035 - Maintaining A Positive Outlook In Labor (with Cayla Krop)

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It’s hard to imagine in this day and age choosing to have a home birth, over 98% of babies in America are born outside of the home. But choosing to have a home birth for your first birth? That’s even more rare. Listen to Cayla share her birth stories today and how and why she and her husband decided that home birth was the best route for them and their babies, and how God answered her prayers during both experiences in different ways.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hey everyone, hope your week is off to a great start.

Hope your weather is beautiful wherever you are.

Hope you are just having an incredibly awesome day.

That is my prayer for you.

I actually am having a great day or a great night.

I'm recording this at night.

Most of our recordings happen in the evening.

I just got back from teaching childbirth class, which is literally my favorite thing to do, I think.

I have so much fun teaching childbirth classes.

It is such a passion of mine, and I'm just so grateful that I get to do it.

I have a great group of students.

We've got another week or so together, but it's so fun seeing them learn the things that they didn't know and helping them become better educated about their pregnancies and their upcoming births and what choices they have and the risks and benefits that come along with those choices and helping them figure out how to make the best choice for them and then teaching them to surrender those plans to the Lord.

It's just, oh, I just love it so much, almost to the point where I can't wait to teach another group here soon.

Speaking of that, if you want to take a childbirth class with me, I would love, love, love to teach you.

My next group class is scheduled later this summer, like end of July into August, and those are for babies due in the fall, you know, September through December.

And if you're interested, just let me know.

We are also in the process of having an online version of this class.

So if that's something you're interested in, because maybe you're not local to me, then please reach out and let me know.

And I would love to organize that for you and get all the details worked out.

Now let's get into this week's episode.

It's hard to imagine in this day and age choosing to have a home birth.

Over 98% of babies in America are born outside of the home.

But choosing to have a home birth for your first birth?

That is even more rare.

Listen to Cayla share her birth stories today and how and why she and her husband decided that home birth was the best route for them and their babies and how God answered her prayers during both experiences in different ways.

Well, welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

I am your host, Cayla Heater, and I have another Cayla on the podcast with me today.

So, Cayla, why don't you introduce yourself?

You're actually our second guest named Cayla.

We've had another guest named Cayla as well.

So that's so interesting.

I don't think I've actually ever met another Cayla.

So that is kind of cool.

Really?

Well, especially not with a C.

Did she have a C?

Right.

No, she had a K and I have a K.

So you are unique with your C.

So I'm Cayla Krop.

I have two little girls and live in the Lincoln, North Carolina.

My husband and I just purchased some land and are trying to start our own little homestead.

We are both passionate believers of Jesus and do a lot of community things and love to host people and have to go over for coffee and live on people in different seasons.

That's a big part of our heart.

Just share a little bit about me.

And it's pretty funny because I'm a Cayla with a C and Krop with a K.

So I spend most of my life correcting people.

I'm a little backwards.

Oh, that is funny.

Yeah, I would have imagined Krop starts with a C.

And a homestead, so that's fun.

That is like dreams and goals one day.

As far as we've gotten is we have chickens in our backyard, and I make sourdough bread, and that's about the end of our homestead.

But that's where we're at right now.

We have 13 acres, so we have a lot of dreams, but we just moved there in July.

So we just got chickens, a barn cat, and we have some blueberries, and blackberries, and an apple tree, and a big tree.

So we're slowly easing in, but I'm very excited.

My dream is to have a milk cow next year.

Yes, yes, that's the goal.

Were the trees and plants already there, or did you plant those when you got there?

They were already there, which was awesome, because a lot of times those things take a long time to cultivate and grow well.

So the blueberries we have, I don't even know, like 50 to 60 bushes, you could pick all day and wouldn't pick them all, but they've been there since 1950.

So they grow abundantly.

It's such a blessing.

Okay, now we're a little off topic, but how did you score that land?

It was totally a God thing.

We'd been looking for a while and kind of had gone back and forth on if we were gonna look for a long-term home or another starter home, because we'd owned a house in Wendell on three acres, and then felt like God told us to move to the Fuqua, Holly Springs area to be closer to community and be able to invest more intentionally in community.

And so we lived in a rental there for a little while, and then we're in the process of looking, and there was a lot of closed doors and things we thought God was calling us into, and it just didn't work out.

And then basically, God told us to sell our backup plan, because we still had our rental house and we're renting it out.

And that was like our classic plan, like buy a couple starter homes, rent them out, be able to retire.

We had this whole idea.

And God was like, that's your backup plan, and I have more for you.

And so we sold it.

And then the day that we went way under contract is when this house, we found it, and it was like absolutely a God thing.

Like the family was there when we toured the house, and they were homeschooler Christian people that had got to tell their story of how God had used the home and the space in their family.

And then it would just like felt like the perfect path for us to like be able to step in and know that what we desire to do there was already being done there and that God had a presence there.

It was really cool.

Wow.

So were their kids like already older then?

Yes.

Their youngest was seven or eight, and their oldest, I think, was 20, and their 20s, I think, are four.

They were moving, yeah, to the mountains to get more land.

Moving on up from their 13 acres to something bigger.

I'm like, oh, 13 acres is enough.

My husband's like, it's a lot to know.

I don't know if we'll ever go more.

It's a lot to take care of.

Well, that is, that's awesome.

That's super exciting.

That is dreams and goals.

You have two babies, you've told us.

So let's talk about the first one then.

How did your first pregnancy go?

How was it like finding out you were pregnant?

What was that whole experience like?

It was very exciting, but a little bit of a whirlwind.

My husband and I had been married nine months, right?

Around nine, 10 months.

And we, it was our first month trying to get pregnant, which was awesome.

We'd been doing like natural family planning to prevent.

So I took, I don't know if you know what that is, but I would take my temperature every day.

I basically was able to track my ovulation through that.

And so the first month we started trying, basically using it the opposite way.

We got pregnant, but I ended up having a ovarian cyst rupture right before we found out I was pregnant.

And so it kind of set this whole, like, I didn't think I was going to be pregnant because of that experience.

