064 - Managing the Uncertainties of Postpartum Anxiety (with Kristian Jordan)

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SHOW NOTES:

When you’re a birth worker who’s attended many births and knows the ins and outs of postpartum, when you have done this before, when you’re having your third baby and everything goes perfectly smoothly, when you have a beautiful birth, a healthy baby and a healthy mama, when the baby is nursing well and has a wonderful latch, when you've got people around you bringing you meals and doing your laundry, when you know and love Jesus and follow Him, your postpartum is bound to be blissful, right? Well…not always. Hear how Kristian’s journey with postpartum anxiety went and how she was able to overcome it, as well as what God has taught her through this trying postpartum time. 

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TRANSCRIPT:

Around like day four or five postpartum, things changed for me.

I all of a sudden started feeling super anxious.

I had these varying fears, and most of it was health anxiety, which is something I've dealt with in the past, but definitely did not expect it because I had a smooth birth, everything seemed good postpartum, and so for it to just kind of hit all of a sudden was really shocking to me.

So I talked with my midwife about it and, you know, told her the things I was concerned about, and they were things that she was not presently concerned about.

And so, you know, normally that would suffice me.

And, you know, normally I would be like, okay, my midwife is not concerned.

I don't have any signs of these things that I'm scared of happening.

But for some reason, my brain was just playing tricks on me.

And I was so concerned specifically that I was going to have a postpartum hemorrhage.

Something just clicked in my brain that that was going to happen.

Hi, I'm Kayla Heater, follower of Jesus, wife and mother of five children, Christian childbirth educator in Doula, and your host of the Surrendered Birth Stories podcast, where we share God-centered birth stories, evidence-based birth education, and our pursuit of surrendering our birth plans to God.

Let's get started.

Hey, y'all.

Hope your week is off to a great start.

Happy Veterans Day.

It's exciting.

Well, if you're listening to this on Monday, the day it comes out anyways, happy Veterans Day.

Actually, our guest today, her husband is a veteran, so happy Veterans Day to Paul Jordan.

Also, we've got lots of veterans in my family, both of my grandfathers, several of my uncles, some cousins, all over the military.

We've got Navy, Army, National Guard, Air Force, Marines, all of them, all over my family.

So I just wanted to take a moment and wish everybody a happy Veterans Day, and thank you all so much for your incredible contribution and your service to our country.

My voice is a little froggy right now.

I would like to apologize for that.

Funny story, actually.

So I have been eating popcorn for 36 years, like my entire life.

I love popcorn.

I think it's delicious.

We always make it over the stove with some coconut oil, olive oil, some real salt.

It's delicious.

And I've gotten many kernels stuck in my teeth over the years, in my gums, in between my teeth, you know, all the different things.

But oh my goodness, I got a popcorn kernel stuck in the back of my throat, like, I don't know, kind of where the end of your, where your tongue ends and your throat begins.

And it's sort of like behind slash under slash on the side.

And it was like a shell of a kernel, and it went into that area like a splinter, like lodged itself in there.

And I could not get it out for anything.

And it was so painful.

I tried all I could that night, and then I finally gave up and was like, whatever, it'll come out on its own.

I'm just gonna go to bed.

It'll be fine.

And then a couple hours later, I woke up to nurse my son, and it was so sore and so painful.

Almost like it was swelling.

It was like I have been injured.

And so then the next day, I was doing all these different things to try and get it out.

I was like gargling saltwater and drinking honey, trying to physically get it out with my hands, like sticking my hands back there and my fingers and trying to get it out as much as I can.

But I kept gagging myself.

I was like spitting up blood.

It was, it was bad.

And it continued to get more and more painful, to the point where the next day, my throat was hurting so bad, I felt like I couldn't talk.

And so I do have some crunchy friends who used to be ER nurses, and they were like, well, you might just need to go to the ER and get it taken out.

But you know me, I try to do, like I need to be dying in order to go to the ER.

So I haven't gone yet.

It's been, let's see, I guess technically the third full day, because it happened like three nights ago.

So I did cave and start taking some Advil because the pain is very intense, but it's also like it's swollen that part of my throat and I sound very froggy now.

So I don't know.

I'm trying to do everything I can.

If it really comes down to it and I feel like it is really a big deal, I will cave and go to the ER and have them take it out.

But I'm really hoping it just dislodges on its own or maybe it already has.

And the pain is just coming from the cut or the swelling or whatever, because it definitely cut me.

I mean, there was blood and I've just never had an experience like that.

Never with a popcorn kernel.

And I love popcorn, but I think I might stay away from it for a little while until I've completely healed from this.

All right, guys, I did want to read a review this week.

I know I don't do it every week.

And maybe as like a good podcaster would read it every week.

I don't know.

But I do want to read a review.

I don't think you guys understand how important reviews are, especially like written reviews on Apple Podcasts, to getting this show exposed to more people.

Like with the algorithms, like the more reviews it has and subscriptions.

So like when you follow it or like click the follow button, and so like it's automatically downloading to your podcast app every week, that like will make it pop up in front of more people who just don't know that this show exists in the first place.

So it means so much when you do it.

And obviously like your words, your words are incredible to hear and motivate, you know, my husband and I to keep doing this.

So if this podcast, if any episode that you've ever listened to, has ever just blessed you or encouraged you or helped you or taught you something ever, just take like 30 seconds.

It doesn't take long at all to just hop down on to the review section and click write a review.

It doesn't even have to be long, just a brief written review, that would mean the world to me.

And on that note, I'm going to read one.

This is from Tay Anne Wall.

She says, First time moms, second time moms, eighth time moms, these stories are for you.

I remember when I was expecting my first, I did not hear a single positive birth story.

It made me terrified.

These podcasts have showed me every birth does not have to be a nightmare.

And even when plans do go sour, God is in your birth story.

Thank you for that.

See, this is so funny.

I don't know.

I get goosebumps all the time, but that gave me goosebumps just like reading that review.

I read every single review.

I am encouraged by every single review.

So thank you, thank you, thank you.

And if you leave one right now, you know, between now and next week, I will be reading your review next week.

So please, if you could do that for me, that would mean so much, so much to me and my sweet husband who spends several hours a week producing this podcast of his own spare free time, usually late at night instead of being asleep.

