028 - Six Month Anniversary Q+A: How to Switch Providers, PCOS & Breastfeeding, How to Have Faith After a Loss, How Chris & I Met and more!

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SHOW NOTES:

Our six month anniversary Q & A episode is finally here! We talk about everything from how to switch providers graciously, troubleshooting issues with PCOS and breastfeeding, to how do you know when to stop having children, or how can you have faith after a loss? And a couple of personal questions too, like how my husband and I met, and...when are we going to share Indy's birth story? All this and more on today's episode!

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Here are the links to the items I mentioned in this episode:
Earthley Magnesium Lotion: https://earthley.com/product/good-night-lotion/ref/kayla.heeter/

Perfect Supplements Magnesium Capsules: https://www.perfectsupplements.com/perfect-magnesium-citrate-180-vegetable-capsules/?Click=65d7b480299b3

These are my personal affiliate links and I do make a very humble commission when you choose to purchase through these links, and assists to upkeep the podcast.

TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surrendered Birth Stories.

Birth Stories, Birth Education, and the Pursuit of Surrendering It All to God.

Let's get started.

Hey, everybody, it is our six-month anniversary here.

I can't believe we have been doing this podcast for six months already, but it is here, and so is the long-awaited Q&A episode.

And on that note, I just want to maybe apologize for a second, because the week we recorded this episode was the same week that that horrible viral stomach bug hit our household.

So, both Chris and I were so tired when we recorded this, but we didn't plan to have the stomach bug hit our household whenever we planned to record it.

So, I just want to apologize for how completely tired we were.

We even talked about re-recording it, but then I hadn't yet gotten the stomach bug at that point, but then I got it the next day, and it took a very long time to recover for me.

So, there was no re-recording it at that point.

So, I just prayed to the Holy Spirit speak through us, even if it's maybe not exactly how I would have done it if I could do it again, or maybe I didn't say the perfect words that I wanted to say.

I was running on very little sleep, and I just prayed that the Holy Spirit speaks to everybody out there in the way that they need to be spoken to.

I'm still tired, actually.

I'm still kind of recovering a little bit from this.

It has been very hard to get my appetite back, and so that's made nursing very hard.

My milk supply went down.

I had to nurse extra, so we were up a lot more at night.

So, you know, it's just been like a whole thing.

But hopefully, that will all be behind us very soon.

We did, for those of you who are wondering, we did do the whole grape juice and charcoal thing because our two-year-old brought it home to us first from church, I think.

And so he was the first down.

And as soon as he went down, we all started drinking the charcoal and grape juice.

And I will say, it worked, it has worked for three out of the five of us who were doing that.

It did not work for a couple other, myself included.

It did not work for me, but it worked for, it worked for three of us.

So I'm thankful that it worked for some, which is great.

Also wanted to mention that since this is our six-month anniversary episode, I wanted to give a shout out to some of our listeners because actually I have found, I didn't know you could do this, but my husband showed me, you can see where people are listening from.

And although obviously the bulk of it is in the triad of North Carolina, we have some listeners from around the world, which is pretty cool.

So I wanted to shout out my listener or listeners from Frankfurt, Germany.

So I don't know who you are, but I'm so happy that you're listening each week.

And if you want to shoot me a message on Instagram at Surrendered Birth Services, I would love to just meet you.

So shout out to you guys.

That's so fun that we are doing this here in Greensboro and someone from Germany is listening.

So that's super fun for me.

Now, as far as topics go for this Q&A, I thought I would just gloss over some of the questions that we're going to talk about, just so you have a bit of an idea.

We talk about a little variety here.

We've got everything from how do you switch providers graciously, PCOS and breastfeeding, nausea tips.

Boy, do I have a lot for that.

Talking about what questions to ask a doula, if you're interviewing them.

We also have questions that are really hard and that take a lot of faith, like how do you know when to stop having children?

Or how can you even have faith after a loss, such as a miscarriage or a stillbirth?

And then we also have a couple of fun personal questions.

Someone asked, how did my husband and I meet?

And also someone asked, when are we going to share Indy's birth story, our fifth baby?

And so all that and more in this episode.

I hope you can give us grace for how exhausted we were when we recorded this, but you know, the Lord works everything together for our good.

So enjoy.

Welcome to our Q&A episode.

And I am so thrilled to have my favorite guest back with us today.

I'm back, y'all.

It's Chris.

It's been a while.

Yeah, it's been a good bit.

I think the last one I was on was True's birth story, or that bonus episode we did with the kids.

So it's been a good while, at least four months.

Well, it's nice to have you back.

Okay, so Chris is going to ask me the questions, and then I'll answer most of them, but he's going to pipe in whenever and however he can.

We both have wisdom, but Kayla's the really, really smart one.

That's really sweet, babe.

Okay, let's dive in.

Let's do it.

So I really like these questions, by the way.

All these questions came from our Instagram page, by the way.

Surrendered Birth Services, Instagram.

They came either as comments or as direct messages to our Instagram.

So that's where these came from.

Yeah, these are some great questions.

So let's start with the first one.

Some of them are birth related, some of them are personal, some of them are faith.

There's a good mixture, but let's start with some birthy questions.

Yeah, of course.

Birth podcast.

First question has to do with providers.

So the question is, how do you switch providers graciously if you want to make that switch from one to another?

For me, that is a very simple answer, and I would say honesty.

Just be very upfront and honest with them.

If, say, you had a provider for your last pregnancy, or say you're trying to switch providers in the middle of a pregnancy, you just need to be honest with them about why.

This is not the time to worry about offending somebody or hurting somebody's feelings.

And it's not that you're going to go in there and try to hurt someone's feelings.

It's more so that you just need to be honest, and you can be honest gently with truth and love.

Like, you can do it very graciously.

So, for us, we had an OB for our first, and for our second, we wanted to do things differently.

So, we went to our first appointment with our OB, and then while we were at that appointment, I said, I would like to have a natural birth this time, and I would like to have a water birth.

And I know that you don't offer that here.

So, I'm going to be switching providers.

And that was that.

And she was like, okay, good luck.

And that was the end of it, and it was fine.

But, you know, say you just aren't jiving with a certain provider, then you just have to be honest about it.

Because the thing is, if you aren't honest, and you just kind of cop out and stop showing up to appointments and tell them to just...

Or like call one day and they get a request for record transfer, which is normally how things happen, then they're not going to know why.

And it would be good for them to know why, because then if enough people are switching for enough of the same reason, then that would cause them to make some changes.