And there were so many hard in that, but I think it prepared my husband to have more of an open mind for how I wanted to birth, which was a good, like, looking back on it like, oh, God was using it.

But we had a really, really hard hospital experience with that.

Like, I just, I knew what was going on and nobody listened to me.

And then finally, after they did all the tests that they, like, basically told us I'd have to do or I might die, we found out that I was right with something in my ovary, which is what I thought the whole time.

And so it was, like, just a hard experience.

But then when we found out I was pregnant a week later, I had always wanted more of a natural, like, my mom had had natural births and always talked really positively about birth.

And so I knew I either wanted birth center or home birth.

And my husband is one of seven, and his mom had great birth experiences, but always at a hospital.

So he was like, hospitals where we have babies.

But then because of that previous experience, and just kind of seeing, I have had only negative experiences prior.

I've had good experience now.

But at that time at the hospital, growing up, it was only, we only ever went to the hospital if a friend of ours was sick, or my dad rode motorcycles, one of his motorcycle cycle friends was injured.

And so it just was a space that didn't feel like, where for me personally, safe to have a baby.

And I think hospitals are great.

There's a lot of great officials around here.

But because of the experiences I had prior to that, I just knew it wasn't where I wanted to get birthed.

And so when we found out we were pregnant, we'd started the conversation, but we kind of dove into it a little bit more.

And I think because of that experience, before my husband was like, okay, I'll hear you out.

I'll listen to what you have to say on this.

Whereas before he was kind of like, that's dangerous.

Can I ask you what, like to talk more about your experience with your cyst in the hospital?

I'm just personally interested because I actually as well had several cyst ruptures in my ovaries before I got pregnant for the first time.

And it was excruciating.

Like the pain was excruciating.

And honestly, like thinking back now, I'm like, that was more painful than labor pains.

Yep, I 100% agree.

So you had a suspicion that you were having like a cyst rupture.

Had you had them before or?

I had not.

I thought I didn't know necessarily that it was a cyst rupture, but because we had been trying to get pregnant and I knew where I was feeling the pain, I thought it was either something like an ectopic pregnancy or like I thought it was something related to that.

I didn't necessarily know it was a cyst, but I just I knew where the pain was.

I have had like ovulation pains usually when I would ovulate.

So I knew like, okay, this is where the pain is.

Let's do an ultrasound.

And so I didn't know what it was, but I knew where my pain was coming from.

And they wanted my heart rate was elevated because I was in a hospital nervous, but they want to do like tests on my heart.

And then they want to do a CT scan because of the elevated heart rate and a bunch of different things that now I have more education to be like, let's do this first.

And then it doesn't answer.

But then we were scared.

I was in pain, and it was just not a great experience.

But I did end up, I had a golf ball sized cyst still in my ovary and then a cyst that had ruptured.

And yeah, I agree.

I still am like, that was, I've had two natural births, and that was more painful than my, at least it was quick, but it was much more painful than my labor experience.

Yeah.

Did they give you like, what did they do for you?

I was just remembering like for mine, whenever they finally diagnosed it as well, which they ended up diagnosing it through, the first time it was through ultrasound.

The second time they thought, there's no way I could have another one.

So they actually did do a CT scan.

And then they're like, oh, hey, yes, it was a ruptured cyst.

And then the third time I was like, I know what this is.

We don't need any tests.

I know what this pain is.

They just basically gave me pain medication and said to stay on my back, like to be laying down until they thought all the fluid had drained.

And then once I felt good enough to get up and about again.

But what did you have to do?

Basically, they just sent me home and told me to rest, and then it would go away.

I don't even think they told me to lay down.

I think they just were like, don't push on it.

Don't mess with it.

Just like take it easy, which I was like, I was so mad.

I'm like, that's all you've been doing while I've been in here.

You've been pushing on my stomach.

I was like, the pain didn't last long after.

It was crampy, and I took it easy and stayed home from work, and then was fine a couple of days, and then found out I was pregnant a couple of days later, which was a little bit scary just because I had had the CT scan and everything.

I was like, okay.

I don't know if they did it with you.

I don't know if there's other options for CT scans, but they did the float, like where they said...

Yeah, the die.

And that I know can be dangerous in pregnancy, but I was so early that it didn't cause any issues, thankfully.

Yeah, so nobody knew you were pregnant while you were at the hospital.

Well, and I had told them because I had tracked my ovulation and anything.

They did pregnancy tests, but I'm like, even if I'm pregnant, you won't know.

I'm only like five days past ovulation.

I was like, you wouldn't be able to tell, but I had to just for like safety reasons.

I was just curious about that.

Thanks for sharing.

Okay.

So you find out you're pregnant, and your husband's hesitant about not being in a hospital.

But then after that experience, he was like, okay, I'm open to a outside the hospital birth.

Yes.

So we first looked into the birth center in Chapel Hill, because I'd heard really great things about that.

And it was kind of like a good median for both of us.

Like, I really wanted to go home birth, but I knew that he would feel more comfortable in that environment.

But because this was in end of 2020.

So because of that, and the restrictions they had in place, he wouldn't have been able to go to any appointments or any of the ultrasounds.

They had different restrictions for being in the birth room.

I think he was the only one allowed, and I really wanted my mom to be present too.

Just like I think a lot of other moms experienced in that time, there were just a lot of different restrictions trying to protect moms and babies and stuff.

But we both didn't really want that to be our first experience giving birth.

And so because of that, I looked into some midwives in the area, and he agreed to meet with one.

And she was amazing.

And immediately, he was like, okay, I feel good about this.

And we decided to go forward with her, which was really exciting because I didn't think that I could talk from into home birth.

But then another huge part of him feeling confident going into it is we took the husband coach childbirth class throughout both of our pregnancies, like the Bradley method.

And I cannot recommend that enough.

It was so encouraging for both of us, but especially him.

I am very much someone that studies and I want to be prepared and know all the things.

And especially being the one pregnant, I was like, okay, I'm going to be ready for everything.

And then going through that course helped me understand, oh, he needs to know these things too because I'm not going to be able to advocate for myself or do certain things or remember certain things because my body and my mind is going to be focused on having a baby.