All right, let's get into this week's episode.

When you're a birth worker who's attended many births and knows the ins and outs of postpartum, when you've done this before, you're having your third baby and everything goes perfectly smoothly.

You have a beautiful birth, a healthy baby and a healthy mama.

When the baby is nursing well and has a wonderful latch, you've got people around you bringing you meals and doing your laundry.

When you know and love Jesus and follow him, your postpartum is bound to be blissful, right?

Well, not always.

Hear how Kristian's journey with postpartum anxiety went and how she was able to overcome it, as well as what God has taught her through this trying postpartum time.

Well, welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I'm your host, Kayla Heater, and I have Kristian back with me today.

This is actually your third time on the podcast, but it's been a while.

So this is great.

So Kristian was with us in episode 11 when we were talking about the differences in birth providers.

So like the differences between an OB or a midwife or a home birth midwife.

And then she was back with us in episode 20 to share her first two birth stories.

But since then, she has had another baby.

So we get to hear about her third birth story today, and I'm super, super excited because I honestly, I know that it was at home, and that was all I know.

Yep.

Okay.

I know.

You know, it's interesting.

I have not shared this story with many people, not for any particular reason other than life is busy.

I actually was thinking earlier about, I haven't even written this birth story down yet.

So this will be sort of my first time kind of hashing through the details and remembering some of the things.

So I'm glad to have you on that journey with me right now.

Well, just in case anyone hasn't listened to episode 11 or episode 20, which we do encourage you to go back and listen to those first.

It'll give you a lot of context for this third story.

But, can you just tell us a little bit about you and your life and yourself, just in case people don't go back and listen to those real quick?

So I've been married to my husband Paul for 10 years.

A few years after we were married, we got pregnant with our first baby.

And I planned a home birth with him, but unfortunately, I developed preeclampsia near the end of pregnancy.

And so we had to transfer our care to a local hospital where I was induced.

I had a successful induction with him, thankfully, and healed from the preeclampsia.

And so it was a pretty traumatic birth for me, just because I had planned a home birth and then had to go to the hospital.

And that's very different.

Those are very different experiences.

It was my first time being a patient in the hospital too.

So it was just very unique.

We thought that we wanted our children much closer together in age, but after that experience and just a really rough postpartum with him, it took a long time for my heart to be softened to going through pregnancy and birth again, and postpartum.

Praise Jesus, the Lord did soften my heart a few years later, and we got pregnant with our second baby, who was a daughter.

We planned another home birth that time, and I worked really hard to try to mitigate any issues like preeclampsia.

I followed the brewer's diet as closely as I could, and we successfully had a home birth with her in our new home back then in the water, at water birth in our bedroom, which was so beautiful, so healing, and so redemptive from our first experience.

My postpartum experience with her was, I don't know a better word to say other than just like heavenly.

It was magical.

I was so in love and just, I felt like I was on Cloud 9 the entire time.

Everything postpartum with her went really smoothly.

We loved their age difference so much that we thought for our third baby, we might try to get the same age difference.

And so we became pregnant with our third last May, May of 2023.

And found out very quickly that we were pregnant because I was hoping I was pregnant, so I was testing even early.

And yeah, so before I get started into like the pregnancy and the birth story, I'll also pause and say that I'm also a birth doula in the area.

I became a birth doula after my first birth because the experience changed me so much and just the Lord led me to birth work.

It was never something I thought that I would be interested in or get into.

But being a doula has been so healing for me, especially with that first birth.

And talking about my first birth used to bring me to tears immediately.

And through this work and through being able to minister to other moms and families, I have been so healed that now I see how the Lord has used that birth to serve other people.

And I'm so thankful for that experience now, even though it used to be something that was very traumatizing for me to even think about and talk about.

Now it's like fuel to the fire for me of why I do what I do and walking the journey with other families.

I think that being able to see that now, the Lord doesn't always give us the why here on earth, but when he does, it's just so kind of him and knowing that there's purpose and everything that happens and he uses everything that happens.

I love that you can have that perspective now and that he's kind of given you that revelation.

Me too.

And we have had many of your clients on here telling their stories, which is really fun.

Every time someone says hi to Doula and their local, because we're here like in the triad, I'm always like, who is your Doula?

Who did you hire?

And I feel like, most of the time it's somebody you know.

Yeah.

I'm like, oh yeah, I know them.

And when I don't, I'm like, oh, well, give me their number.

I would like to get to know them.

Yes.

Okay.

So walk us through this third journey.

You got pregnant last May pretty quickly, I assume.

Actually, we can cut this out if you want.

But I remember being at Birth Circle with you, and you were not pregnant yet.

And we were going around sharing stories, and I think maybe just intros, and you were like, yeah, I've got two kids.

And you were like, and hopefully a third on the way next month or something, because you're like, we're going out of town this weekend.

You do not have to cut that out.

It's all right.

But yes, we were planning to try to have another baby.

And yeah, we were just so excited.

And I think that time, just sharing with some close friends that that was something that we were desiring.

It offered people to be able to pray for us in that journey, because yeah, yeah, that's the best way to say it.

It's just getting prayer from people in that journey.

Well, I don't want to say it works like a charm, but it must have.

Prayer is powerful.

Yeah, prayer is powerful.

So obviously, we were so thrilled to find out we were pregnant.

And we found out the gender with both of our first two babies.

And so we decided, well, we have a boy and we have a girl.

So we're going to do surprise gender.

This would be a great pregnancy to do that.

And so that's what we decided to do.

And we did not find out until birth that she was a little girl.

And I think that that it was very, it added a different sense of joy to the pregnancy of just not knowing who this little person was growing inside of me.

So that was fun.

The pregnancy itself was very difficult, just like my first two.

I was actually officially diagnosed with hyperemesis gravitarum, some people call it HG, during this pregnancy.

And I know that's something that you struggle with too, Kayla.

And I think for anyone who, praise the Lord, doesn't get it, it's very hard to understand what it is and what it's like.

It goes beyond anything like morning sickness, and it is all day and all night sickness.

So it was a rough pregnancy from the standpoint of I was vomiting a lot.

I was nauseous the entire time.

I started losing weight even in the second trimester, and so then had to start medication in order to help my body be able to retain some nutrients.