Like, the systems aren't going to change unless the consumers are changing them.

You know, like it comes from the outside in, so if they're not offering something that you are wanting, then you need to tell them that.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

You can say, you know, it's nothing against you.

I just, this isn't what I'm wanting here.

And whatever that might be, whether it is, you know, water birth or birth outside the hospital, or I don't want to have, you know, a 41-week cutoff, you know, I want to be able to go past 41 weeks, or whatever the thing may be, I would just be completely honest with them.

All right.

Next question is about PCOS.

But before we move on, why don't you just mention what that actually is?

Okay.

Yes.

And I think most people out there would know it's more common now, PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and it basically is what it sounds like, you know, having several multiple ovarian cysts.

And that can sometimes cause women difficulty in getting pregnant in the first place, but I believe this question relates directly to...

Breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding.

Right, so this person is saying, is it really as hard as people say breastfeeding with PCOS?

Right.

So there has been a sort of link between having PCOS and then having a difficult time breastfeeding.

There's not a ton of evidence on it.

It's more anecdotal, but it's not that women with PCOS can't breastfeed.

It's that sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes they have a lower milk supply, which can make it more difficult to not have to supplement with other things like donated breast milk or formula.

So knowing that, there's a lot of hormones involved with PCOS and with breastfeeding, with everything, and so hormones play a huge factor in it.

But you're not going to know if you are somebody who's affected by it until you are breastfeeding, until your baby comes out and you're nursing.

However, I would say proactively ahead of time to do some things and have some things in place in the case that you might have a low milk supply.

First thing I would do is find a lactation consultant who's willing to come to your house within a week of you having your baby.

So they can come and do a formal assessment.

They can watch you nurse.

They can help with latching issues that you might have, but they also can weigh your baby before and after to see how many ounces they're actually getting, which is super helpful to know, because sometimes it's really difficult to know, especially in those early weeks.

I would wait until your milk comes in, just so they have a more accurate picture, but scheduling with a lactation consultant.

And I have some recommended on my website.

So if you go to our website, which is linked to the show notes, in my local resources, I have, if you're in the triad of North Carolina, there are some lactation consultants listed on the page that you are more than welcome to look through.

Also, things to do for a low milk supply in general would be things like pumping after your nursing sessions to try and get your body to produce more milk.

You could be drinking mother's milk tea, taking supplements like fenugreek to help boost your supply.

You want to make sure you are eating and drinking a lot of nutritious foods.

Your body uses a lot of calories to make milk, and if you are not eating enough or drinking enough, then that will not help anything.

Also, lots of skin-to-skin, like right from the get-go, having your baby skin-to-skin on mom, like almost exclusively.

That will help your milk come in sooner and help your milk supply, and just on-demand nursing.

So no passes, no bottles, no nothing else, just only offering the breast until you feel like your supply has been regulated.

That's what I got.

That's great.

Wow, you're like really smart.

No, no, just...

I'm like listening to you over here, and I'm like, I, wow, you're amazing.

Oh my God, can you tell that my husband is words of affirmation?

Oh, if y'all haven't done the love languages assessment yet, that is a fun one for sure.

There are five love languages, and my wife is acts of service.

Hands down, all the way.

So the next question is not necessarily a question, but it is just asking for general advice on something that I am familiar with observing you experience.

So this person wants to know if you have any tips for handling pregnancy nausea.

Oh boy.

Oh boy is a right.

Yes, I have been there.

Okay, yes, I have about a million tips, but yes, we're going to take this one thing at a time.

So something that I learned actually in my fifth pregnancy of all things that actually I do feel like helped me with my nausea this past time and my vomiting was magnesium.

I did not realize just how depleted our magnesium was.

And when I say our, I mean like people in general, but especially pregnant women.

And so, and I learned that magnesium is better absorbed through the skin than it is orally, although I'm not sure you can really get everything you need through the skin just because we're so depleted.

But I did magnesium supplements this time, and particularly magnesium lotion that my wonderful husband would rub my legs at night before we went to bed.

Because of this, I'm very familiar with your legs.

Just the skin on your legs.

I could tell you where all your freckles are.

I have lots of freckles.

Okay, so he would rub magnesium lotion on my legs at night, and not only does that help with restless leg syndrome and muscle cramping, but it honestly helped with my nausea.

And I would notice if there were nights where he wouldn't do it for whatever reason.

Maybe I fell asleep early or he didn't get home till late and I was already in bed or something.

I would notice the next day, I was a lot more nauseous.

So for me, magnesium supplementation was crucial.

I think if I were to ever get pregnant again, I would also supplement orally as well and take magnesium capsules.

And I have...

That's pretty hard when you're nauseous.

It is.

It is hard.

Taking supplements when you're nauseous is a very strategic endeavor.

You have to know exactly when to take and what position to be in and what drink to use it with or food to have it with and laying down right after.

It's a whole thing.

But yes, but it does help with the nausea.

And actually, I would recommend...

My favorite is Earthly Magnesium Lotion.

They have a regular one that has lavender in it, but then they also have what they call a sensitive one that doesn't have any scent, which is my preference.

I do not like smelling anything when I'm nauseous, so I use that one.

And I actually have a link for it in the show notes for you, so you can just click on that and get your magnesium lotion, and I promise it is a game changer.

I will say we had a couple different types of magnesium lotion.

Right.

And as the person applying it, I can't tell quite as much, but goodness gracious, that stuff was different and much more potent and effective than the other ones from what I can tell.

It definitely is.

I just feel like it's a much higher quality.

And then I also have a recommendation for a magnesium supplement to take orally as well from Perfect Supplements, so I'll link that to you.

Anyways, magnesium, magnesium.

Okay, and then all the other stuff you've probably heard, which would be upping your protein intake, which was always so hard because I feel like whenever I'm nauseous, I only want to nibble on carbs.

But that is going to throw off your blood sugar, and the throwing off of your blood sugar is going to make you more nauseous.

So it's sort of like a vicious, never-ending cycle.

So to try and get ahead of it first thing in the morning is most important.

You want to balance your macronutrients with a protein, carb, and fat.

You want to have equal amounts of those, rather than having just a big bagel for breakfast or several bagels.

You want to make sure you're having protein and fat with that.

So eggs would be my number one recommendation.

But I understand food aversions are real in pregnancy.

However, that is what I would recommend.

I know I craved every morning, I wanted like a bacon, egg, and cheese something, whether it was on like toast or a bagel or a biscuit, or I don't know what it was on.