So having him equipped to do that and know, especially going into a home birth, knowing what was normal and what wasn't normal and how to support me and be like, just advocate and love on me in that time was really cool.

It made a huge difference on our birth experience.

I was really nervous because my husband does not like blood or anything queasy or he's not good with medical things.

And so he went from that to being in the birth tub when our daughter was born, which is crazy.

I never would have thought that would have been him.

He's a changed man.

Yes, absolutely.

So did you have like a relatively smooth pregnancy then?

Like no complications, no hiccups?

Yeah, I had a great like normal first trimester nausea, but nothing crazy.

I was really thankful for that.

And then second trimester was great.

The only like complication I had, I had kind of anticipated I have scoliosis, pretty severe scoliosis.

My spine is like an S.

And so it was only with that pregnancy, but with my first pregnancy, I had a lot of pain like nearing the end of the second trimester into the third trimester just in my hips and lower back.

I just made it hard to like walk and function, which was a little bit like mentally defeating.

But then I started regularly going to a chiropractor, which I should have been doing before because of what I know and with my back.

But it made a huge difference in the end of my pregnancy.

I went from like barely being able to stand up for a little while to like being able to function.

And most normally, which was great.

And I think it helped my birth experience as well.

I highly recommend chiropractic care.

That's right.

Another shout out for the chiropractor.

Yeah, I didn't know anything about that for my first pregnancy, but I think I started going near the end of like mid middle, maybe of my second.

And then I went for all my others for sure.

Yes, it makes a big I did it throughout my entire second pregnancy.

And I had no none of the pain in my back that I had had with my first.

So I think that regular care made a big difference for me personally.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Okay, so then tell us how it went at the end.

Like how did labor start?

When did labor start?

I started labor, I think it was like five days prior to my due date, which I was really excited about.

Started having pretty regular contractions like 14 minutes apart, and they slowly got closer.

We thought it was the real deal.

I started, like we got our birth tub ready and everything set up, and we were really excited.

And then they kind of stalled out, started again, and ended up picking up really strong.

Like two days later, we had the midwives come and check me, and I was only three centimeters and like 30% of face.

After like three days of on and off labor, which was really defeating, and we realized I was having progermal labor, which basically is real labor contractions without progression.

And so it feels real.

It's like even after having had both labor, the end of the baby and labor that didn't, it feels exactly the same.

It might not be as intense sometimes it is, but you don't get a baby at the end of it.

It pauses and it's basically your body in a way prepping.

But it was really mentally defeating for me because I didn't know like, okay, can I trust what my body is doing?

Like, why is this happening?

I feel like I'm going through like my prep throughout pregnancy was like, okay, I'm going to labor and I'm going to hold my baby.

So feeling like days of labor and still not having my baby was really hard for me.

And so we kind of just took it easy.

I think like in it, I was really defeated.

But looking back, it was such a sweet time for my husband and I to just like take a lot of time together.

We played a lot of board games.

My mother-in-law came into town and I got to know her better before having her at my birth, which was super special.

It was a really good time.

But then on June 25th of 2021, I like woke up in the middle of the night with contractions and they felt more intense, but I still just didn't know like if I could trust my body or not.

So I like tried to labor for a little while, take it easy, but it just kept getting more intense.

And then our midwife came to check me and I was still exactly the same.

And so I just I think mentally like went downhill.

And then everything got more painful, I think more so because of where I was mentally at.

It felt like I couldn't trust like my body and I was really defeated.

And then I got to the point where I was like, okay, we have to do something because I can't keep like the labor is not stopping and I can't keep doing this.

And so our midwife was going to come one more time before we were going to try like castor oil or something.

And she came and I was still three centimeters, but I was 100% of face.

And so she was like, okay, once you're 100% of face, usually you're on like an hour countdown.

Like however many centimeters you have left to go is probably how many, you know, hours it's going to be before babies in your arms.

And that like changed my mindset wholeheartedly.

I was like, okay, I can do that.

I can do a countdown.

If it's like impossible to know what's going to happen, that was defeating.

But knowing like, okay, I got a couple more hours, I can stick that out.

Did you guys check her head position at all throughout any of that?

So the midwife had a little bit, and I had tried different things like throughout that waiting period, like I did the mile circuit a couple of different times.

I did a lot of walking and stair walking.

And I now, having had both birth experiences, think that the pro-dermal labor is just my body's way of helping my baby get in the best position before like going into full force labor.

And I now appreciate it.

At the time, I was very defeated by it.

Just because with, I mean, even like 10, 15 years ago with how my scoliosis is, they used to like 100% recommend C-section just because like not knowing with my hips being crooked and all these different things, if I'd be able to birth naturally.

And so I think God just paved away for a little bit more work, but it ended in me being able to have like a successful home birth experience.

And so I think it's just my body's way of doing it.

But we did end up doing this basically where you hold your, I think my mother-in-law or maybe our, I don't know, birth educator, we reached out to her to see if she had any suggestions where during my contractions, and this was that day, we would hold like they'd help lift up my belly and then like through the whole contraction and then drop it down.

And I don't know for sure if that made a difference, but I think it did.

After we did that is when I went from three centimeters, like barely a face to fully a face.

And so I think something in that helped.

Because she was low.

She was head down.

She seemed engaged like every time the midwives would check me, they're like, her head's low, but we thought maybe the way that she was angled, it wasn't like fully putting pressure on my cervix or something like that.

So doing that made a huge difference.

And I've been at a birth where we did that same thing.

I was like, this worked.

And her labor kicked up after that.

So I'm like, I don't know what it is, but something in it works.

You've been at a birth?

Are you a birth worker?

Yes, I just started doulaing, actually.

But I've been at three births so far.

I'm very excited.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Hello, doula.

That's so awesome.

I'm very excited.

So you are more in a positive mindset now because the midwife encouraged you.

Yes.

And the labor felt much more able to handle.

And I think it just shows how much your mindset has to make an impact because it went from feeling like I was not able to handle it, fully defeated, to like, okay, I got this.

And I could just mentally handle the contractions a lot better.