And I got a lot of IVs during that pregnancy.

Thankfully, because I had been through that experience two times before, it wasn't a stranger to me.

So I feel like I did a much better job of supporting my body during that pregnancy.

And also going into that pregnancy knowing that it was a possibility of happening again.

So a lot of the pregnancy was spent laying down, just trying to retain as much of the nutrients that I was giving my body as possible, while trying to prep for birth and postpartum.

And that can be tricky to navigate when you just feel sick all the time.

Oh man, there is nothing like it.

It's like the cringe about thinking about doing that again, right?

It is.

I mean, when you've gone through it before, and then it happens again, it's like that first wave of nausea, that first wave of like, oh, I can't eat that, or I'm going to throw up, or I have to lay down.

And knowing how many months are ahead of you with feeling that like 24 hours a day, it's like one of the most intimidating feelings.

For sure.

In a way, I think that, you know, anybody with HG probably pauses and thinks, why did I do this again?

I think that's a very valid and normal response.

Not that we aren't thankful for that little life growing inside of us, but it is very debilitating for months and months and months.

Essentially, it's like having the stomach bug for nine months.

Yeah, I relate it to feeling like it, like I have the flu.

Like that's what it feels like.

But you have to live life like normally.

I mean, we still have responsibilities and other children and spouses and jobs.

And so, yeah, we can't just stop everything.

Still praying for a cure, I guess, but like just advancement in the HD research as to like preventing it or helping it or making it go away.

I don't know.

I know they're looking a lot more into it now than they ever used to.

So there's hope.

Yes.

Yeah, they've discovered some things last year, finally, some connections to HD that they had not before.

And I'm hopeful by the time that our daughters are having babies, that yeah, that there's even more research and possibly some treatments or some ways to prevent it that we don't even know about right now.

Right.

That is not something I would like to pass on to my daughters for sure.

I know.

Well, it's funny.

My mom says she was a little nauseous first thing in the morning, but then she would have a couple of crackers and she felt better the rest of the day.

And I'm like, wow.

My mom had wonderful pregnancies.

She felt great almost the entire time.

I remember one comment she made years ago to me was that she remembers kind of feeling better pregnant than even not pregnant.

Yeah, I've heard people like that.

That's wonderful.

I hope that people feel that way.

But unfortunately, that's not my story.

Right.

I'm the opposite.

So pregnancy, not the best, but we're grateful that you're pregnant.

So how did you go about planning this next home birth and choosing to go with your care provider?

So I love my home birth midwife so much that I literally plan pregnancies around when she'll be in town.

So I knew before we even got pregnant that hiring her again is what I wanted to do.

So as soon as I found out I was pregnant, I got on her schedule and planned another home birth with her, and our appointments went smoothly the whole time.

We essentially just planned to do exactly what we had done for a second, barring, of course, the Lord's will in everything.

Right.

Now, if people don't know, with your first, you had him at like, what, 35 and some change?

35 weeks, yeah.

Yeah.

And then you had your second, 37?

38 and four.

38.

Okay.

So you are used to having babies pretty early.

You've never made it to 40 weeks, which...

Ever.

We are not jealous of you.

We're happy for you.

Us 42-weekers over here are so happy for you.

For things.

I feel like that for you.

So how far did you go this time?

Let's just get into it.

Let's get into the labor story.

Okay.

So I was due...

Oh, goodness.

What was my due date?

I had delivered so far before my due date.

I don't even remember.

I believe it was March 3rd.

I think that was my due date.

So around February 7th.

It was February 7th or 8th.

One night, I went to the restroom really late at night, and I noticed that it seems like I lost some of my mucus plug.

And this would have been, yeah, so 30, I would have been 36 and 5, 36 and 4, something like that.

I'm sorry.

I don't remember exactly.

But it was something around that.

So obviously with home birth, you know, they really consider you to be in the clear for home birth once you're 37 weeks.

Anything before that is a little concerning.

And some home birth midwives, you know, their cutoff really is 37 weeks and beyond.

So I contacted my midwife and I just said, you know, I think I lost some of my mucus plug.

That's the only symptom that I'm having of anything.

I had been cramping, but I had been cramping for like weeks before.

Kind of like Braxton Hicks cramping that had gotten more significant, but there was no like intensity to them.

There wasn't, they weren't regular.

So I didn't consider them to be contractions.

So she just reminded me, you know, some people can lose their mucus plug even weeks before labor.

It can regenerate.

That's not really something that we're super concerned about unless there's other symptoms with it.

It was just unusual for me because I never lost any of my mucus plug before labor.

It was usually during labor.

And I mean, I don't even remember noticing any with my first two.

So it just made me aware.

Later that night, before we went to bed, I started having some contractions.

And so that concerned me.

There was no regularity to them, but I decided to get in hot baths to try to dissipate them a little bit.

As you know, you're a doula, we tell our clients, get in a bath.

And sometimes those can be clarifying to figure out, is it just Brex and Hicks?

Is it contractions?

And unfortunately, the contractions remained while I was in the bath, and they started to become regular.

So I called my midwife again, and she reminded me to drink a lot of fluid, try to stay in the bath a little bit longer, and see what happened.

And thankfully, after a couple of hours, they went away.

But at that point, there was a concern of, okay, I've had mucus plug, now I've had some regular contractions that they were wrapping around the front and back.

So they seem to be more than Brex and Hicks.

So we were concerned about some labor prior to 37 weeks, and what that would mean for my birth.

I probably would have to go to the hospital at that point.

So my midwife highly recommended that my husband, Paul, stay home from work the next two days, which he did.

And basically, my job was just to sit in bed all day.

And not move.

Basically, it's funny, but she's like, keep your legs closed.

Just try to rest as much as possible, and we're gonna try to get this baby to at least 37 weeks.

So that's what I did for the next two days.

It was hard for me, but I just let my husband and my family serve me, and I would try to keep that baby cooking as long as I could.

So I lost my mucus plug on a Wednesday evening.

Started having contractions that night.

And then Thursday and Friday, I basically just sat in bed all day.

We went to bed on Friday night, and something before we went to bed just told me to put up my birth affirmations on my wall that I had not done yet.