It was on some kind of carb, and then I would have like bacon, egg, and cheese, like all the protein and fat in it.

And that is what helped me get through the mornings.

Honestly, I mean, how many times did you make that or run out and get that for me?

Like, now things that you can try, especially if this is your first time, if this is your first time being pregnant, your first time being nauseous, you have to learn not to eat too much food, but also not to eat too little food.

Like, you have to have food in your stomach at all times.

Like, you don't ever want your stomach to get empty, but you also don't want it to ever get full.

Because when it's full, it'll make you more nauseous, and it can cause you to throw up.

When it's empty, it'll make you more nauseous and can cause you to throw up.

So I would say always have something on your stomach at all times.

And yes, if you can't find the perfect protein, fat, and carb pairing, just eating something in that moment is better than eating nothing, because eating nothing will make the problem worse, I promise.

And also one thing that I think you've done in the past is just always have something on hand at your, either at your nightstand or something that's accessible, especially those early months of being nauseous in the first trimester, just having something there that you can just nibble on.

Right, like eating it before you even sit up in bed, like just grabbing it and starting to nibble on it before you even get up and go to the bathroom, just having something on your stomach.

And you can even eat it in the middle of the night, too.

Like if you wake up in the middle of the night, just have something there to eat.

We used to do that with breastfeeding, with your breastfeeding snack basket.

Yes, yep.

So you always had calories going in because you spent so much time on the nursing chair.

Yep, that's true.

You should have a nauseous basket.

Although then after you get out of the nauseous phase, you would never want to look at that thing again.

That is a word of warning.

Sometimes if you eat something a lot when you're in the nauseous phase, you don't ever want to eat it again.

That's true.

A couple other things.

Some people like the acupressure on their wrists.

There are these little C-bands that you can get on your wrists that some people say help them.

They never helped me personally, but they helped some people.

Always having like hard candy or gum or something, like some flavor in your mouth can help.

Some people, you know, everyone tosses around ginger.

Oh yeah, ginger helps settle your stomach.

Well, maybe.

But for me, it didn't really.

And not if you're having an aversion to it.

Right, not if you're having an aversion to ginger.

But sometimes sour things, you would crave sour things like lemon.

Like lemon drops would, you know, just like sucking on a lemon drop or something.

Or some people liked peppermint, sucking on a peppermint.

With my very first pregnancy, it was gumballs.

Do you remember that?

Oh wow, the white ones.

Yeah, yes.

I would want the gumballs from like those little things that you put the quarter in and you turn it and like out pops a gumball.

Like that's, I would, that's what I wanted all the time.

I would just chew on these gumballs when I was nauseating.

And that was one of my first experiences with you being pregnant and having nausea.

That was your first experience.

Well, there you go.

That's probably why I thought it was towards the beginning.

But I remember thinking, oh my gosh, she's like obsessed with these things.

Yep.

And I was like, this must be, this is a real thing.

And with Milo, with my second, it was Dum Dums, Dum Dum Suckers.

Oh, wow.

We always had a giant pack in the pantry.

We got a bag, and I would just suck on Dum Dum Suckers all day.

Wow.

That was before HG.

Okay.

And then I would say, if you're doing all those things and you're still not getting any kind of relief, I would say the B6 and Unisom combo, which is like your over-the-counter version of like a Diclegious.

So taking a B6 supplement with a Unisom pill, like at night before you go to bed, and then if that's not helping you through the day the next day, then taking like a half dose of that the next morning, and then like if you need another half a dose of that.

And I say this at the end of all my episodes, but just to reiterate, I'm not a medical provider.

This is not medical advice.

This is just things that have worked for me and nausea tips like you asked for.

And many, many, many, many other women.

Right.

And if you are having issues beyond all that, you do all of those things and you are still nauseous, you are still vomiting, and it's like affecting your everyday life, and you are losing weight, or you are not able to get out of bed, things like that, then I would definitely just talk to your provider and see if they can get you some type of prescription.

Because I am not against taking prescriptions.

It's just I'm against taking them when they are not totally necessary.

But I have myself for sure taken prescription medication for nausea and vomiting before.

I've had HG with, I would say, three out of the five pregnancies, the last three.

So HG, we've talked about it in previous episodes, but it's hyperemesis gravidarum.

And it's basically like nausea and vomiting on steroids.

It's like all day every day.

You can't not throw up.

You're losing weight.

You end up a lot of times in the hospital on IV fluids and anti-nausea medication through an IV.

It's bad.

So if that is where you are, please go get some help, because those other tips aren't going to help if that's the case.

And for some women, it lasts the whole pregnancy.

Yes, it does.

And not just the beginning.

Right.

Some women, it only lasts the first trimester.

Other women, like me, it typically goes till about 20, I'd say about 23 weeks is my average.

And then other women, it lasts like the entire time.

So I'm really, really sorry.

Oh, and my last tip, sleep.

Sleep as much as you possibly can in that nauseous phase, because the more tired you are, the more nauseous you'll be.

And you know you're already fatigued from the pregnancy in general.

So I say sleep as often as you can.

And for me, I had to be horizontal.

I had to be laying down flat in order not to be throwing up.

So those are my personal nausea tips.

Yeah, and for the people that are your support people, like a spouse or a partner, like you just have to clarify with them, this might happen to me, and I will really need your help if it happens to me.

Because seeing your intense nausea, I resolved to do whatever it took to make sure that you got through this period of pregnancy.

And if you've listened to the previous birth stories, you'll get a better glimpse of that.

But I remember with True's birth, or with True's pregnancy, you were just laying in bed with the curtains closed.

Dark, dark room, and I was a single dad for, I guess, anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks until you started coming around again.

It was just something.

Yep.

All right, a little bit of a shift away from birth stuff.

The next question is, how do you know when to stop having children?

So this is a very emotionally loaded and very subjective question to answer.

Because it can be very different from one person to the next.

And I think that very much it depends on the conviction of the parents.

However, that God chooses to convict the parents, as far as guiding them towards His will, I think that it's just very different from couple to couple.

So, do you mind if I say a little bit on the subject?

Please do.

So, I'd say first and foremost, one of the most important things with this is that you and your spouse have to be on the same page.

Like, there is no reason to have more children in your quiver if you two are not on the same page.

Because if one person wants a baby, another baby, but one person does not, what would end up happening is if one person, if the person who didn't want the baby caved, what would start breeding is resentment, potentially.