And so then probably an hour, an hour and 15 minutes later, I was like, I have to push.

And then the midwife left because I was three centimeters.

I wasn't technically in active labor yet.

So she was going to come back in like two or three hours and check me and then see where it was at, if I was progressing normally.

And so I was like, my body's trying to push.

And so my husband was calling the midwife.

My mother was trying to figure out, like, we can't push.

There's nobody here.

And so luckily, one of our midwives was only, we had a main midwife and then an assistant midwife, which I love, both of them.

And the main midwife lived almost two hours away, an hour and a half away.

The assistant midwife luckily only lived 30 minutes away.

So she started coming immediately, and she told me not to push, because of how my labor had been going.

She was worried it was just, like, me feeling pressure and being exhausted and, like, wanting to push.

So she got there, like, 30 minutes later, which that was very hard, just not pushing.

My body was like, you gotta push.

And so she got there and checked me, and I was 10 centimeters ready to go.

And so it had been, like, this slow build until, like, it happened like that.

And so I started pushing, and that was, like, the best experience of the entire birth, which I think was God's, like, little gift for me, just because my birth had felt really defeating and not what I had prepared for it all.

And so then having just, like, pushing, I felt like I could control it.

I mean, kind of, but, like, something that I could work towards, and I knew it was like there was going to be an end.

And it just felt like I was laughing in between the contractions, which had not happened before that.

And it was just, like, a really joyous time.

And I pushed for, like, right in an hour.

We actually have a photo of my main midwife running in the door, like, pulling in a glove, as, like, me and the other midwife are catching the baby out of the water, which is pretty cool.

So she made it, but barely.

And so she was born.

And then we had a flight issue when she came out.

The core was wrapped not around her neck, but, like, down her neck and in between her legs.

But we thought originally it was her neck.

So there was, like, the midwife was trying to help.

The other midwife stepped in.

Joel was trying to help my husband.

She was just all tangled up.

And so it ended up the core got pulled.

Oh, did it snap?

It didn't snap, but it tore.

It tore, yeah.

So they didn't know exactly what was happening at first, because there was blood.

Blood in the water.

Yeah, so they had me get out of the tub, which I was a little bit bummed about, because I had this whole idea of, like, resting the tub with my baby.

But it ended up being totally fine.

My main worry was like, I'm like, are you going to do the thing where you, like, sweep everything?

But they checked, and it was just the cord that had ripped, and there was no issues with my placenta, which was great.

Still, obviously, wish that it had not ripped, but there was no problem with my placenta, so I was able to birth my placenta.

And then they, like, snuggled me up with baby.

She, like, nursed right away.

It was my first time, so she definitely didn't latch right, which I learned quickly after that what is comfortable and what isn't.

And then they tucked me into bed, and it was just, like, a beautiful, amazing experience.

Like, I think that's the best part about a home birth.

I mean, there's a lot of good things.

But for me personally, being able to get tucked into your bed with, like, your clean sheets and your, like, pillows and everything, was just like, oh, this is great.

I don't have to go anywhere.

They're gonna come to me.

This is awesome.

Yeah.

I mean, I agree, obviously, because I've had home births, too, and I really...

Oh, that's awesome.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, my last two were home births.

But I didn't have a home birth first.

Now, I was in definitely a different mental state and wasn't even trying to have a natural birth the first time around.

But I feel like I have a lot of guests on here who birth at a hospital first or maybe birth at a birth center first, and then later on, they birth at home, because it's like they want to see, like, how their labors go before birthing at home, or they want to see, like, you know, if they can do this or whatnot.

But you chose to give birth at home the first time.

Mm-hmm.

Can you talk to the moms out there who desire a natural birth, who've thought about home birth, but don't feel confident doing home birth the first time around?

What would you say to them?

Like, what made you feel confident to choose home birth the first time?

I think personally for me, it was just doing a lot of research and hearing a lot of birth stories that were just mixed birth stories, like positive ones and ones that were not so positive gave me a well-rounded view on, okay, what of this do I want to take, what of this do I not want to take, and what shapes their different birth experiences.

And again, I think the bottom line for most people is hospitals are great, and a lot of people love birthing in hospitals.

Birth centers are great.

Home births are great.

It comes down to where you feel safest, and some people feel safest in a hospital and having different options.

For me, I just knew I didn't feel safe in a hospital, and I wanted a home birth experience.

And so I took, I think, one of the best things you can do is take some sort of birth class with your spouse or yourself and to get educated so that you know whether you're going into a hospital birth or a home birth, like what things you want to say no to, knowing that you have a voice to say no or yes to things.

And then it can give you more just information and a basis to be like, oh, a home birth is a safe option when I have the right support and the right knowledge.

Because I think that is a lot of times why people don't choose a home birth for the first one is they don't know what it's going to be like.

It seems like not as medically safe having a home birth, but when you dive into it and do research and you find a care provider that you really trust and you feel comfortable with, you understand just how birth works and we're meant to do it, and our body's built to do it.

And if there is a complication, it's not like you're just left there if you're doing a home birth, especially if you have a midwife that's equipped.

There's free birth people out there and that is awesome.

I don't know if I will ever be that person, but I think that's incredible.

But midwives have tools to help support you and maybe if there ever was an emergency, to get you to the hospital.

So I think that's a lot of times a misunderstood thing about home birth is like, okay, you're just going to do it and hopefully nothing goes wrong.

But if there ever was an instance where something went wrong, if you are hiring a midwife, there is support and medical things that they have.

Basically, the resources you need to get from where you're at to a hospital, if there is a long-term issue, or which I'll share a little bit when we share about that.

But with my second, I hemorrhaged and they had the resources to help me, and I didn't have any issues and was able to still settle in at home.

And so, just I think understanding like the actual information about what a home birth can look like, and that it can be really safe even if something goes wrong.

And also, oftentimes nothing does go wrong if we're educated, informed, and know what our body is capable of, and how to move our body to get things moving, even if it's not like traditional like my labor that was on and off and weird.

Like I still was able to have a super healthy baby and mom at the end of it.

And just having like more education and information, I think bottom line helps you make an educated informed decision on where you feel safe to have a baby.