So I had a garland with greenery and lights, and I put my birth affirmations, I close pinned them to the garland.

And I just thought, you know, we're getting close to 37 weeks.

It's in two days.

We should probably go ahead and prep some things.

So I don't know if that was just intuition, or if it was just ironic that that was the night that we did that.

But around 2.10 in the morning on Saturday morning, I woke up and my water broke.

I woke up to use the restroom, and when I got back to bed and laid down, my water broke, and I jumped up out of bed, I was like, oh my gosh, my water broke.

Woke up my husband, and of course, in my mind, the first thought is, oh my goodness, I'm 36 and 6, and my midwife is not going to come to me, she's going to send me to the hospital.

I don't want a hospital birth, but I also knew with my history of birth, I'm probably not going to make it another day after my water breaks.

It's just, I don't have long labors.

So I called my midwife right after my water broke and told her, and she gave me the rundown of, okay, you're 36 in six days, so close to 37 weeks, you're one day away.

With the fact that I've had a history of earlier births, and I'm not classically somebody who goes way past their due date, and I've not had babies that have distress at birth, she told me that she was okay to still come to me and plan for a home birth, but that they would just be super aware of everything.

And if there were any red flags in labor, that we would transfer, which I was very comfortable with.

My husband and I talked about it, and we said, yes, we'd still like to try for a home birth.

And then, of course, if anything comes up, we'll happily transfer.

I trust her, so I would follow that lead if she recommended that.

So right after I got off the phone with her, I called my doula, Jessica.

And I was on the phone with her for a little while, and then the plan was for her to lay back down and I would call her back.

But I texted her just 10 minutes after that and told her that I had three contractions in 20 minutes.

They were seeming to come very regularly and they were very strong also in my back.

And so she told me, I'm just going to go ahead and come to your house.

She lives about 20 minutes away from me.

She said, I would rather be sleeping on your couch than miss your birth.

So she went ahead and made her way this way.

When she got to my house only like 15 minutes later, she must have driven fast.

She told me to lay down and get off my feet because of course I was up moving around trying to get things done.

So I lay down in bed and she sat on the bed with me and talked me through contractions while my husband was up getting the birth pool set up because that was still something we had not done yet.

And just getting things around the house like tidied and ready.

I'm a very like type A planner person.

So I had made all these lists for him of things I wanted him to do.

Like when I went into labor, things I wanted to do before the baby was born.

And so he was trying his best to get all that stuff done so that I wouldn't have to think about it anymore.

In the middle of the night.

In the middle of the night.

Yes.

Yes.

And thankfully our other two children were asleep and somehow slept through all of this.

They're pretty light sleepers, so we're very thankful.

So around 3 to 12 in the morning, according to my doula, is when I started moaning during contractions, which in birth work, we're like, yes, when we start hearing the moaning, because that typically means that labor is getting pretty active at that point.

So that was encouraging.

I labored in bed until around 4.15 when I got up to use the bathroom, and Paul was finally done with setting everything up in our house that I wanted him to do.

And at that point, I got in our bathtub, in our bathroom.

So he had gotten the birth tub set up, but we weren't quite sure if we were ready for it yet.

So I wanted to get in our regular bathtub.

And that warm water was so nice.

And I had really intense contractions in my back this time.

And my baby was positioned very well, but for some reason it was just really intense in my back.

So during every single contraction at that point, I wanted Paul giving me counterpressure.

Other people tried giving me counterpressure during that labor, but Paul's really strong counterpressure is what was working for me.

So every time one would start, I'd be like, Paul, Paul.

And even if he was right behind me and I didn't even realize he was right there, I was calling for him, start the counterpressure right now.

And that was something I really relied on a lot.

So that was wonderful.

So I was laboring in the bathtub, and I would say about 30 minutes later, I started asking for my midwife.

I think I just intuitively knew that I needed her there.

I'm somebody who wants my whole birth team there.

I don't really want to give birth unassisted because I know at the end of labor, I typically get panicky.

So I wanted the people, my people there.

So my midwife got there around 6.15.

She lives about an hour for me.

So it took her a little time to get there, but she got here around there around 6.15.

And I got out of the tub at that point.

I'd been in for a little while, so I decided to get out.

And I requested that she do a cervical check, and she doesn't always do cervical checks.

But for me, just the encouragement of knowing where I was at, I knew would be helpful to me.

So she checked me, and I was six centimeters, and baby was zero station, and I was 75% of face.

So that was very encouraging to me that just a couple of hours of labor, of really hard work, had gotten me that far.

Yeah.

At that point, I sat on the ball on the edge, at the edge of our bed for a while, while Paul was giving me counter pressure.

I kind of did a mixture of standing up and sitting back down on the birth ball, just really like letting my body and intuition lead what I was doing with positions.

Yeah.

My birth photographer arrived just before 7 a.m.

And I was so excited to see her too, because she's part of my birth team.

So at that point, everyone had arrived.

So I had my midwife, her birth assistants, my doula and my birth photographer, and my mom, and my husband.

So it was quite a full room.

Full house.

For me, having my team there is really empowering, because all of them are there for one purpose, and that's to support me.

And they believe in me, and they encourage me, and I just really love having their presence with me in the birth space.

So around 7.30, I think it was like 7.30 in the morning, they had finished filling the birth tub in our bedroom.

And so at that point, I got into the birth tub.

Contractions were very, very intense at this point.

Kind of getting to the point where, you know, when you're in super active labor and transition, and also transition, you aren't really able to even like communicate in between the contractions at that point.

So it had transitioned into that part of labor, where all of my focus was on this labor.

So I got into the bath, and that was of course super, or the birth tub, and that was super relaxing.

The birth tub was right in front of my wall of affirmation.

So I remember just sitting there, and like in between contractions, even though I couldn't communicate with other people very well at that point, I would look over to the wall and just like read an affirmation, and just like repeat it over and over in my mind.

And I had affirmations with scripture on them, and just, you know, all like faith based affirmations, which was so helpful for me to see in that moment.

I labored in the tub for a while, and I started to feel pushy in there.

And I had given birth in the tub during my second labor, our second birth, and intended, I think, to have another water birth this time.

But something about the water, like I just, when I started feeling pushy and I started bearing down, I didn't feel like I had a lot of leverage with my feet.