Now, this is not an exact formula, but there is a lot of potential for resentment to happen and take place.

Until you see that beautiful baby.

That's true.

But then come the nights that are more on the sleepless side of things, and then that resentment can still creep back in.

And so one thing that I would say that is really important is that your marriage is more important than this question.

It's more important to have a healthy marriage that is full of, yes, maybe compromise, but also full of understanding and agreement when making big decisions like this.

So I'm not speaking to the whoopsies, the little baby whoopsies, but the intentional choice of are we going to have another baby, just being on the same page, I mean, it's going to help that transition.

You guys are going to be more of a team in parenting and bringing a baby into the world.

And so I think that's really important first and foremost.

I think also what's really important is what's your conviction?

What is your personal conviction from the Lord about this subject, about adding a new family member to your family?

Because I think this can be very different from person to person.

So for me, my personal conviction that I'm not saying is anyone else's, is that I do not feel comfortable pursuing permanent birth control methods.

And the reason is because I feel like if I personally were to do that, it would be like I was trying to play God, and I don't want to be anywhere close to that.

And so when we had previously had a vasectomy schedule, there was a big part of me that felt very uncomfortable with that decision because I look at my kids, and when I look at their faces, and I'm feeling philosophical in nature in that moment, I say to myself, I'm like, how could I have not wanted this?

And I don't ever want to put myself personally in the place of denying another one of these to come to be, at least in terms of our family.

But on the flip side of things, it could very much be that God is closing that door and that chapter for your life.

And so, to sound wildly cliché in Christian circles, I would absolutely pursue the Lord with this with all of your heart and pursue what He wants for your family.

Because ultimately, I think we would all say, especially in terms of surrendering and just being in that theme, that we want what God wants, even if it's hard.

And I think that this is an important message for every family.

I mean, you're reading a book right now.

Heart is Not the Same Thing as Bad.

It's a great book.

Moms, it's a mom book, a Christian mom book, a Jesus-loving scripture-shouting mom book.

And it's really good.

You should read it.

I can link that to if you want.

I will say it with this caveat, though.

Just to keep in mind, if thinking about having another child and your reason not to have another child is a fear, I would say that you need to keep praying about it.

Because we've been in that place before personally, where we weren't sure if we wanted to have another child because of fear of difficulty and fear of losing certain freedoms and fear of elongating the toddler face in our life and fear of not having enough money to support another life.

Fear is not something that comes from the Lord.

And so if fear is your main motivator for making this decision, one way or the other, I suppose, keep praying about it.

Do not make anything final and just be on the same page with your spouse.

I don't know if you'd have anything to add to that.

I think it can be easy to say, make sure you and your spouse are on the same page.

But how do you make sure you and your spouse are on the same page if both of you are feeling opposite about it?

You know, if one person really wants another child and one person really doesn't, I think more so that is that sort of the challenge to me.

That's what I think about, maybe one versus the other.

But the answer is kind of the same.

Both of you bringing that sort of conflict of interest to Jesus until He gives you a peace one way or the other, both of you.

And also resolving to, if you can both commit to having an open mind, even if your feelings don't feel like they're going to sway, if you can both commit to having an open mind one way or the other, then prayer is going to work it out.

And the Lord will speak through whatever prayers you're praying, and He will solidify this answer for you.

But I think that if both parties, I say parties like it's a business transaction, nice.

If both spouses aren't seeing eye to eye, it's a lot lower of a rung to grab to say, oh, I don't want to have any more kids, rather than, or we're just disagreeing on whether or not we're having more kids, but we can actually just keep an open mind about what the next step is, instead of putting a hard stop at it.

I think if you can both agree to not have a hard stop, then at least there is, you put that, the possibility out there for God to move a lot more readily, instead of just drawing a line in the sand.

Yeah, I just wouldn't decide anything until you both have peace.

And I think if you seek God and seek His answer and are listening for His voice, both of you, like paying attention, I think He will speak and He will move.

Awesome.

Next question is, what interview questions should I ask when I'm trying to find a doula?

Great question.

So this is going to be a little subjective.

It depends on what you want from a doula.

So are you wanting them to be your end-all be-all?

Are you wanting them to educate you and be there physically for you and rubbing your back and talking to you and encouraging you and showing your husband everything to do and telling you about like, it's just what are you wanting them to be?

I've had births where, you know, during the consult, the mom said, you know, I think I really just want you in the corner, like interceding for me, and you'll be there if and when we think we might need you.

Kind of like as like a backup support.

But they're like, literally, you can just be interceding.

And I'm like, that's amazing.

Great, sure, of course.

But other doulas might have a problem with that or may not be comfortable with that, you know, not like keeping their hands behind their back and not jumping in.

So it really depends on what you're wanting.

So I would just be very clear up front with as you're interviewing doulas and as you're, you know, jumping on consult calls to say, hey, this is my needs.

This is my vision.

This is what I want.

Can you do that?

And then you'll also, I think, get a vibe.

You'll get a feel.

You can feel whether or not you're clicking with somebody because if this person's going to be in the birth space, you want to feel comfortable with them, and you want your spouse to feel comfortable with them so that no one's feeling any sort of, you know, weirdness or tension on the big day.

Because it is a sacred space.

For sure.

Very much so.

Absolutely.

And you also want to ask them some practical things.

So things like, when do you go on call for me?

When do you go off call?

Is it going to be a group of doulas I'm pulling from?

So if I'm working with a group, does that mean it's just going to be whatever doula is on call from that group?

Or will I be assigned a specific doula from your group who will be at my birth, you know, no matter what?

Or is it a solo doula who's working alone?

Like, is that going to be your one and only?

Asking them what their prenatal support looks like.

Does it come with any sort of education?

Or is it simply birth planning?

Or what's it going to look like postpartum?

How long are they going to stay with you after the baby's born?

Are they going to come see you at your house postpartum?

And if so, what does that look like?

And asking them how long are they willing to stay at a birth?

Do they have a cutoff?

Because if your birth goes for 48 hours...

God forbid.

Right.

And you have them there the whole time, it's like, okay, so you want to talk about those things ahead of time and get all of those things answered.

I would also ask them, of course, to be very upfront with their fees.

I would ask to see their contract ahead of time before you sign it, just so you can ask any questions before signing that.

I always offer that to all my clients.

I'm like, let me send you a copy of the contract, and you let me know if you have any questions.

You do not have to sign it right away.

We can talk through anything.

And payment is almost always on the contract as well.

So if you...