Does that make sense?

It made sense to me.

I'm guessing you had then a good breastfeeding experience after that.

Yes.

I, yes.

It was definitely painful at first, which I don't think I fully anticipated.

She nursed great and I quickly learned how to get her on well, but I did have a lactation consult and come.

I think she was four or five weeks old because I had some concerns about how she was nursing, like if she was getting enough because she would not nurse very long.

She nursed like five to 10 minutes and then be done.

But she was gaining weight normally, and but as a new mom, I was like, I don't know if I'm doing something wrong.

My friends are nursing their babies 30 minutes to an hour, I don't know.

So she came and it was really encouraging, and she showed me some different positions in nursing because I was kind of stuck in the football hold, and so that was really helpful.

And then she weighed, like did a weighed feeding.

So like weighed the baby, then I fed the baby, then she weighed, and she got like three and a half ounces in like the five minutes she nursed.

And so I just had a really forceful way down, and she was efficient.

And so that was really encouraging.

So definitely a good, even if you're having like a OK or good experience breastfeeding, I think it's always good to look into different resources.

And I know a lot of hospitals have lactation consultants like available.

So you have the resources, definitely get the information because it can be really helpful and encouraging.

You're like, OK, I'm doing this right, especially as the first time.

I'm like, you have no idea.

I had no idea.

Right.

You can prepare all you want, but you don't know what it's going to be like till you experience it a lot of times.

That's true.

So then how long after that did y'all wait until your next pregnancy?

So we actually had we got pregnant on accident two months later and then had a chemical pregnancy.

And so that kind of changed our minds out when we were going to get pregnant again.

Our plan originally was to wait probably till our daughter was like a year and then think about getting pregnant.

But because of like the surprise of getting pregnant and then having an early loss, we're like, OK, let's just see what happens and like kind of trust God's timing and like what he wants to do with our family, because we feel like we like had this up and down of like, oh, we weren't prepared for this and now we're excited.

And then that like just being at a point of being like, OK, got it.

You're ready for us to have more kids.

We're ready.

And so I got pregnant six months after my daughter was born with my second daughter in December of twenty twenty one.

So my first daughter was born June twenty twenty one and then got pregnant in December twenty twenty one with my second daughter.

And we were really excited.

It was like wild and like a lot of people thought we were crazy.

But after having the previous experience, we were like overjoyed and just really excited and loved the idea of our kids being close together.

We always knew we wanted them close.

But our original plan was like two years.

And so we found out we were pregnant, got really excited about it, and then immediately went back to our previous midwives and were really excited to continue doing care with them because we had had such good experience.

OK, so that's amazing.

Then your second pregnancy, did it go just as smoothly as the first one?

Yes, it was even better.

I was working out throughout that pregnancy.

I started, I think, three months postpartum with my first daughter, working out regularly with a personal trainer and had just a great experience.

And so I did that throughout my whole pregnancy.

And I think it made a big just difference in what I was physically able to do.

My back pain, having regular chiropractic care and regular exercise helped a ton with all of that.

So my pregnancy with my second daughter, Salah, was just great.

It was awesome.

I mean, like, they were definitely normal, hard things.

I had some nausea, but not as much with my second daughter, which made me think I was having, like, a boy.

It just felt like this is so different.

And then I ended up being a girl.

So you never know.

Pregnancy can be super different even if it's the same gender.

Oh, yes.

And so, yeah, I didn't have really...

I mean, I had some normal back pain or, like, you know, different things that I got closer to then.

But it was a really, really great pregnancy and experience.

And I also think it was a lot easier because I was not working at that time.

I was home with my first daughter.

When I was pregnant with my first, I was still working.

I was nanny full time.

So it was a lot of time on my feet and moving around with, like, bigger kids and stuff.

So it was nice just being home with a six-month-old.

I was like, this is easy beating compared to chasing around a five-year-old and three-year-old.

That's true.

It is easier, I would say.

I mean, some people would say having kids close together is harder, and there are hard things about it.

But taking care of a six-month-old is probably a lot easier than taking care of a three-year-old, honestly.

Yes.

Yeah.

That was one thing that I was surprised with, having them so close together.

A lot of people thought it would be a lot like had the just mindset that it would be a lot harder.

And I was like, this is actually great.

She still naps twice a day.

I can have the only part that definitely was harder with breastfeeding still while I was pregnant just because I had a lot of nipple soreness and things that made it harder and different concerns with my supplies.

I got further along in my pregnancy, but she was able...

I stopped nursing her right before she turned one, like a week before she turned one.

So it was like a countdown at the end, which was the only thing that I think was a little bit sad for me because I didn't want it to be like, I'm just surviving this.

But it was just like, I think a lot, emotionally and mentally being pregnant, like seven months pregnant and breastfeeding and stuff.

But we made it, and it was great.

I was proud of myself at the end of it.

I survived.

And I did have some issues with low blood sugar and low iron, actually, now that I'm remembering.

And I think that was partially because for me, trying to stay on top of just eating and things like that with breastfeeding and being pregnant was harder.

But I had not had those issues in my first pregnancy, which is really interesting because my mom, I'm the oldest and she had none of those issues with me.

But then with my sister, who is the second, she had low iron and has had low iron since, and I've had low iron since my second pregnancy and baby, which is really funny how that works.

Well, also, I know that going through pregnancy and breastfeeding is very depleting of all the supplies that we have in our bodies.

Yeah, and I think that was a big part of it.

Yeah.

So now you're getting ready to have baby number two, and how does labor start this time?

It was very similar to my first, which I was hoping would not be the case.

I was due, we didn't for sure know my due date was like a range, August 22nd to August 30th, because I had not had, my cycles hadn't gotten regular, so we were basing it off ultrasounds.

And some ultrasounds, she'd measure bigger, some she'd measure normal.

So we had like a week range where we thought my due date was in.

And so I started having contractions August 6th.

And I was pretty sure they were pro-dermal contractions, but it's so hard to tell.

So I just took it easy and rested, and had them on and off for like a week.

And then it was the 13th or 14th.

They picked up and got really intense.