It was one of the inflatable birth tubs.

There was nothing solid to put my feet on, and I felt like that's what I needed.

So my midwife recommended that I get out for just a little while, with the intention of getting back in maybe.

And she had me sit on like a birth stool.

And I did that for a while, and just to get some leverage with my feet, and pushed a little bit on the birth stool.

And that sort of worked, but also just felt not centered in the way that I needed.

So then she recommended that I try to stand and push, which is something I never thought I would do.

But I did, I stood up, and I had my doula on one side, and my midwife on the other side.

They were kind of helping to brace my arms, because during a contraction, when I would bear down, I would kind of go into a squat a little bit.

And so having to help hold me up was really helpful.

With my husband behind me, of course, giving me all the back counter pressure that he could, things were really, really intense.

So I would say I actively started pushing while I was on the birth stool, and then especially when I was standing up, I just, it was that intensity that you could not help but push.

And with my history, I knew that this was the part of labor that I just don't do super well by myself.

This is the part of labor where I really need my people.

And so I remember during contractions and in between contractions, just looking into the eyes of the people in front of me for reassurance that everything was okay.

And I think it's so funny, even when you are in this work, when you are the one giving birth, some things just go out the window, and you still need people to reassure you and remind you of truths.

And so that was what my midwife and her assistant did.

And I remember looking over at my doula and her saying, you can do this, Kristian.

And just having those reminders from people is incredible.

At this point, my kids were awake, or older two were awake.

My son had been coming in and out of the room, but I think he was just very overwhelmed by the intensity of these moments.

So he decided to go back to the living room and watch a movie, which was totally fine.

I wanted them to have the opportunity to come in and out and be there if they wanted to, but not feel pressured either.

My daughter, on the other hand, who was a little bit over three during this birth, she was like super engaged, all in it.

So my husband was behind me giving me counter pressure and she's right beside him leaning on his shoulder.

So that was super sweet that she was super present for the stage of labor.

That's so cool.

So I would say when I started standing, well, when I started sitting on the birth stool, it was around 8, 10.

So I would say around that time, I was like actively pushing and I started standing around 8, 25 and then she was born at 8, 41.

So I pushed for about 20 minutes actively, which felt like a lot longer to me in the moment.

Like I said, I feel very out of control when I'm pushing.

Some moms feel, some moms, that is their favorite part of labor because-

That's my favorite part.

Yeah, right.

I love that for you.

Because they feel like, well, you can speak into this, but they feel like, okay, I can do something about this.

Like I'm actively participating in my birth.

It's not just happening to me.

For me, it feels very out of body, something about pushing.

And I think also pushing is so vulnerable, and I need my people there, but also being in a room full of people while doing something that vulnerable is just a little bit overwhelming.

So it's kind of catch 22 for me.

I totally get that.

It's the craziest sensation you'll ever feel in your life, for sure.

It really is.

And nothing can adequately prepare you for it.

Even if you've done it before.

Exactly.

So yeah, so she was born at 841, and I was still standing at that point when she was born.

So my midwife and my husband kind of came around from behind me at that point.

My midwife and my husband caught her, or actually, it might have been the birth assistant, and my husband caught her.

My midwife was behind me too, and the birth assistant was in front.

And so I think it was the two of them that caught her.

And I helped bring her up to my chest, and then they helped get me sat back on the edge of our bed, because I was standing right in front of the bottom of our bed.

So I sat back on the edge of our bed with her on my chest.

Still didn't know she was a girl at this point.

So after just like a couple of seconds of catching my breath, right, because you got to catch your breath after all that excitement, I pulled her away from me just enough to see that she was a girl.

And I just wept, and I said, Oh, she's a girl.

Because I really had no feeling either way of whether it was a boy or girl.

So it was very much a surprise for me, no matter which way it went.

And we had names picked out already at that point.

So I said, It's Ella May.

We named her after my great grandmother, my grandfather's mother.

That was super special for us to finally know who had been with us for eight months and that she was a girl, and she finally had a name that we call her.

That's really sweet.

Now, is that your grandfather who you live really close to?

It is, yes.

My grandfather is one of my very best friends, and it's so fun to live right beside he and my grandmother and share our kids with them many days during the week, and just to be close to them like that.

That's so special.

I love my grandparents.

That's so cool that you get to live right next to them.

My son actually, he asked me after the last time we visited them, he said, wouldn't it be cool if we lived in the house next door to granny and grandpa?

I said, yeah, but that would be really cool.

It's so special to have good relationships with your grandparents.

And I know not everybody is close to their grandparents, so I'm very blessed in that regard.

Yeah.

So I'm sitting back on my bed holding my baby, and just a few minutes later, I could feel I was starting to get crampy and contractions started happening again.

So we knew it was probably time for the placenta.

So the placenta was delivered just around, it was like three minutes after she was born.

It was pretty fast.

So once that happened, they helped me move over to my side of the bed and get sat down on the bed, just to get off my feet, and so that my midwife could then check to see if I had any tears or how my bleeding was doing, all that stuff while I'm holding my baby.

I did not have crazy bleeding, and I didn't need any stitches, no repairs, which I was super grateful for.

I also did not need them with my first two, but of course, every birth is different.

So it is something that we usually think about ahead of time.

So I was very thankful that all of that went super smoothly.

She, I think she latched within like the first 30 minutes after she was born.

And even though she was a little bit early, she was great.

She had amazing Avgar scores, which I was very thankful for.

She was pink and vocal and opening her eyes, and she did everything she was supposed to do.

Man, you just cook them really quickly.

Like your babies are just ready to come out and ready to live life.

Yes, apparently so.

How much did she weigh?

Six pounds, 10 ounces.

Which is that normal for you, right?

Well, here's the interesting part.

So my first was a little over five pounds.

My second, who was born at 38 and four, was six pounds, two ounces.

This baby, who was born even before her, weighed more.

So this baby weighed the most out of all three of my babies.

Oh yeah, she was ready.

She was ready to come out.

She was, yes.

And she was so, like she, I mean, even though she was tiny, she was plump.

Like she had, she had a nice little fat on her in places and definitely did not look like a preemie baby.

She looked around the 37 week size.

So she was so cute.

So cute.

