felt his head.

And I was like, oh my gosh, like, I feel his head.

His head is right there.

And I just, I'm such in the zone where I don't even like care about anything else that's going on around me.

And I'm just like pushing.

And my wife's like, you're doing a great job.

You're doing a great job.

And she's like right down the road.

And my doula ran in.

And she put a glove on and then he was born.

And within two minutes of her being in the door, my son was born.

And then my midwife is still like 15 minutes away.

So it was an accidental, unassisted home birth.

But like I said, I felt so empowered.

And I think it just has to do with the birth team around me too.

Even if my midwife was on FaceTime, like she empowered me and made me feel like I can do this.

And it was just amazing and wonderful.

And yeah, it was really uncomfortable and really challenging.

But I think knowing that I've done it once before, having that in mind, like, no, I can do this.

My body is capable.

My body is made to do this.

Made me feel even more empowered.

And like, I don't know, like just praising the Lord that I am able to do this amazing thing.

So he was born and he was born screaming.

Like he was so loud, which was also another, like, it gave me a lot of assurance that like, he's a beautiful baby and like, we didn't know his gender at the time.

So we found out his gender.

And like, a few days before he was born, even like, we had a list of names for boy and girl that we wanted to choose.

But a name came to mind before I went into labor.

And I'm like, we never talked about this name before, but I just, it means praise.

Judah means to praise.

And I just felt like I really feel like this is going to be a boy.

And I really think his name is going to be Judah.

And it was a boy and it was just the most amazing, wonderful moment of just like seeing this baby boy.

And it just caused me, it made me praise the Lord.

So my husband was right behind me, and then my daughter got to witness him being born, and my sister got to witness him being born.

And then my midwife came in the door, and then the placenta was born, and then we moved into the bedroom and got snuggled up in bed, and just cuddled all four of us in bed.

And it was just wonderful.

I also feel like I was so joyful after his birth because God, he just answered so many of my prayers.

You know, sometimes God answers our prayers not in the way that we want him to, but like he, it was just felt like a kiss from him, that like it was a short labor, which is what I wanted so badly, is a short labor, a smooth birth, and like for us to just enjoy this child.

And that's exactly what happened.

And I was filled with so much joy.

And maybe part of it was because, you know, like the anger that I had was not there anymore.

And I was like, oh, this is what it means to be happy again.

But I don't know, I was just so joyful.

And like I said, I would do it like a million more times because it was so peaceful and just it felt so safe and sacred to me.

Being surrounded by the people that loved me and supported every ounce of what I was doing.

And then like the love that I felt after birth to being in bed, everybody just like caring for us and caring for a baby and making sure I'm nourished.

And so I have like Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 was huge for me.

It says, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding and all your ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your path.

And I think like even throughout his whole pregnancy, there's an aspect of like deep trust that I was like giving to the Lord or just needing to have in the Lord because it's really easy to like think about the worst-case scenario.

And I am thankful that I've never dealt with a miscarriage, but I know a lot of women who have, and I know a lot of women who've gone through really hard things with their children.

And that's like always a worry in my head, especially during his pregnancy.

I was like, well, like, what if I have a miscarriage?

Like what if the worst case does happen?

And every single time I had one of those thoughts, I had to like trust in the Lord.

Like even if he did have that for my life, like I need to trust him, and I need to trust him with this baby.

And that's what God calls us to is trust him.

And so I think my trust in him was greatly strengthened throughout his pregnancy and birth.

And it's just been so beautiful.

And so I'm so like, God is so good and glorious and wonderful and so loving towards us.

That is beautiful.

I'm just sitting here like, yeah, keep going.

You're right.

That's right.

Wow.

What an incredible second birth.

And as you mentioned, you could do it a million times.

I feel like that with my home birth, it became addicting.

Like just like, wow, yeah, I want to do that like a hundred more times in this life, even though I know that's impossible.

But that sounds amazing.

So does that mean you and your husband can see having more kids in your future one day?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

I want a full quiver.

Get that quiver full.

Oh, yeah.

That's awesome.

Do you have any advice for moms or parents or doulas or anyone?

Do you have anything you want to say as we're wrapping up?

Okay, I think two things.

One is if you are a first time mom, research, but also distract yourself in early labor.

And I guess the second thing, I guess this practical note is like, just distract yourself because it could be really long, and it also could not be really long.

But my second thing is, the most important thing is trusting in the Lord completely is so important.

And Psalms 34 was really impactful for me too, because it talks about taste and see that the Lord is good.

And like, do you really believe that God is good?

And do you really believe that He holds everything in His hands?

Do you believe that He holds all life in His hands?

And that was a question that I had to wrestle with a lot with Judah's pregnancy, because we can't see the future, but God can, and He holds it.

And so I think, like, press into trusting Him with every bit of pregnancy and birth, no matter how it ends up, like, He holds it.

He holds it.

And I think, like, just trusting in Him is, like, the most important thing we could ever do, is trust God with our future, trust God with our family, trust God with our children, and trust God with our pregnancy and births.

And it's easier said than done, but He's so kind to us.

And when we trust in Him, like, we can see His gifts and see life so much more abundantly when we trust Him and hide under the shadow of His wings.

And so, yeah, that's my advice.

Great life advice for everybody at every stage.

Awesome.

Well, thank you.

Thanks for sharing.

This has been awesome.

Well, I'm so glad to be able to share it with you, and I love that you care so much about this.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.

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Just being able to share that with other women who either haven't experienced pregnancy or birth yet, or have, but, you know, want to do it differently the next time or something, like, just, I mean, this isn't a jam.

I don't even like jam.

I really just like honey and butter.

Have you ever had cherry butter?

Cherry butter?

What is cherry butter?

So good.

It's like, I don't know why you don't like jam, but cherry butter is like, it's like a smooth butter, but it's like cherry plus spices.

And it's just, it's delicious.

It tastes like Christmas on a piece of toast.

So it's similar to jam, but it's not jam.

Christmas on a piece of toast.

Yeah.

Wow.

I could get down with that.