We called my midwives, thought it was a real deal, had our doula there and everything.

And I labored pretty intensely for like five hours.

And then they just stalled out.

And my midwife checked me, and I was like two or three centimeters, exactly what I'd been like when she checked me earlier when the contractions first started.

And so it was easy to start to go down that really defeated mindset again like I'd had with my first daughter.

But my relationship with the Lord during that year, pregnant with my second daughter, had grown so much just like a year of surrender and understanding how many things that God knows that we don't know and just trusting in that.

I had a much better closeness with him in that, and that made a huge difference.

I had a relationship with the Lord with my first daughter, but it was still very early in figuring out what that looked like in day-to-day life and in things like hard situations I hadn't quite figured out or really trusted him with that.

And so with my second daughter, it was so cool to see what a difference it made having just like he was there.

And not that he wasn't there with my first daughter, but I wasn't really inviting him in that space.

I was kind of doing it on my own.

Like, I got this, I can handle this.

Whereas with my second daughter, it was like, I can't do this.

You've got to give me the strength because I feel defeated and I don't want to do this again and have to not know when I'm going to have the baby and have all this on and off labor.

And so I just gave it to him.

Not even praying for it to stop, but just like, okay, I can't do this.

Can you give me the strength to do it?

And he did.

And that time of waiting and contractions, I'd have a day of labor and then it stopped.

It felt like it wasn't defeating.

It was like, I can do this and God's with me and he's doing what he needs to do to help bring my baby here and I'm going to trust that and everything looks good.

The whole time, same with my first daughter, baby's heart rate was great, I was healthy.

There was no other concerns.

It was just hard work for my body.

And so that continued on up and thankfully, it was not as intensive or full on as it was with my first daughter.

Like I would have a couple hours of contractions and it stopped for a few days.

And so it was a lot easier to manage with my second.

And then on August 30th, I started having, which was like, it was so hard for me because I'm like, am I a week late?

Am I a day late?

Like because of my not knowing the due date.

I was so ready to have her at that point.

And we'd done like red raspberry leaf tea and all that, which is actually kind of a side note.

But interesting, I did that with my first daughter.

I did it from like 34 weeks, I think, or 36 weeks on till she was born.

But then I didn't do it with my second daughter earlier because I thought that might sometimes red raspberry leaf tea can make your uterus, your contractions stronger because it makes your uterus, like helps strengthen your uterus.

So I didn't want to do it earlier because I thought maybe that would help me not have to return the labor.

And then when I had it and was trying to like get things going, I started taking it like, I don't know, probably a couple days before my daughter was born.

And the only difference, this is my experience, but I noticed with having had it throughout like the end of my pregnancy and then not in my postpartum bleeding was way less with my first started than it was with my second.

Like I stopped postpartum bleeding two weeks after with my first and with my second was like more of the classic like five to six weeks.

So don't know if it's that's the only thing that was different though, so that I did.

And I've heard it can make a difference with like period and like all kinds of things because it helps tone your uterus.

But it did not make a difference on me not having pro dermal labor, which was a bummer.

But that's okay.

So contractions started August 30th, but they were like 30 minutes apart, which I'd never had that like with my first start.

Even when they were pro dermal, they were after the beginning of being for their part, they stayed like two, three minutes apart, almost constantly.

And so 30 minutes apart, I was like, this is weird, what's happening?

I like kind of called my husband to do his work, but I wasn't worried.

Like they were painful, but they weren't awful.

And then that so I labored that day, but it was so far apart, it was easy to just like kind of function and be normal.

And then slept fine that night, which was great.

And then the 31st, my husband decided to stay home from work just because they were happening regularly even though they were far apart.

And slowly throughout that day, the 31st, they got more and more intense and a little bit closer apart, but they were still really manageable.

And it was like, honestly, very much one of my prayers for labor, which was so cool to see.

That was not something I'd done with my first, I kind of just had like, this is my birth plan.

This is what I'm doing.

Whereas with my second, I had a, like I said, a harder surrender.

So it was a lot of praying for like, okay, God, these are my desires, this is what I really would like.

Ultimately, whatever is going to keep me and baby healthy, like that's what I want.

But I would love like these different small things that would be really special to me.

Like I really wanted the baby to come like on a Thursday, because my husband has Thursday Fridays off.

So it would be easier for him to have more time at home and he would do some business.

So he can't take a lot of work off easily because he doesn't get paid if he doesn't work.

And so like that was a small prayer that like came true.

And like there's so many little things that I had asked, not even with an expectation of it happening, but just like giving it up and like taking the time to pray about it made such a difference, and a lot of those little prayers came true.

And it just, it's cool how God cares about even the little desires of our hearts.

So he can stand on from work and we had a great, great day.

It was so special, like having it be such a slow start to labor.

I was able to play with my daughter and we went to a coffee shop and like, we just had a really fun day, like kind of ending the era of being a family of three, which was really special, especially with my daughter being really little, it was fun to have that time just as a family to soak it up.

So then we put her to bed and contractions started getting really intense around 11 p.m.

midnight.

Up until this point, like they were uncomfortable, like I would definitely have to like stop and breathe through them, but I was still like, I don't know, it was not awful.

And then around 11 p.m.

like I got in our bathtub and was just relaxing, trying the combs.

I had done that with my first, like I'll try the people do the combs in their palm to help with pain management.

I tried that and was doing that, and we decided to call my mom at that point, like it was around midnight, 1230, just because my daughter was waking up, which she never did, but I think she said something that's different.

And so my mom got there around like 1130 to help with her so that Joel, my husband, could be fully present with me.

She got there and she was like, call the midwife.

Because we'd not call.

I was like, I don't want to call again until I know for sure this is happening.

Things are still happening slow.

I had this idea in my head that I was like, okay, when I have my bloody show, I'll call them because that had happened three hours, right after I hit, a little bit before I hit 100% of face with my first daughter is when I had my bloody show.

And so I was like, okay, whenever that happens, that's probably a good sign that we'll call them.

But that can happen in a bunch of different time periods, and slowly, not in a big period.