She is so cute.

She has the sweetest little pictures.

She has dimples.

Oh, I just love her.

So after they got me in bed and my midwife checked everything, I tried to start nursing right away and she latched pretty immediately, which for earlier babies is always a blessing because sometimes those earlier babies can be a little tricky to get latched.

And if they happen to be a little bit lethargic, that adds on more stress.

And thankfully she did not have any of that.

She nursed very well from the beginning.

And at that point, our birth team kind of left the room and gave us a moment just to be us, our family.

So they went into our kitchen and living room area and caught up on their notes and started fixing some snacks for everybody.

So I had some charcuterie stuff in the fridge ready to go.

And my doula knew it was her job to fix the charcuterie board for everybody that they could share.

And then she brought me a little plate on a tray in the room.

So I just got to eat some charcuterie on our bed while I was holding our baby.

And my daughter and son came up on the bed and started snacking with us too.

And it was just so sweet and peaceful.

And also, it was so neat that she was born in the morning after the sun had come up.

So the sun was streaming through our windows.

It was nine o'clock in the morning, and it was beautiful day outside.

It was cold, but it was so sunny.

And yeah, it was a neat way to start a day, for sure.

Yeah, having a baby.

Yeah.

Our kids were still in their PJs with their bed hair.

And it was just wonderful.

I love that for you.

I love that that got to be your experience.

And I love that even though she came less than 24 hours before 37 weeks, that you still got to have her at home.

Because it definitely sounded like she was ready and healthy and ready to be born.

Yeah.

So take us into postpartum.

Yeah.

So the first few days postpartum were just like with my first daughter.

They were just blissful.

I was like on Cloud 9.

I had some back pain and normal post-labor contractions and things that were making me feel physically a little bit weak.

But other than that, I just emotionally, I felt so good.

We protected our time at home.

We had wonderful support with Mealtrain, and just those early days, we felt very supported and held by our friends and family and community.

But around day four or five postpartum, probably when my mature milk was starting to really come in full force, things changed for me.

I all of a sudden started feeling super anxious.

I had these varying fears, and most of it was health anxiety, which is something I've dealt with in the past, but definitely did not expect it because I had a smooth birth, everything seemed good postpartum, and so for it to just hit all of a sudden was really shocking to me.

So I talked with my midwife about it and told her the things I was concerned about, and they were things that she was not presently concerned about.

And so normally that would suffice me, and normally I would be like, okay, my midwife is not concerned.

I don't have any signs of these things that I'm scared of happening.

But for some reason, my brain was just playing tricks on me.

And I was so concerned specifically that I was gonna have a postpartum hemorrhage.

I'd never had one before, but something just clicked in my brain that that was going to happen.

And it was a super scary thought.

Like I thought that it was gonna happen in the middle of the night when everybody was asleep, and nobody would know, and that I would not be here when they woke up.

And that is not a normal thought for me to go through.

Very intrusive thoughts.

That's dark.

So at that point, I had started getting up out of bed and going into the living room and sitting with my family during the day.

Or like I said, I'm type A.

I like to get things done.

So I would get up and wash a couple of dishes, because for me, I knew that my husband would take care of everything, but I like being productive, and I like feeling like I'm contributing.

So I just, for me, I needed to be doing some things and then sitting back down.

But around the time that all that anxiety started, I knew what it was.

I was able to identify it because I've seen it before, and because I'm in this work, I was very aware of what was happening to me.

So I was able to communicate it to the people that were close to me.

And then I put myself back to bed.

I knew that at that point, I needed more healing, not just physically but also emotionally.

For whatever reason, this health anxiety had hit me.

So it was pretty debilitating for a couple of weeks, and I didn't share it with many people because I didn't quite understand it myself, where it came from, why it happened.

But after a couple of weeks, it started to get better.

I think once I got out of that immediate postpartum time, I was able to rationalize things a little bit more to myself.

But I would say it probably took me about four months to feel like myself fully again, which interestingly is how I felt after the birth of my first.

It was about four months where I just felt like I was living under this cloud.

It's like this dark cloud, where I'm joyful because my baby's here, and there's nothing wrong with my baby.

But there's just something going on with me, where I don't feel normal.

And with my second, I never had that sensation at all.

So this kind of blindsided me, because I assumed, hey, I'm having another home birth.

It went really smoothly.

Nothing is wrong.

I just felt blindsided.

That's wild.

Because I know a lot of people who have had postpartum disorders, whether it's depression or rage or anxiety, after having your first, after having a traumatic birth, after having it go not the way you wanted it to, or something happened to the baby or something.

But like you said, typically after a really pleasant and smooth and beautiful blessing of a birth, the postpartums tend to go more like your second, especially if there's no nursing issues too.

So that, I mean, yeah, that would be blind sighting for sure.

Yeah.

So that was definitely a surprise.

The birth was absolutely beautiful, but postpartum was kind of rough, and it was all due to my postpartum anxiety that I had.

So how did you handle that?

What did you do?

How did you seek help or did you seek help?

I didn't seek professional help, although I was very close to it, but I just, I talked a lot.

I talked to my husband a lot.

I talked to my mom, I talked to my midwife, and a couple of very close friends of mine.

And I think that was one of the differences.

After my first, I didn't really know what I was experiencing was postpartum anxiety.

So I didn't really talk about it with anybody but my husband.

And of course, at that point, it was all new to him too, so he didn't know what was normal and what was not normal.

By this third baby, we very much knew what's normal and not normal.

And so being able to share that openly with people and just say, hey, I'm struggling, gave me accountability.

And also it made me have a support system of people checking in with me daily of how I was feeling.

So I didn't constantly have to feel like updating them, but they would reach out to me.

And just having people reach out to me was very helpful to help me think through some of those irrational thoughts that kept popping into my brain.

I also am a avid Googler.

So anytime I would feel the least off of anything, I would start Googling, and of course led me down this rabbit hole of what was going to happen.

It's a deep, dark cave you're going down.

It's so dark.

And so at one point, my husband was just like, I'm going to take your phone.

I love you so much.

I want you to just lay in bed and listen to worship music, and I'm going to take your phone because you've got to stop.

But it was impulsive.

I could not help it.

Yeah, anxiety is interesting because it makes you feel very out of control.