A lot of doulas require full payment by 36 weeks, but a lot of doulas also offer payment plans where you can pay in increments leading up to it.

You don't have to pay a lump sum all at once, or you can.

It's just totally up to you.

And some doulas are even willing to take payments after 36 weeks, like splitting it up that way.

It just depends on who it is.

So those are things I would ask.

So it's going to depend on your needs, but I would just be very upfront from the beginning.

You don't want any surprises at the end.

But making sure that they're the doula for you, they're going to be able to support you in the way that you are seeking support, and that you feel comfortable with them, and there aren't any red flags for you.

Because I would say for me personally, if I was hiring a doula, I would want them to understand what I want out of my birth, and have the same sort of mentality towards birth that I do.

And also, spiritually speaking as well, I don't want someone who doesn't believe in Jesus in my birth space.

Not because I have anything against them, but because I don't want to give the enemy a foothold to come into the birth space.

I want to make sure that everyone in that room is praying the name of Jesus over this birth.

And so even if someone is a really great doula, and super talented, and a wonderful person, and so loving and kind, if she doesn't believe in Jesus, I'm not hiring her.

And again, that's for me personally.

So you just have to keep those things in mind.

It's definitely going to be sort of curated to what exactly you're looking for and what you and your husband feel comfortable with.

Okay, next question is, what was your biggest motivator from going from a birth center to a home birth?

And this is a personal question, I think.

Yeah, I think this is specific to me.

So for me personally, I'm thinking about reasons why you would want to go to a birth center.

A, you're probably trying to avoid the hospital.

B, you want a natural birth, so you don't want any sort of pain medication, drugs, or whatever.

So for those two things, I can do that at my house.

I knew I wanted to have a natural birth, unmedicated, no interventions, all of that stuff.

And I knew I could do that at the birth center, and I had done that at the birth center twice.

However, I realized that while there are several differences between a birth center birth and a home birth, the main difference is who is driving to who.

Or is that whom is driving to whom?

I don't know.

I'm not great with grammar stuff.

You're doing great.

I think people know what you mean, though.

Right, so it's like, okay, do I want to get in my car and drive an hour to the birth center in labor to push out my baby and then turn around and come home?

Or would I rather have that midwife drive to me an hour away, or maybe she's closer, while I just simply stay in my home and birth there?

They have all of the same equipment.

They have all of the same stuff.

It's not like the birth center has a leg up in terms of equipment or supplies or anything like that.

So really the difference was, did I want to get in a car and travel while I was in labor or not?

And I did not want to do that.

I also, I had wanted a home birth starting with my second, and there was an insurance issue, which is the deal for a lot of people.

Like a lot of people can't get insurance to cover a home birth, but they can get it to cover a birth center birth, or at least partially.

But for us, when we switched to home birth, I found out that out of pocket, we were going to be paying a very similar amount to go to the birth center than we would to do it at home.

Like it was within a couple hundred dollars.

So I was like, a couple hundred dollars difference, like that is so worth staying at home for me.

Also, my midwife came to me for all of my prenatals, so I didn't have to travel at that time either for my prenatals, which was wonderful.

And I also knew who was going to be at my birth.

So at the birth center, now there's like seven midwives.

And so you don't know who's going to be on call, and you're not sure who's really going to be there.

And yeah, you'll meet them all throughout your pregnancy, but that's still like seven different people to choose from.

Whereas I knew exactly who was going to be at my birth, the exact midwife and her assistants, because you meet them during the pregnancy as well, which was very comforting to me.

And she knew my kids.

And if you want your kids to be there, they can.

But in the moment, if you don't want them to be there, they don't have to be.

It's up to you.

Whereas if you're going to the birth center, it's like, if you want your kids to be there, you kind of have to decide, like, you know, ahead of time or whatnot.

But yeah, so...

And I've learned since then, too, that I would put insurance and finances and stuff a lot lower on the list than I did initially.

Think about it like your wedding day.

It's like you're planning one of the most important days of your life, something that you're committing to, and you'll never be able to go back and change.

And so if birthing at home is what you want to do, then your insurance shouldn't be, like, the biggest factor in that.

It's like people do all sorts of crazy stuff to pay for their wedding, or they pay tens of thousands of dollars for their wedding, but then for their birth, they're like, oh, that's a little much.

And I'm like, to me, it feels like a much bigger deal.

Like, I don't know, just with, you know, it's your body and your baby's life.

Like, it's, I don't know, it's a whole thing.

Not to see what you're saying.

And it's also, I mean, it's such an important day.

Talking about planning your birth, there are also a lot of variables in there, not quite as many with the wedding day.

Yeah, so I, okay, so I understand, I will just say, I understand why people choose to birth at the birth center because they want a natural birth and they don't want to be in the hospital.

Those are usually the two main reasons.

But a lot of people who are choosing to birth at the birth center for some reason feel like it's safer than home birth.

And it's not.

Like, it's literally the same.

Your midwives have the same qualifications.

They have the same equipment.

They have all the same stuff.

So really, in terms of safety, it's not any safer to birth at a birth center than it is to birth at home.

So that is not a reason to choose a birth center.

Some people choose a birth center because maybe they think it's closer to the hospital.

So say they live way out in the country, and they live 40 minutes from a hospital, and the birth center is only five minutes from the hospital.

Okay, if you're concerned about a transfer, then sure, that would be a more legitimate reason to choose the birth center.

And that's great.

That's what it's there for.

Or say you are in between homes, and you are living in your mom's basement or something, or in staying at a friend's spare bedroom, or like you're building a house, and it's not going to be ready.

You know what I mean?

Like if you're just not in a place where the person who owns the home is willing to let you birth there, then yes, sure, a birth center is a great alternative.

But I know people who have birthed in Airbnbs for sure.

They like rent themselves an Airbnb to do their home birth in when they're in that situation.

So there's that.

But for me personally, it was mainly about why would I drive all the way out there?

And it's not just for the birth.

It's for all your prenatals and your postpartums and all that stuff, when I could have the midwife coming straight to my door and never have to leave my house and set it exactly the way I want to.

And I will just say one last thing.

When I gave birth at the birth center, it was in 2016 and 2019, and that was pre-COVID.

And I will just say, since COVID, a lot of things have changed at the birth center.

Now, is it better than the hospital if you're going for a natural birth?

Yes, it's definitely better than the hospital.

However, it's not as...

There are just a lot more policies in place than there used to be, and a lot more...

It just feels like a lot more red tape there than what it was when I was birthing there.