But anyway, so my husband was, I think, still a little worried that it wasn't the real deal because it was very similar to how intense it got at the end of my prodermal.

So he was like, let's try laying down and see if things slow down.

And so I did that.

And I always, for me personally, laying down is when contractions get the worst.

Like if I'm moving or if I'm in water or if I'm standing up, they're a lot easier.

But laying down has always been the hardest for me to labor through that.

And so when they didn't slow down, when I laid down, he was like, okay, this is happening.

So we called the midwife and we called our doula.

And she got there probably 30 minutes later, and the midwife, both of them were an hour and a half away with where we lived at this point.

And so I got in the birth tub at this point and was laboring.

And it was hard, but it was a very different mental experience than with my first starter.

My prayer throughout my pregnancy was just to be able to praise through the contractions and be able to be present enough to be excited for what I was working for, not just like, I don't know, handling it or like overwhelmed, just to be really understand what was happening and be mentally there.

And that was definitely the case.

Like even up until the end, like I was present.

I wasn't like I was in my own area, but it wasn't defeated or just like overwhelmed or screaming through contractions or anything.

Like my first starter was more of that experience with my second was like I was intentional with how I was breathing.

I was singing through contractions sometime.

Like it was very much an intentional experience, which is really powerful and cool to experience.

It was absolutely God answering prayers and my mindset focused on God, you're bringing this baby here and I'm going to praise you for every hard contraction because it means that my baby is closer.

And so the doula got there like 2 a.m.

and she was really helpful in just reminding me to relax so that my husband could be kind of like in front of me and she could be like doing counter pressure or paying attention to how I was breathing and stuff.

It was awesome because we'd not had a doula with our first.

I wasn't sure how I'd like that because I really wanted my husband to be like my support person, but it was awesome because she was basically my husband's support person so that he could be what I needed to be and it was a great experience.

So then the assistant midwife got there.

She got there like 3.30, I think.

And then like 15 minutes after that, I started to feel the urge to push.

And so I asked her to check me because she hadn't checked me yet at that point.

And I was like almost 10 sending years, but she said that I had a little bit of cervix left.

And so I was like, OK, I'm going to labor a little bit more like it's not overwhelming yet.

Just kind of feel the urge.

I'm just going to keep laboring.

And I was at this point like up in the birth tub, but going up and down to the bathroom constantly.

And one of the times this is like 4:03 a.m.

or something.

I got up to go to the bathroom when I was on the toilet.

I had a contraction, which the toilet's great for dilating, super helpful.

I did not like glimmering the toilet because it's super helpful for all those things.

It was always a little bit more discomfort.

I wouldn't say painful, but just not comfortable for me.

But on that contraction, like my body started pushing and I was not anything I could do about it.

And so then my wife was like, OK, let's get you in the tub.

Like, you're ready.

Your body's doing it.

You're ready.

Let's go.

So they got me to the tub.

And in my head, I was like, OK, like, I know what pushing is like.

This is the one part I got down.

I had a great experience with my first start.

Like, I can control this part.

Not the case with my second.

She's my wild child.

I started pushing and immediately the fetal ejection reflex took over, which basically means my body was pushing.

I was not pushing my uterus and my body was doing all the work, and there was not much I could do to stop it.

So I started, like, trying to, like, move my whole body back and, like, not push because I wanted to, like, do it slowly and, like, help, you know, me stretch naturally so that I didn't, like, tear anything.

And that was not an option.

Baby was coming.

She wanted to come quickly.

And so I started pushing in the tub, like, 4-8, 4-08 a.m.

And then first contraction, my water broke, and I was crowning.

Second contraction, her head came out.

Third contraction, she was born at 4-15 a.m.

It was, like, boom, she was out, and she was, she had a little bit of, like, gunk, I think part of because of how fast she came out, but they had to, like, just help rub her and get her crying, but she was totally healthy and great.

And just, like, amazing.

It was super, just, like, super hard, but my dream birth in so many ways and an incredible experience, and I felt amazing after it.

I was like, this is the best, this is great.

We did it, we made it.

And so then they let me birth the placenta in the pool, which was awesome because that was another one of my prayers that I hadn't really gotten to, like, rest in the tub with my first daughter.

It was just a really peaceful experience, and I just got to hold her and be there with her, and it was awesome.

But then I started bleeding, so they, my husband started doing, held the baby and did skin to skin with her, with her still attached to the slenda, and my mom was having, like, carried around in a little metal bowl.

She was very helpful.

Within the bowl started, like, leaking, which I don't even know how that happened because it was a metal bowl, so they had to put, like, another bowl under it.

That's the whole thing.

But my poor husband, he did great with all that stuff.

In birth afterward, when the adrenaline died down, he's a little bit more like, okay, I don't want to look at that.

Super great, but can it be over there?

So they put me in, like, we had a recliner with, like, chucks pads and everything.

So the midwife put me there and was trying to see what was going on because my first thought was like, this baby came out so fast, I tore.

I'm like, that's what happened.

I just know because I didn't have any tearing with my first daughter.

I had what they called, like, road rash with her, which is basically like tiny tears and bruising, but nothing that was, like, severe.

And so in my head, that was, like, the best case scenario.

And healing was okay with her.

Like, it was definitely, it was hard to sit for a couple of days, and, like, going to the bathroom wasn't super comfortable, but it wasn't awful.

So in my head, after having that, like, purposeful, pushing experience, I was like, this felt like probably everything is right.

It's fine.

They checked me, and I had no tearing, no issues or anything, but I was hemorrhaging.

And so they gave me, I cannot remember, it was like a homeopathic thing they put under my tongue that helped, and it did slow down the bleeding, but then I kind of had another, like, episode of bleeding.

And so she had me immediately latch on the baby and gave me another one of those doses, and it was enough to help the combination of breastfeeding because that helps your uterus contract, and me having whatever the homeopathic remedy was helped slow down the bleeding.

They were getting, they had pitocin, and we're getting that ready in case that didn't work, but thankfully it did because I think that if the other midwives were there, they might have given me pitocin quicker, but I'm kind of thankful that they didn't have to and were able to get it under control with natural remedies.