And I'm generally a really rational person.

So to feel irrational and to feel like I could not have any control over my thoughts or what I was doing or thinking was really challenging.

It sounds like a lot of spiritual attack too, like just from the enemy, like putting those dark thoughts in your head and using that.

Because the other thing is your story just kind of goes to show that like it doesn't matter if you are a third time mom, if you have a super smooth, amazing birth, if you know the Lord and love the Lord, if nursing is going well, if you're super healthy, like all these things, like it doesn't matter.

It's like the enemy new year weak spot.

And it sounds like he just went right after it.

Absolutely.

I'm really glad Paul took your phone away.

Me too.

Me too.

So looking back, now that we have many months between that time of life and now, looking back, I do think that there was also, there were other things at play that contributed to that anxiety.

So during my pregnancy, basically from the beginning of pregnancy until birth, it was a really stressful time in our lives.

So not only was I sick with HG, but there were also just things going on in our family that we really struggled with.

So my grandfather's health took a downturn, and that affects me very personally because, like I said, he lives beside me.

He's one of my best friends.

And so we also experienced a couple of deaths in our family just weeks before Ella May was born.

So it was a very, very stressful season of life, the entire pregnancy.

And it was almost like one thing after another kept happening, and we couldn't wrap our brains around the first one before the next one would happen.

And so I think postpartum, you're all of a sudden in this season of like rest and being super present, and I wasn't able to just get up and go do things outside of the house.

And so it's almost like that's when I had to deal with all the things that had been piling up.

And so I think there was some subconscious things happening of like everything was just compiled and all of a sudden being dealt with in my brain and in my body.

Yeah.

And I believe that that also contributed to that anxiety was part of.

We finally had time to sit and process it and think about it.

And what a challenging time to do that.

With all those hormones rushing through your body.

For sure.

That does not help.

But beyond that postpartum anxiety in that season, everything else in that time was wonderful.

Like I said, we had amazing support.

We had a few weeks worth of a meal train.

So we did not have to cook for so long.

And then I had frozen some meals prior to birth.

And so once the meal train was done, we just tapped right into those frozen meals.

And I think it was like two months we did not have to cook dinner, which was the biggest blessing.

And as you know, the more children you have, the less time you have.

And so it was just so nice to be able to focus out on family time instead of having to make grocery lists and meal plan and make those meals every day.

That is such a blessing.

Yeah.

One of my best friends also did a couple of loads of laundry for us where she would pick up our dirty laundry in a basket and bring it back cleaned and folded.

And that was such a blessing.

I just felt very seen and very held during that time.

I mean, it's so important just to have that support postpartum.

And I know a lot of times with clients, I'll be talking, yeah, we talk in classes about all the pregnancy stuff and, of course, everything to get through labor and nursing and all the things, but we do talk and focus on setting yourself up for postpartum and preparing for postpartum and making sure you have support ready to go postpartum because, yes, the labor is a big, big deal, but so is postpartum.

Exactly.

I kind of equate it to a wedding and a marriage.

Yeah.

We put so much emphasis on our wedding day, which is fine and good, and it's a beautiful day, and we want to celebrate it just like birth, but the marriage is the long haul part of it, just like postpartum is the long haul part of it.

So that's kind of how I talk to my clients about it.

It's so important to prepare for and to have a plan, a loose plan, but kind of just to talk about it with your spouse ahead of time and your family and have your support system set up instead of having to figure it out in the moment.

I love that analogy.

That's a perfect analogy.

Yeah.

So I've had a very interesting, like extended postpartum time that I'll share here.

Yeah.

I've not shared this with many people yet, so here we go.

Here we go.

Let's do it.

Here we go.

But you know, every, it's amazing.

The Lord ties everything together.

Everything is connected.

And sometimes, you know, it takes some time apart from an event to see how the Lord works everything together.

Yeah.

But along with all that postpartum anxiety that I had, a couple of weeks after birth, I started having a cough that intensified greatly.

So I've struggled with a cough for many, many years.

It's always just been equated to asthma.

But this one was different.

It just came on suddenly and would not go away.

It lasted for a couple of months and then eventually developed into shortness of breath, low oxygen, none of that's helping my health anxiety, right?

It's all tied in together with that anxiety.

But yeah, so I started just not feeling well.

And having this intuition of something isn't right, but I don't exactly know what it is.

So she was born on February 10th, and these symptoms lasted for a few months, up until early June, when I actually decided one day to go to the emergency room, because that shortness of breath and low oxygen weren't going away, and it had also turned into chest pain.

So at that point, my concern was a pulmonary embolism, which is a blood clot in the lungs for somebody who doesn't know.

And those are rare, but your chances of one are slightly higher after childbirth in the postpartum time.

And so knowing all of that and talking to my midwife and talking to my doctor, we decided it would be best just to have that ruled out.

So I went to the ER, and thankfully it was not a blood clot in my lungs, but there were some suspicious findings in my lungs, which was interesting.

So that led me on this long journey that I've been on since June of many, many doctor's appointments and tests and a procedure and trying to figure out exactly what's going on.

And it's actually led me to finally having an answer that I've recently been diagnosed with a very rare autoimmune condition called Ankylvasculitis.

I think it affects something like one in 100,000 people, so it's so rare.

But it is the answer to a lot of things and a lot of symptoms I've been dealing with for years.

So I'm thankful to actually have an answer, but it's been a pretty wild journey to get to that answer.

And also interesting doing it in the postpartum season, too.

Okay.

So tell us about that.

What are some of the markers or symptoms of that autoimmune disease, and then what can you do about it?

Yeah.

So my symptoms specifically have been lung involvement and sinus involvement.

So for a long time, I've struggled with a cough, and just thinking that it's asthma all this time, and breathing issues.

I get sick very easily, like I catch colds very easily.

And when I do, they tend to go to my chest, and they just kind of hang out my lungs.

Most people can get over a cold in a few days or a week, and it might last for me for weeks and weeks.

And sometimes I've had a cough after a cold for months, that is just relentless.

And also just sinus involvement.

I don't smell things very well.

There's lots of pieces of this puzzle.

Some fatigue that just doesn't seem normal, even though I'm a mom, and even with my lifestyle the way that it is, it's sometimes pretty debilitating fatigue, which I always just equated to being a mom with young children.