So I just felt a lot more freedom and a lot more autonomy at home than I did at the birth center.

There's also just something about being in your space when you have a home birth.

It's just comforting, and I've seen you relax in a lot of ways.

You definitely didn't relax at the birth center in the same ways.

And I think that it honestly helped progress your labor too.

For me, a big deciding factor on what I think is a more preferred experience depends on what I perceive your experience to be.

So, I mean, it was really incredible being able to be at home and have babies at home in our bed with our kids either in the room or sleeping a couple feet away.

Yeah, I was definitely a lot more relaxed at home.

And I think part of that was because, yes, this is my space.

So, this is where I'm most comfortable.

But also, knowing that I did not have to drive anywhere allowed me to relax so much more.

Because when you have to drive somewhere to go to your labor or to go deliver a baby, there's always that question in the back of your mind.

You're thinking about it the whole time.

When should we leave?

When should we leave?

When should we leave?

Because we don't want to get sent home, but we don't want to be in transition on our way there.

There's always that question in your mind, and so you're thinking about that, so you can't totally relax.

And then of course, laboring in a car, you definitely can't totally relax.

It's like one of the hardest places to labor in.

And then the dad has all this adrenaline, because he's driving, and his wife's in labor, and I felt that a lot with Jensen's birth.

It was like it was so anxious, because you're driving really, really fast, because I'm progressing really, really fast, and I'm thinking, are we going to have this baby on the side of the road?

This is going super fast.

I'm starting to feel all the things.

And God bless them, we've had friends that that's happened to.

And so, I mean, for us personally, it was just a much better head space, and a much better physical space, and just all the spaces for spiritual too, for me to be at home.

Because also, like I said earlier about the whole knowing who's in your space and having them believe in Jesus thing with your doula, well, I know my midwife loves Jesus, and so do her assistants, and we all pray openly.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, and I got to choose her.

So that made a big difference for me as well.

It's almost like Home Birth is one of the greatest biohacks available.

Because you don't have all this, the extra decisions to make that you would have to make, like you were saying.

And it almost, I mean, from what I saw with you, it relaxed your body a lot, so you could focus on being in labor and being in tune with your body, so that you could have an efficient and effective labor.

It was, my home births were definitely, my two home births were my smoothest, most relaxed births by far.

Our next question is, why do providers not take the time to inform patients about the risks of interventions?

That's really interesting.

I'm very curious to hear your answer.

Okay.

So first of all, I'm going to just say, not all providers, or probably more specifically OBGYNs, are bad.

And same with midwives.

You can have a good midwife or a bad midwife, but I think...

Or a midwife or an OB on a bad day.

Right.

Because they're all human.

But if you get to know them your whole pregnancy, then anyways, I think ultimately those providers are products of a very broken system.

A system that is way more concerned with money than anything else.

Or way more concerned with getting sued than anything else.

And they'll say they're way more concerned with outcomes or baby's health or mom's health or something than anything else.

And so, that's what, that's their claim.

Now, I honestly think, they think, most people, that they think they're doing what's best.

Because it's what they have been trained to do.

They have been trained to intervene.

They have been trained to take action.

And for them, I think, yes, there are definitely some doctors out there who will intervene out of convenience.

Because it is more convenient for them to do an intervention.

Say, pitocin to speed up a labor, so it goes faster.

Or encouraging an epidural, so there's less dealing with mom's pain.

Or there are real statistics out there that the most popular time for C-sections are on Friday afternoons.

So I will just say that if someone's trying to clock out for the night or for the weekend, that's a real thing.

Also, the least amount of C-sections are done on Christmas and Thanksgiving.

So think about that as well, because no one wants to work on holidays.

So just, I don't know.

So do I think there are providers out there who intervene for those reasons?

Yes, C-sections make them more money.

Yes, it makes the hospital more money and it makes the providers more money.

It makes all of them involved more money, and it's definitely more convenient, and their minds may be more efficient.

And when you are working in a system that can treat women like a number or like a product or like an object, something to get through, something to get through from this room to that room and then on out the door so we can fit the next people in, it can happen.

I'm not saying everyone's like that, but if you're asking why providers don't include the risks, I think that would be why.

Now, they're also so used to doing it.

It's so everyday to them.

It's so common to them that they're not thinking really twice about it because they do it all day every day.

Now, the other thing is most of those providers don't see their clients postpartum to see how those interventions affected their clients physically, emotionally, you know, in postpartum going into going into motherhood.

They're not there for that part.

They're just there for the labor and the baby coming out sometimes, and then that's it, and then their job's done, and the mom kind of gets rushed along and moved along to somebody else at that point.

And they go home, and you don't see them again for six weeks.

So any effect that those interventions had on mom, they, you know, long term, they wouldn't know.

And so I think they just don't realize sometimes that.

And so that's another reason why they wouldn't explain it.

Now, sometimes out of time, well, we don't, we're not going to sit here and explain the risk, because we feel like we don't have enough time to do it.

But I think also, if they were to give true informed consent and tell mothers exactly what the risks were of the interventions they were giving, I think a lot more mothers would decline them.

But they present it as if it's not an option a lot of the time, like as if you can't decline it, you know?

They're like, oh, we're going to start you on pitocin now because your labor has stalled.

Instead of saying, we think we should start you on pitocin now because your labor has stalled, would you like it?

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, is that something you would like to do?

Or to give you the opportunity to ask questions about it.

Right.

What will this pitocin do?

What are the effects it will have on my uterus?

What are the effects it will have on my pain if I'm not already with an epidural?

What are the effects it will have on my baby and their heart rate, which is a real risk and a real thing?

So, and it can be as little as IV fluids.

Like, does a hydrated woman typically have a more efficient labor than a dehydrated woman?

Yes, that's true.

So they push fluids.

However, those fluids don't get processed through our body the same way that just drinking water would.

And so those fluids can make your body swell and can make your breasts swell and your areolas swell.

And then when a new mom is trying to latch her baby for the first time and her nipples are completely flat, like, yeah, that's a problem.

And it's something that could have been avoided had someone told her, hey, we can give you fluids.

Benefits would be possibly speeding up your labor because you'll be super hydrated, but it could also cause difficulty breastfeeding.

And so if a mom were to hear that, who wouldn't know that otherwise, then that could be a reason for her to decline.

But then again, then they can't charge you for the fluids.

Like, it's just, it's kind of all, it's all sort of, our whole medical system is pretty, it can be pretty messed up, especially in the birth department.