That was a huge blessing, but I'm glad they had that in case it didn't.

So the bleeding stopped.

I felt great.

I was like, can I take a shower?

I want to take a shower and tuck in with my baby.

They're like, no, we're going to half carry you to bed because you lost a lot of blood, and we're going to tuck you in.

And so they tucked me into bed, checked everything.

Placenta was great.

There was no issues with anything.

Baby was awesome.

She weighed a little bit.

She was 7'11.

My first daughter was 6'4, so she was a good bit bigger than my first daughter, which was interesting.

And she immediately nursed, latched on great.

No issues.

And I think having the experience from my first, I knew how to get her on right the first time.

So I had no pain or issues with her throughout nursing, which was awesome.

And then I did end up, after the midwives left, I was a little bit overconfident.

I let my mom hold the baby and wanted to go to the bathroom on my own.

I was like, go pee.

I'm fine.

And I passed out.

Yeah, I was going to say.

You need help going to the bathroom.

Yes.

I felt amazing.

I was like, I can do this.

But no, I cannot.

And I needed to listen to my care provider.

So they held me back in the bed and called my midwife.

She was like, don't let her get out of bed.

If she has to go to the bathroom, you can half carry her to the shower and let her sit and pee there.

Yeah.

But she's not, don't let her stand up.

Because they said with how much, my blood pressure was fine, which was strange, but with how much blood I lost, like basically when I stood up, there wasn't enough blood to go from my brain to my toes, so it was like reset so that you can chew that.

Yeah.

And they, I think it was partially because of my low iron.

I never really got it fully under control.

I didn't really think it was, having that experience now, I'm going to be much more intentional next pregnancy, just because I did like iron supplements and things, but I wasn't really on top of it.

And I think that did make a difference in why I hemorrhaged and I hadn't with my first, but I'm not 100% sure.

But luckily, everything turned out fine.

Oh, the only other thing I did have that I forgot to mention with my second daughter was I had varicose veins throughout my pregnancy, which I had not experienced at all with my first.

And that was really hard.

And I had them on my leg some, but I actually had them internally as well.

Those are painful.

Yes, it was very painful.

I can't believe I forgot about that.

Sorry to jump back into pregnancy.

But yeah, it was very painful, and it was really hard, because it's not like something you can easily talk about.

Like, my back hurts.

I'm like, oh, I'm not up for doing this because my back hurts.

But with that, I was like, I can't stand up for a long period of time, but I'm not going to be wide.

But I think that's part of why my pushing experience was more painful with my second daughter.

Yeah, and just because of that.

But as soon as she was born, I felt amazing, and they went completely away.

It was the next day, no issues.

They were gone.

Yes, which was great.

That was something I had heard people say, but I wasn't sure.

You're always like, it's going to be like this forever.

And then they went away.

As an encouragement to anyone experiencing that, they do go away.

And the ones on my legs have stayed, but they were never really bad.

It was just like you could see them, but I didn't really feel them.

But yeah, my postpartum experience with her was awesome.

My postpartum always feels great, and I'm not as good about resting afterward.

And so that's something I want to be more intentional in the future about because I had like three days after we went to like a barbecue, and I was like, this is great.

I feel awesome.

I was like, I should rest.

I'm going to be a lot about that.

Yes.

Yeah.

But it was a great transition with my first daughter.

She loved, I mean, loved her baby and was like super sweet.

And the only thing she struggled with a little bit was whenever my husband would hold the baby for the first couple of days, she's like, hold me too.

But I think it was mostly because I was around moms and other kids and like holding friend babies all the time where she hadn't really seen daddy hold another baby.

So it was like, wait a minute, mom hold another baby is normal.

Why is dad holding another baby?

And then he got used to it really quickly and didn't have like, and it was a very smooth transition.

And it's super cool seeing them now.

They're like best buds now that they're two and a half and 16 months, and they're like best friends already.

That's very special.

Oh, that's really sweet.

Well, before we end, was there anything else you wanted to share or any advice for any moms out there or just anything at all to wrap us up?

I think the only other thing that I feel like kind of relates that was really special for me personally that may as well help other people, when I think a month after my second daughter was born, I had this just moment with the Lord where I had this realization of His love for me and understanding for me.

And I think that's one of the really cool things with having your own child, is you have this love for someone that you've never met before, that you're sacrificing your physical body and your emotional, you know, mental space for.

And just understanding that that's how much the Lord loves us is really special.

You can understand it, but I feel like there's such a deeper understanding when you have your own person that you do that for.

Like you go through physical suffering and everything to then understand.

I know how much God loves us, but I had been raised in faith, and then my parents left when I was young.

And so when I came back to knowing the Lord, it was a long walk of like learning to trust him again and feeling like just working through a bunch of different things.

And so after my second daughter was born, I got like baptized for the first time, which is something I've been wanting to do for years and just kept putting off.

And afterward, I had this realization of the prodermal labor that I'd experienced is how God, how Jesus had been feeling towards me like all those years that I had been walked away from my faith, just that he'd gone through the suffering, he got through the pain, and he was just waiting for me to come back.

And it just related so perfectly to me, like laboring and waiting to meet my baby, doing all these physical things, trying to meet my baby, and having that love and being ready and just having to wait till my baby was ready.

It was so cool how he connected that and made it feel so intentional for me to be able to understand his love for me on that deep level.

Like he knew what it was like to suffer and wait, and that he was there with open arms ready for me whenever I was ready, just like I was for my baby.

It was really special for me to just understand that on a deeper level, personally.

I'm sitting over here with goose bumps.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was very special for me to just have that, I know, from the Lord.

And I think that motherhood is really cool.

It's a really cool thing.

And it's cool how it connects to so many different parts of the Gospel and God's love for us.

And just how He sees us and knows us and how we see and love our kids is really cool.

I agree.

That's awesome.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much, Cayla, for coming today.

It's been great talking.

Thanks again for joining us today.

You can reach me at Surrendered Birth Services on Instagram or email me at contact at surrenderedbirthservices.com.

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We hope you have a great week, and remember, learn all that you can, make the best plans, and then leave it in God's hands.