And then in the past couple of years, I've also started having some random hand and arm pain, like joint pain, almost.

But I wasn't putting any of that together.

I was just kind of pushing it off to like, oh, it's probably like a pinched nerve.

It's probably, I'm just tired because I'm a mom.

Oh, I'm just coughing because I have asthma.

So I never thought that those things were all connected until going on this journey of figuring out what's going on.

And so finally, at one of these doctor's appointments, it was actually an ear, nose, and throat doctor who said, have you ever been tested for autoimmune?

And I had not.

And so he decided to run some blood panels, which I was fine with.

And that's when some things popped up that were very interesting.

And that sent me on a journey to rheumatologist, and yeah, it's been quite the journey.

So unfortunately, there's no cure for Anka-associated vasculitis.

There are treatments, and it seems to be if you don't want the vasculitis to get worse, then treatment is what is recommended.

And so with Anka-vasculitis, it typically affects you in the sinuses, lungs, and kidneys.

Currently, I don't have any kidney involvement, praise Jesus.

And so the goal is to keep it from getting there, and to keep it from getting worse in the places that it is.

And so the treatment for that are immunosuppressants that are specifically for this type of vasculitis.

So I haven't actually started those yet.

This is all transpired in the past couple of weeks of actually officially getting a diagnosis, and then now we're on the track to getting the treatment scheduled to get started.

It is something that some people can get into remission, and so that's our goal.

And I'm with a really, really good vasculitis team at a local hospital.

I feel very cared for by them, which isn't always the case in the medical field of feeling cared for, but I actually feel like I'm a person, and I'm an individual with individualized treatment with them.

So yeah, that's a lot.

That's a lot.

And I know this is like a birth story podcast, but this all ties in for me because I found out that with any autoimmune conditions, stress can play into things flaring up, but also postpartum.

It's very common for autoimmune issues to flare up postpartum.

And so this has been an interesting journey for me of wondering, like, why did the Lord allow this postpartum anxiety to happen?

Why did he allow this health anxiety to happen?

And I think in a way, he used it to make me tune in to the intuition that he's given me.

Because while the first little bit of postpartum anxiety and health anxiety was founded on not truths, I did not have a postpartum hemorrhage, I never did, it did go on to be something that was very real and something that I had to listen to.

And it did turn into something.

And so I see how he allowed me to have this intuition that led me to receive answers.

And also realizing that with this condition, some people can go years and years of not knowing that they have it until they're in kidney failure, and basically being on their deathbed.

And it's very possible that this flared up postpartum so that we would find it faster.

And so I'm really thankful for that.

And in many ways, I'm able to look at it and think that LMA might have saved my life.

Which is really incredible to think about.

And it's all been really hard to do postpartum, because there's this like mix of grieving that I didn't get the postpartum experience that I was hoping for and thinking what happened.

You know, I did not expect myself in and out of doctor offices for the last few months while still breastfeeding, while trying to be a mom and homeschool and own a business and...

And run diverse multiple times a week.

Run diverse multiple times a week, yes.

And also not really sharing with many people, because I didn't know what was going on.

And so I didn't feel like dragging a bunch of people into the story until I knew for sure what was happening.

Yeah.

I'm really glad that you shared, though.

And I've heard stories like that, where people postpartum have discovered, you know, autoimmune issues or disorders or cancers or things that, like, were revealed to them postpartum because they were paying attention to so many things that they ordinarily wouldn't have.

And I know a lot of times pregnancy can suppress autoimmune disorders, and maybe why some people do feel better when they're pregnant, because those things are being suppressed.

But then when the pregnancy's over, everything kind of, you know, comes to a head, and you start experiencing everything.

So, yeah.

But you know, my faith has been strengthened through all of this.

And I think that it would be very easy to turn away from that, and to not see the Lord in all of it, because it feels very big, and it feels very out of control.

And life-changing.

Receiving a diagnosis of anything is life-changing, especially with something that doesn't have a cure, and something that you're going to have to receive treatment for the rest of your life.

It's very life-changing.

But in this season, you know, the Lord has just like revealed to me that nothing is a surprise to Him.

Like, these days were preordained from the beginning of time, and they were a surprise to everyone else, including myself and everybody in my life.

But God knew all along that this journey was going to happen.

And so just like your podcast is called Surrendered Birth Stories, like in this season of life, I've had to surrender so much to the fact that He knows even when I don't, and that He is going to be with me on this journey from now to the rest of my life.

And no matter what this journey looks like, yeah, He's going to be with me.

It's like you've had enough time since being diagnosed that you can know that, and that you can be reassured of that and feel that, and that the Lord is with us through the valley and not just in the good times.

And usually our relationships are strengthened with Him when we're going through something hard, because that's when we need Him most.

Absolutely.

And just like my story with my first birth, where I felt pretty traumatized afterward and it used to bring me to tears, I now see the goodness that came from that and all the ways that the Lord used that story.

And so I have this faith now that somehow the Lord is going to use this very hard and life-changing thing, and I may not see it for years to come, but I know that He's going to use it for His good.

And just resting in that fact has helped me through so many of these days.

And yeah, in the beginning with the diagnosis and kind of the pre-diagnosis of knowing kind of where it was leading, and doing lots of research, there were many questions.

I wasn't at peace the entire time.

I had a lot of anxiety, a lot of questions like, why me?

Why, you know, I take care of my health.

I do A, B, and C, and I follow these things, and I live a pretty holistic lifestyle.

Why?

Why did this thing choose me?

Why did God allow this to happen to me?

But being able to now have that bigger picture and surrendering it all to Him, and knowing that nothing is a secret, and knowing that He's not going to introduce anything into my life that He isn't in control of, is, allows me to just step back, and have peace with it, and feel held by Him.

I love that.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.

You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram, or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

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We hope you have a great week, and remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans and then leave it in God's hands.

I'm looking at my notes.

Around three, 12 in the morning.

Oh, wait.

Can you pause for just a second?

My husband, you know Chris Heater, he just texted me and said, with a sad emoji, I left my coffee in our room.

So, I'd be really sad if he had five kids and no coffee.

So, I'm just going to hand that to him real quick.