But anyways, I feel like I rambled a lot on that.

Rambling is an indication of passion.

The question was, what was the question?

Why do providers not take the time to inform patients about the risks of interventions?

Like I said, broken system, money, time, convenience, efficiency, they're not used to it.

They don't see you postpartum.

They're not really concerned with your experience as much as they are with the outcome of a baby was born and the mom is still alive, you know what I mean?

But gosh, yeah, don't get me on my soapbox about this because if your only concern is that the mom and the baby both made it through childbirth and they're both alive at the end of it, like that's your only concern, like that's, we have to do so much better than that.

Anyways, moving on, fellow birth workers out there, I'm sure could rant about that for hours.

This is a really intriguing, melancholy question, but it's a very good one.

The question is, how can you have faith after a loss?

And I assume that this is referring to miscarriage.

Or stillbirth.

Correct, yeah.

This is hard.

It's always hard.

We live in a broken world, and God never promised us a comfortable life or an easy life.

And He told us we would have trouble, and He told us it would be hard.

So when bad things happen, it can't come as a surprise to us, but that doesn't make it any easier.

If we really believe in Jesus and love the Lord and are seeking His truth and His sovereignty above all, we have to go back to the fact that His ways are above our ways and His plans are above our plans and His thoughts are above our thoughts, and that He sees the whole picture, the big picture, and that He is working it all together for our good, even if it's painful in the moment.

Like, loss was not part of His original plan.

Like, He didn't plan that.

He didn't want that for us.

You know, He wanted the perfection that we had in the garden before the fall.

He wants what God's promised us at the end of Revelation with the new heaven and the new earth.

What we have right now on the in between is not something that His heart desires for us.

It's not something He ever wanted.

It's something that we're going through in the meantime.

But when we are going through these difficult things, through these tragedies, these losses, God is right there with us, crying just as hard as we are.

He feels it just as deeply as we do, and His heart is just as broken as ours is.

He cares about us, He sees us, He loves us, and He empathizes with us.

I mean, Jesus, I always think back.

I used to think, well, Jesus didn't know what it was like to push out a baby.

Well, Jesus didn't know what it was like to go through natural labor.

And then my head goes, wow, but would I ever want to go on the cross?

No, no, not in a million years.

I'd rather give birth naturally to 25 kids, you know?

So while maybe he didn't do that, he knows what it is to suffer, and he knows what it is to go through pain and to see his friends and family going through pain and to have lost himself when John the Baptist was killed.

And he knew John the Baptist was going to be killed, and that was his cousin, and he loved him, and he was such an integral part of his ministry.

But again, living in a fallen world, living in a broken world, God was using all of that together for the good of those who love him.

I personally, I mean, if you've heard all my birth stories, I have not experienced personally a loss.

And so I feel like in terms of a miscarriage or a stillbirth.

So I feel like it's hard for me to answer this question in a relatable way because I have not gone through it myself.

I have had countless friends and family go through it though.

And it breaks my heart every single time.

So no, I can't relate to what you're going through for those of you who have experienced this loss.

But I know so many other women out there can and have and still have faith in our Creator and still realize that God is good and that He loves us.

You have to go back to His Word.

You have to go back to His character.

You have to go back to see the story of His love for us from the beginning all the way to the end.

So last week at church, actually, I was thinking about answering this question, and we were talking about a similar subject at church.

And I know a lot of women out there who have experienced a loss are waiting on the redemption of that and waiting on another pregnancy, another baby.

Not that that ever replaces the loss, but they're waiting on new life.

And it doesn't always happen right away, and it doesn't always happen in a timely fashion.

And we were talking about stuff like that at church this past week, and our pastor brought up the question, why does God take so long sometimes, like in our minds?

And why doesn't He act as quickly as we want Him to?

And he gave some really good reasons.

And I'll just take you through a few of them, but one of them was that he said, sometimes we want, you know, what we want.

And he was saying a miracle, like we want the miracle or the answer to our prayer more than we want God.

And that was super convicting for me.

That was like what probably hit home the hardest for me, was sometimes I feel like when I'm praying, I am like only concerned and only praying about this thing that I want, and I'm not praying to know God better or to be more intimate with God.

It's like I could care less about what he thinks or what he's like, and I'm only concerned with my agenda and myself and this thing that I really, really want.

And it's like I want it more than I want him, you know?

And so when our pastor said that this past Sunday, I was like, oh man, thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Another thing he said was that sometimes we're not ready.

We're not, like, we think that we're ready.

We think that we're ready for what we want.

But maybe there's something else God is trying to work out in our life that we can't see or something that's coming that we don't know that's coming that would make whatever we're praying for, you know, really difficult.

And he's like watching out for us.

He also said, and this was hard too, sometimes God allows us to suffer for the sake of others, which, wow.

And then he brought up the example of Jesus.

Like Jesus suffered for our sake.

Jesus suffered for the sake of others.

And it's like if there's something that you went through in your life, he can use that, you know.

It's not that he, you know, necessarily wanted that suffering for you.

He didn't want you to go through that pain, but he can use that pain to help others.

You know, someone might come along in your life that you would have never been able to help them had you not gone through what you're going through, had you not gone through the loss that you've experienced.

But because you have, you're able to help them in a way that they would have never received without you going through that.

You know, God can use it as hard as it is, and as bad as it is, and as much as it is, you know, a product of this broken world that we live in, he can still use it for his good.

You know, like you said, we haven't experienced a loss personally, but I can only imagine how incredibly difficult it would be.

And different people handle that loss differently.

Some people see it as a cycle of life.

Some people see it as the loss of the child that could have been, and some people see it as the loss of the child that they had.

And so no matter how you look at it, it's just so difficult.

What I think is so redemptive about it, and this goes for just about any difficult situation that we would face or go through in life, is that God redeems things that are broken.

When you think about Jesus, his body was broken.

When you think about Jesus, he submitted himself to death, but through his obedience and his trust and his faith, there was a resurrection.

And thinking about the things in your life that are going to be a result of this loss, and thinking of the things that are going to happen in your life because this is a part of your testimony, the possibilities really are endless.

And hindsight is always 2020, of course, and it's hard to wait to see those moments.

But the amazing thing about it all is that even though this horrible thing has happened, that God is writing a story that is not just going to bring you out of the difficulty, but it's going to also bring others out of the difficulty.

And I mean, I think about, like, if...

I have some...

We have some friends who have had miscarriages.

If they had not had a miscarriage, they wouldn't have their current baby that is...

that was born.

That's the first thing I think about when I think about redemption, of course, and that's, you know, I'm sure what a lot of moms think about.

But I see these beautiful babies that they're, you know, the previous pregnancy right before them was a miscarriage.

And thinking about how this baby probably wouldn't be here if there wasn't that loss.

I would most certainly suggest to myself going through difficult times, and you listening who are going through difficult times, to ask God what He wants to do through it.

And the grieving process is necessary, and it should not be stunted.

But also, make sure we're asking the Lord what He wants to do through this.

And that's a hard question to ask.

All right.

Well, let's make a hard shift to something a little bit more lighthearted.

This question, I love this question.

How did you and your husband meet, Kayla?

Well, that is a very easy question to answer.

Okay, so we met in high school.

I was 15.

I was a freshman in high school, and he was a senior in high school, although neither one of us knew that the night that we met.

I was not knowingly cradle robbing.

And I wasn't knowingly trying to date a senior.

You're a gold digger.

So Chris was in a band, and he played guitar, and he sang in the band.

Like a very...

Let me just picture this for you.

A very emo band.

He had the hair, and he had the tight jeans before skinny jeans were popular, and he had...

He just had the look.

Anyways, I was going to the Battle of the Bands for our...

For our...

Was it our school or our city?

I guess it was just like our city, because it was...

I think it was a school district thing.

Yeah, the whole school district.

Battle of the Bands for the school district.

And so I went with some friends from dance team, and his band was there playing that night.

And I knew of some people in his band that my dance teammates were dating, actually.

I got there, and we saw you perform, and then I saw you walking around.

I guess I just noticed you, babe.

And then I saw you walking around all by yourself, and I was like, I wonder if he knows anybody here.

I wonder if he just doesn't know anybody besides his bandmates who are now probably hanging out or making out with their girlfriends or something.

So, my friend and I, I had a friend with me.

We walked up to you, and I just introduced myself.

And I was like, hey, I'm Kayla.

This is Lindsey.

We are, you know, we're friends with such and such who are dating the people in your band.

And you guys did a great job.

And like, who are you?

What's your name?

And that's just, that's how we met.

I just came up and introduced myself to you, because I thought you were good looking and talented and in all things.

I might be those things, but you are more of those things.

I remember that day, I was sitting, you were sitting watching one of the bands play, and I was kind of in the back, you were a little closer to the front, and then I saw you just looking back at me.

And I was like, well, she's like, she's pretty cute.

And she's, you know, I'm catching her looking at me.

Now, I'm not, I would not say that I'm a very forthcoming person.

No, you are not.

And so I just, we just kind of, you approached me, and just we started a conversation.

For sure.

And that was, that was really fun.

I'm a go-getter, babe.

You're a go-getter.

I'm a go-getter.

You went and got him.

And to give you an idea of when this was, this was 20 years ago, okay?

We have been officially together for 20 years as of February 21st, 2004, Battle of the Bands.

We exchanged screen names that night.

AOL Instant Messenger.

And that night after Battle of the Bands, we went home, and you gave me your guitar pick from that night.

Do you remember that?

Oh, I'm so nice.

You're such a sweet band guy.

You gave me your guitar pick.

That's what we're called, band guys.

Band guys.

And we went home, and we got on Instant Messenger, and we typed, chatted till 3 o'clock in the morning.

Yeah, I remember that.

And I remember the next day, I went to my friend's house, and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to tell you about this guy that I met.

We stayed up till 3 a.m.

on AOL, and oh, it was so amazing, and I like him so much, and I hope he likes me, and you know, teenage stuff.

So that's how we met.

That was it.

But I really enjoyed playing guitar for you.

Yes.

And I also really enjoyed saying, you know, we didn't have to say ASL.

Age, sex, location.

Oh, gosh.

Do you remember that?

No, I don't remember that.

A slash S slash L question mark?

Nope.

You don't remember that?

Nope.

I just remember like Coke or Pepsi.

Nah.

Like Beecher Mountains.

Like going through all those like little chocolate or vanilla.

All those questions.

And the cryptic away messages.

Oh my gosh, the away messages.

And your buddy icon.

If your parents let you leave the dial up on long enough for you to have an away message on anyways.

But anyways.

I'm really glad that we met.

I'm really glad we met too.

Yeah.

You're really cute.

You're cuter now than you were then.

Definitely.

Definitely cuter now than I was then.

Okay, but not as cute as I was on our wedding day.

I'll just say that.

Debatable, but I probably agree.

Okay, I mean, I am, you know, postpartum, in my sweats, late at night.

Anyway, anyways, anyways, anyways.

Okay.

I think it looks good.

So last question, last question I got, and I'll ask this question.

When are we going to share Indy's birth story?

Baby number five.

When are we going to do that?

Because he's four and a half months old now.

So I thought it would be fitting.

Actually, I just finished.

It's funny because he's currently crying right now.

He just started crying.

He's ready for his first nighttime feeding.

I'll be there in a second, but I promise we're almost done.

Oh, buddy.

So I actually recently just finished writing out his birth story, which is the soonest I have ever done it after having my child.

I usually wait several months, if not a year, to write their birth story.

I don't know why.

But I just finished it, and now I feel like that I've typed it all out and everything.

I'm ready to talk about it, I think.

At least with you, babe.

At least with you.

Yeah, sometimes it takes a while.

Yeah.

I had to process this one more than any of my other ones.

So, not that it was bad.

It wasn't that everything was fine, but it was more processing for me than usual.

It was different than we were anticipating.

So, that being said, we are going to record it soon-ish, and we are going to release it, I figured, on his six-month, I guess, birthday, his little half birthday.

So when he's about six months old.

So he's four and a half, well, he's four and a half when we're recording the, yeah, yeah.

Okay, yeah, he's about four and a half months old.

He's almost five months.

So he'll be six months on April 30th, and I believe the closest Monday to April 30th is...

April 29th.

April 29th, great.

So we'll release Indy's birth story on April 29th.

So, tune in to hear that.

It's probably not what you expect.

I'll just say that.

So I can't just read what to expect when you're expecting and know what it's about?

Definitely not.

All right, babe, this is fun.

And even though I'm super tired, I love you, and I'm looking forward to recording another episode with you when we talk about Indy's birth story.

You're such a champ.

Go get some sleep.

Well, I'm going to go nurse the baby first, and then maybe I'll get some sleep.

That's what I meant.

Thanks again for joining us today.

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